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GDT: BAL Ravens @ PIT Steelers (Wk 11)
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How many sacks will Suggs have?
0 sks- Probably have a batted down pass, nothing more
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
1 sk- He gets one when we're in need of a key play.
45%
 45%  [ 9 ]
2 sks- That average Steelers OL cannot stop Suggs from dominating.
30%
 30%  [ 6 ]
3 sks- Suggs goes complete HAM on them and puts himself in the CPOTY race.
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 20

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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravens_rool28 wrote:
1. You may have a new offense, but it's not like there isn't plenty of tape on it
2. Improvement from horrid = ? Plus, as was mentioned, Big Ben masks the play a bit
3. Home Field means nothing in this rivalry, IMO
4. When Cam is on, he's a great play caller... He's just off way too much.
5. Our D doesn't have something to prove?


1. It's not even fully installed, plus it's different this week because of the capabilities or lack thereof by Leftwich. The Ravens don't know what to expect so if they come out playing this Steelers team like what they seen on film it's going to be a long day. I'd say it's going to take at least a quarter or more before the Ravens figure out how the Steelers are attacking them. That's not to say the Steelers offense doesn't do it's fair share to help the Ravens during the process either.

2. The OL was never horrid just miss used by the previous OC. The Steelers pretty much have the same players but have been playing better I don't think that's a coincidence. Add to the fact that they are starting a rookie RT and it makes it more impressive to me.

3. It shouldn't but the Ravens haven't been great on the road this season.

4. Cam is a good OC, but a average play caller. Everybody knows the strength of the Ravens offense is Ray Rice. But for some reason he won't touch the ball for long stretches at a time. I'd say Haley is a better play caller and OC. Haley has done great things offensively with far less talented teams and when given a good offense help his team to a SB.

5. The Ravens defense does have a lot to prove, but it's the "old and slow" Steelers defense who continually has to prove itself.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:

1. It's not even fully installed, plus it's different this week because of the capabilities or lack thereof by Leftwich. The Ravens don't know what to expect so if they come out playing this Steelers team like what they seen on film it's going to be a long day. I'd say it's going to take at least a quarter or more before the Ravens figure out how the Steelers are attacking them. That's not to say the Steelers offense doesn't do it's fair share to help the Ravens during the process either.


We could say the same about Baltimore's defense. There's still hope guys!
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
SteelProven wrote:

1. It's not even fully installed, plus it's different this week because of the capabilities or lack thereof by Leftwich. The Ravens don't know what to expect so if they come out playing this Steelers team like what they seen on film it's going to be a long day. I'd say it's going to take at least a quarter or more before the Ravens figure out how the Steelers are attacking them. That's not to say the Steelers offense doesn't do it's fair share to help the Ravens during the process either.


We could say the same about Baltimore's defense. There's still hope guys!



Just a bunch of different players making plays from what I've seen. I've watched 2 Ravens games this year Browns and the Eagles game. Both times the defense looked pretty similar to the defense used in previous season. I mean don't get me wrong every team is rounding into form. But that's like me saying the Steelers defense is fully installed. Which believe it or not might not be.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
Just a bunch of different players making plays from what I've seen. I've watched 2 Ravens games this year Browns and the Eagles game. Both times the defense looked pretty similar to the defense used in previous season. I mean don't get me wrong every team is rounding into form. But that's like me saying the Steelers defense is fully installed. Which believe it or not might not be.




I realize that you probably don't watch the Ravens much outside of the times the play the Steelers but that's not the case at all. Maybe closer to when Mattison was running the defense but not quite as good... Crying or Very sad
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
SteelProven wrote:

1. It's not even fully installed, plus it's different this week because of the capabilities or lack thereof by Leftwich. The Ravens don't know what to expect so if they come out playing this Steelers team like what they seen on film it's going to be a long day. I'd say it's going to take at least a quarter or more before the Ravens figure out how the Steelers are attacking them. That's not to say the Steelers offense doesn't do it's fair share to help the Ravens during the process either.


We could say the same about Baltimore's defense. There's still hope guys!



Just a bunch of different players making plays from what I've seen. I've watched 2 Ravens games this year Browns and the Eagles game. Both times the defense looked pretty similar to the defense used in previous season. I mean don't get me wrong every team is rounding into form. But that's like me saying the Steelers defense is fully installed. Which believe it or not might not be.


Well whatever game film you watched, I hope the steelers watch the same thing because then they'd have no idea what defense we actually run this year.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
Defensive TOP and 3rd down% are basically saying the same thing. If you can't get off the field, you're going to be on the field longer. I stated that, that has been an Achilles heal already.

But since Suggs return- just eye balling it (too lazy to look up stats on my phone) I'd say we've improved our 3rd down% by a good 5-10 percent... Which isn't to say we improved our average over the season... Which would take much longer to impact, but just on a game by game basis a 7% improvement probably is about what we've been able to accomplish.

Granted, we've played the Browns and Raiders, but lets not under value the QB position here. Leftwich is no franchise level QB. He's worse than both Carson Palmer and Brandon Weeden. With Leftwich at QB I would say the Steelers offense will be comparable to the level the Browns have displayed. The Browns also were able to keep Weeden clean. Leftwich doesn't have the benefit of knowing one of the best LTs in football protecting his blindside against Suggs.

The Browns are a top 10 defensive unit as well, one that creates more turnovers than the Steelers. If we could survive the Browns- I have faith in our ability to handle the Leftwich led Steelers offense. I think the Steelers main chance is if this is for some reason the game where Flacco decides to crap the bed and Cam Cameron decides not to put together a competent gameplan.

Personally I give the Steelers an outside chance. Something like 24-16, Ravens. Maybe a 35-40% chance of winning.


Leftwich is comparable to Palmer and better than Weeden. The Steelers have a far better overall offense then either of those teams beyond the QBs.

The Ravens are a good offense and it's going to take the Steelers playing one of there better games to help pull this one out. But even though the Steelers haven't been creating turnovers and generating sacks like I'm accustomed to. That just shows me that they are playing amazing team defense.

Cool story bro. Laughing

You MIGHT have had a case had you stated that he was comparable to Weeden. But it's clear to me you haven't watched enough NFL games this year for you to consistently draw upon these kinds of conclusions. Carson Palmer has arguably been a top 10 QB this season. The guy is making plays, but has such a poor team at his disposal... A team that is dealing with a mass of injuries particularly on the offensive side... And yet the dude is balling out and getting his.

And Weeden, he's better than Leftwich as well. He has lesser weapons at the WR position and has still put up some big time games. Weeden has had a lot of weight on his shoulders to carry the Browns offense and he's been inconsistent. But he's no worse than Leftwich was years ago in Jacksonville- back before he had to settle for a backup gig and has declined even further with age. But I could conceive of an argument for Leftwich in this case. But no way he's better than Palmer.. That was utter nonsense.

And in terms of your offense being far better. Perhaps it is when completely healthy. But Brown is out. The Browns did have Flash Gordon who is probably in between Wallace and Sanders in terms of ability to this point. They have Greg Little who is worse than Sanders but the Browns also have a better OL. And like I said, the QB is key. Leftwich is an no better a QB than Weeden.

And I find it funny that you keep mentioning this "new" offense being a positive for you guys and a serious disadvantage that our coaches will be virtually unable to handle, yet you've forgot to include the part about how new isn't always better- the part about how Lefty likely has seen far less snaps in practice in this "new" offense than Big Ben and will likely have far less of a command on it then someone with plenty of experience. He's seen only a few in-game snaps. It's not as if he's been world beating. You have an average QB (at best) that is new to an offense and will be limited.

It's not as if having Lefty will change what the Ravens have to prepare for. Lefty is far more limited in what he can do. So the Ravens will analyze the offense Ben has run and see which of those plays would be too difficult for Left to handle and scratch them out.

Plus we've seen a Todd Haley offense before. He's been coaching Kansas City, we've played the Chiefs the past few seasons. If we want to see what plays he likes to call for a limited QB we have to look no further than over there and look at a Matt Cassell. And you say the Ravens aren't forcing turnovers? Think again. We're 6th in the league in interceptions with 10... With two returned for touchdowns. Leftwich's slow release couple with Ed Reed patrolling the deep field could certainly see a big time interception or two... Our defense while it will likely bend over the air WILL force some turnovers as well.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
Just a bunch of different players making plays from what I've seen. I've watched 2 Ravens games this year Browns and the Eagles game. Both times the defense looked pretty similar to the defense used in previous season. I mean don't get me wrong every team is rounding into form. But that's like me saying the Steelers defense is fully installed. Which believe it or not might not be.




I realize that you probably don't watch the Ravens much outside of the times the play the Steelers but that's not the case at all. Maybe closer to when Mattison was running the defense but not quite as good... Crying or Very sad

Yeah. I didn't really understand that. Our defense is pretty different in comparison to last year. The corners are less aggressive. Under Pagano we ran a lot of off man, but we ran more press man than this year. And the amount of cushion our corners gave was much less. We opted to crowd their space and have Ed Reed clean up anything deep. It's why we had so few passing touchdowns come our way. Our corners this season instead opt to give a larger cushion to prevent the big play, we push Reed closer to the line to challenge the intermediate as opposed to challenging the deep threat. This has led to Reed getting his hands on more balls, but has also led to our corners allowing more short completions and thus "bending" down the field until we get into the redzone and attempt to play a little more aggressively.

In terms of pass rushing we've opted to run much more stunts than in years past. This served to get more pressure earlier in the season when Suggs was out, but when picked up we've had pass rushers not in position to get their hands up to challenge passing lanes. That's also had an affect on our ability to cover TEs. With Suggs back, we've run less stunts, though I'm still waiting to see if that is going to remain the pattern or if this is just a limited occurrence.

We've appeared to blitz our ILBs more than usual as well, but I haven't exactly paid as much attention to that spot as with others tbqh. I think this has been the main reason for TEs going off. As opposed to consistently putting our ILBs on TEs we're blitzing and hopping we get the pressure on the QB before the TE gets open... It hasn't worked often. We'll see if Suggs returning changes how we execute in this regard. Still waiting to see if its a trend.

So basically what we've seen this season has been pretty different. I'm kind of confused as to how anyone watching this defense could even make such a baffling statement. But whatevs...
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drd23


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ravens_rool28 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
How can you say that this is NOT the strongest part of our defense:



I mean C'MON MAN! GOAT!

And handsome too! He's dreammy... Drool

Wait, what..?? Anxious


It's almost like he's just staring into your soul....like he can see right through me, into the deepest depths of my being.

Either that or he just doesn't know what "1, 2, 3...smile" means.
I think we should all make this our avatar in honor of our GOAT future HoF CB.

Ravens: 28
Those-who-shall-not-be-named: 10


I'm in. If anyone wants to resize that and PM me the resized Avi I will sport it Very Happy

Done Laughing


Code:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/nYFXG.png[/IMG]

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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
Defensive TOP and 3rd down% are basically saying the same thing. If you can't get off the field, you're going to be on the field longer. I stated that, that has been an Achilles heal already.

But since Suggs return- just eye balling it (too lazy to look up stats on my phone) I'd say we've improved our 3rd down% by a good 5-10 percent... Which isn't to say we improved our average over the season... Which would take much longer to impact, but just on a game by game basis a 7% improvement probably is about what we've been able to accomplish.

Granted, we've played the Browns and Raiders, but lets not under value the QB position here. Leftwich is no franchise level QB. He's worse than both Carson Palmer and Brandon Weeden. With Leftwich at QB I would say the Steelers offense will be comparable to the level the Browns have displayed. The Browns also were able to keep Weeden clean. Leftwich doesn't have the benefit of knowing one of the best LTs in football protecting his blindside against Suggs.

The Browns are a top 10 defensive unit as well, one that creates more turnovers than the Steelers. If we could survive the Browns- I have faith in our ability to handle the Leftwich led Steelers offense. I think the Steelers main chance is if this is for some reason the game where Flacco decides to crap the bed and Cam Cameron decides not to put together a competent gameplan.

Personally I give the Steelers an outside chance. Something like 24-16, Ravens. Maybe a 35-40% chance of winning.


Leftwich is comparable to Palmer and better than Weeden. The Steelers have a far better overall offense then either of those teams beyond the QBs.

The Ravens are a good offense and it's going to take the Steelers playing one of there better games to help pull this one out. But even though the Steelers haven't been creating turnovers and generating sacks like I'm accustomed to. That just shows me that they are playing amazing team defense.

Cool story bro. Laughing

You MIGHT have had a case had you stated that he was comparable to Weeden. But it's clear to me you haven't watched enough NFL games this year for you to consistently draw upon these kinds of conclusions. Carson Palmer has arguably been a top 10 QB this season. The guy is making plays, but has such a poor team at his disposal... A team that is dealing with a mass of injuries particularly on the offensive side... And yet the dude is balling out and getting his.

And Weeden, he's better than Leftwich as well. He has lesser weapons at the WR position and has still put up some big time games. Weeden has had a lot of weight on his shoulders to carry the Browns offense and he's been inconsistent. But he's no worse than Leftwich was years ago in Jacksonville- back before he had to settle for a backup gig and has declined even further with age. But I could conceive of an argument for Leftwich in this case. But no way he's better than Palmer.. That was utter nonsense.

And in terms of your offense being far better. Perhaps it is when completely healthy. But Brown is out. The Browns did have Flash Gordon who is probably in between Wallace and Sanders in terms of ability to this point. They have Greg Little who is worse than Sanders but the Browns also have a better OL. And like I said, the QB is key. Leftwich is an no better a QB than Weeden.

And I find it funny that you keep mentioning this "new" offense being a positive for you guys and a serious disadvantage that our coaches will be virtually unable to handle, yet you've forgot to include the part about how new isn't always better- the part about how Lefty likely has seen far less snaps in practice in this "new" offense than Big Ben and will likely have far less of a command on it then someone with plenty of experience. He's seen only a few in-game snaps. It's not as if he's been world beating. You have an average QB (at best) that is new to an offense and will be limited.

It's not as if having Lefty will change what the Ravens have to prepare for. Lefty is far more limited in what he can do. So the Ravens will analyze the offense Ben has run and see which of those plays would be too difficult for Left to handle and scratch them out.

Plus we've seen a Todd Haley offense before. He's been coaching Kansas City, we've played the Chiefs the past few seasons. If we want to see what plays he likes to call for a limited QB we have to look no further than over there and look at a Matt Cassell. And you say the Ravens aren't forcing turnovers? Think again. We're 6th in the league in interceptions with 10... With two returned for touchdowns. Leftwich's slow release couple with Ed Reed patrolling the deep field could certainly see a big time interception or two... Our defense while it will likely bend over the air WILL force some turnovers as well.


Leftwich's biggest negative is that he's Bernie Kosar as far as mobility is concerned. Which is one of the main reason's he's never started 16 games and was ousted out of Jacksonville.

This game tonight will show everybody whether or not the Steelers can remain contenders. Also it will let the Steelers know if they can rest Ben longer maybe till after the second Ravens game.

Everything I've mentioned is based of Leftwich completing at least 60% w/ out any turnovers and the Steelers out gaining the Ravens on the ground.

I can't say anything about the Ravens defense outside of the the few things I saw in the games I've mentioned. I believe a lot of changes may have to do with the personnel on the field. E. Reeds shoulder, Ray Lewis injury, Terrel Suggs injury, Haloti Ngata injury all have played a huge role in what kind of defense the Ravens can and can not play. The Steelers will challenge the Ravens vertically because they have a player that has the speed to beat coverage. But they will still attack the Ravens horizontally because they don't have anybody that can guard H. Miller.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:

Leftwich's biggest negative is that he's Bernie Kosar as far as mobility is concerned. Which is one of the main reason's he's never started 16 games and was ousted out of Jacksonville.

This game tonight will show everybody whether or not the Steelers can remain contenders. Also it will let the Steelers know if they can rest Ben longer maybe till after the second Ravens game.

Everything I've mentioned is based of Leftwich completing at least 60% w/ out any turnovers and the Steelers out gaining the Ravens on the ground.

I can't say anything about the Ravens defense outside of the the few things I saw in the games I've mentioned. I believe a lot of changes may have to do with the personnel on the field. E. Reeds shoulder, Ray Lewis injury, Terrel Suggs injury, Haloti Ngata injury all have played a huge role in what kind of defense the Ravens can and can not play. The Steelers will challenge the Ravens vertically because they have a player that has the speed to beat coverage. But they will still attack the Ravens horizontally because they don't have anybody that can guard H. Miller.

And that's a lot to be basing things on. Lefty hasn't started an NFL game in what? 2-3 years or so? He probably hasn't taken many first team snaps. He's new to a system and should still be trying to settle into that system within game conditions.

You're basically just looking at Leftwich's career numbers and coming to the conclusion that, that's the kind of numbers he's going to put up. That's ridiculous. His "decent" years were in Jacksonville in a completely different offensive scheme. Matt Cassel was another guy who didn't throw interceptions... until he played the Ravens... and now he throws them all the time.

Furthermore, the 2nd part, I think is serving to underestimate our team as well. Your rushing attack, hasn't been as efficient a product as we've displayed. Our run defense has also been more stout on a per carry basis. So not only is Leftwich going to look better than Carson Palmer, but now we're going to get destroyed by your running game as well? I mean why should we even show up. Sounds like we're going to get thumped by 30 points. Good thing Bens' not playing or it would've been 50.

In terms of the defense, even in those games the things I've outlined were true. The cushion was back further, we ran more stunts, and we've tended to keep Reed up into the intermediate fields. This has been the case for this season. The only thing that's changed for the Ravens has been the positive move by Peas/Harbaugh to take Kemo out of the starting lineup.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ravens_rool28 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
How can you say that this is NOT the strongest part of our defense:



I mean C'MON MAN! GOAT!

And handsome too! He's dreammy... Drool

Wait, what..?? Anxious


It's almost like he's just staring into your soul....like he can see right through me, into the deepest depths of my being.

Either that or he just doesn't know what "1, 2, 3...smile" means.
I think we should all make this our avatar in honor of our GOAT future HoF CB.

Ravens: 28
Those-who-shall-not-be-named: 10


I'm in. If anyone wants to resize that and PM me the resized Avi I will sport it Very Happy

Done Laughing


Code:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/nYFXG.png[/IMG]

Boom.
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BaltimoreTerp wrote:
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ I'd participate, but it's just... I sort of have this FF8 theme going on... kind of don't want to mess that up... definitely has nothing to do with the fact that it's a Cary Williams avy... Liar
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
Leftwich is comparable to Palmer and better than Weeden.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
^^^ I'd participate, but it's just... I sort of have this FF8 theme going on... kind of don't want to mess that up... definitely has nothing to do with the fact that it's a Cary Williams avy... Liar


PARTICIPATE OR ELSE!
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
SteelProven wrote:

Leftwich's biggest negative is that he's Bernie Kosar as far as mobility is concerned. Which is one of the main reason's he's never started 16 games and was ousted out of Jacksonville.

This game tonight will show everybody whether or not the Steelers can remain contenders. Also it will let the Steelers know if they can rest Ben longer maybe till after the second Ravens game.

Everything I've mentioned is based of Leftwich completing at least 60% w/ out any turnovers and the Steelers out gaining the Ravens on the ground.

I can't say anything about the Ravens defense outside of the the few things I saw in the games I've mentioned. I believe a lot of changes may have to do with the personnel on the field. E. Reeds shoulder, Ray Lewis injury, Terrel Suggs injury, Haloti Ngata injury all have played a huge role in what kind of defense the Ravens can and can not play. The Steelers will challenge the Ravens vertically because they have a player that has the speed to beat coverage. But they will still attack the Ravens horizontally because they don't have anybody that can guard H. Miller.

And that's a lot to be basing things on. Lefty hasn't started an NFL game in what? 2-3 years or so? He probably hasn't taken many first team snaps. He's new to a system and should still be trying to settle into that system within game conditions.

You're basically just looking at Leftwich's career numbers and coming to the conclusion that, that's the kind of numbers he's going to put up. That's ridiculous. His "decent" years were in Jacksonville in a completely different offensive scheme. Matt Cassel was another guy who didn't throw interceptions... until he played the Ravens... and now he throws them all the time.

Furthermore, the 2nd part, I think is serving to underestimate our team as well. Your rushing attack, hasn't been as efficient a product as we've displayed. Our run defense has also been more stout on a per carry basis. So not only is Leftwich going to look better than Carson Palmer, but now we're going to get destroyed by your running game as well? I mean why should we even show up. Sounds like we're going to get thumped by 30 points. Good thing Bens' not playing or it would've been 50.

In terms of the defense, even in those games the things I've outlined were true. The cushion was back further, we ran more stunts, and we've tended to keep Reed up into the intermediate fields. This has been the case for this season. The only thing that's changed for the Ravens has been the positive move by Peas/Harbaugh to take Kemo out of the starting lineup.


Nobody is underestimating anybody and why are you getting defensive I've kept my comments pretty biased I believe. The Ravens and the Steelers are the same this season. The difference is when the Ravens struggled they still found ways to win. But when the Steelers struggled they've found ways to lose. Which is the difference between these two teams. The Ravens have a lot more to lose today then the Steelers as nobody is given them much of a chance with a seldom used, slow footed, long throwing release, injury prone QB.

Leftwich has never been a accurate thrower of the ball and his career percentage of maybe mid 50's proves it. But shorter more control passes with some shots deep to keep the defense honest can help him and the offense. All Leftwich has to do is once or twice hit M. Wallace with passes over 30+ yds. Big arm QB teamed up with one of the leagues best deep threats. The Ravens have the same combination with Torrey and Joe. The difference between the Ravens and the Steelers is that the Steelers CB's are healthy which could aide them a tad bit more defensively.

I'm stating things the Steelers have to do to win. I never once mentioned they'd win. The trend can be broken today and the Ravens for once in a game without Big Ben can blow the Steelers out. But the same thing could happen and the Steelers could squeak out a win in a game they normally lose.
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