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GDT: BAL Ravens @ PIT Steelers (Wk 11)
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How many sacks will Suggs have?
0 sks- Probably have a batted down pass, nothing more
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
1 sk- He gets one when we're in need of a key play.
45%
 45%  [ 9 ]
2 sks- That average Steelers OL cannot stop Suggs from dominating.
30%
 30%  [ 6 ]
3 sks- Suggs goes complete HAM on them and puts himself in the CPOTY race.
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 20

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Anubiz


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: .... Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Flacco played THAT badly. Not good? Sure. But with the OL not looking great (I think they looked better than they were due to getting the ball out rather quickly, but they weren't too bad), no run game whatsoever, Torrey being blanketed all night, and Pitta out -- Joe still made some plays, but more importantly he was careful with the ball. These games have always come down to which team makes the least amount of mistakes and Joe spent the entire night taking what Pittsburgh gave him. When he had a guy open, he generally hit them save for a few times. He made enough plays to keep us on the field, but didn't force anything (aside from that throw into 2x coverage, WTF) and we won essentially because of that. We didn't allow the Steelers to get their classic big play and we rolled out of there with a win. Could he have played better? Absolutely, but I'm personally not sitting here like "Dang Joe sucked" but more like "Hey, at least he was safe with the ball like we needed him to be". How many times have we seen us with a lead and Joe start flinging it everywhere and make a turnover? It's a breath of fresh air to see him able to protect the ball when we need him to.


I think though that's a big problem for this team moving forward though.

This was a game where Flacco should've outplayed Leftwich to a large extent. This was a game I expected the Ravens' offense - despite it's road inconsistencies becoming a legitimate concern/habbit - to take control of this game and it never did.

It looked like the task for this game was for Flacco to not lose it instead of going out there and winning it. I'm not for him forcing throws when they aren't there, and a ton and I mean a ton of credit to Pittsburgh's defense to give the Ravens' a different look on taking Torrey away for the game and completely shutting down Rice in the run game, but Flacco has got to do more than just "manage the game."

He's a 5th year QB looking for an extension and if he can't assume the role of going out and winning big games like this when the opposition is weakened without their starting QB. I expect a better, more emphatic, more authoritative performance.

Am I happy with this win? Yes, but I think with the manner in which this game was won, Pittsburgh should have the confidence that despite a huge special teams error, this game was a game they lost more than a game the Ravens won.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: .... Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
For a self-professed upper echelon quarterback I think it's fair to expect more from him than, "well, at least he didn't turn the ball over," and I think it's going to be important for him to put a big game together on the road to build some confidence in him and the offense before this season is up. I would simply grade him as an incomplete last night, or a C: He was dull and average and luckily that was enough for one night.


And this right here is my biggest issue with Flacco. It's pretty obvious by now he's just not "there" yet. We can't count on Flacco to bring his A game every game and show up to big games like last night saying "Flacco WILL be a reason we win this game!", but instead it's "As long as Flacco doesn't completely self-destruct, we stand a chance." and luckily last night he didn't self destruct.

I mean looking back at the game I wouldn't say Flacco was neutral, I would say he was 75/25 negative. He made several poor throws into double coverage, several completely missed throws, and several missed reads, but then does a great job of taking a sack late in the game. But meh, I don't know. We NEED Joe to start taking control and stepping up in these games. The defense just won't be able to hold the fort down any longer, and it's Joe's time to step up.

EDIT: Lastly, this was supposed to be a game where we had the clear QB advantage, and honestly it didn't seem that way at all. Leftwich was actually making throws down the field and aside from his rib and shoulder being injured, he really outplayed Flacco, by a far margin actually. How Joe fails to outplay QB's like Dennis Dixon and Byron Leftwich, and then in the next breath utters himself elite will never cease to amaze me.
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Dark ops


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A win is a win especially when its against your biggest rival . 8-2 and on to san diego .....
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Anubiz


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: .... Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
For a self-professed upper echelon quarterback I think it's fair to expect more from him than, "well, at least he didn't turn the ball over," and I think it's going to be important for him to put a big game together on the road to build some confidence in him and the offense before this season is up. I would simply grade him as an incomplete last night, or a C: He was dull and average and luckily that was enough for one night.


And this right here is my biggest issue with Flacco. It's pretty obvious by now he's just not "there" yet. We can't count on Flacco to bring his A game every game and show up to big games like last night saying "Flacco WILL be a reason we win this game!", but instead it's "As long as Flacco doesn't completely self-destruct, we stand a chance." and luckily last night he didn't self destruct.

I mean looking back at the game I wouldn't say Flacco was neutral, I would say he was 75/25 negative. He made several poor throws into double coverage, several completely missed throws, and several missed reads, but then does a great job of taking a sack late in the game. But meh, I don't know. We NEED Joe to start taking control and stepping up in these games. The defense just won't be able to hold the fort down any longer, and it's Joe's time to step up.

EDIT: Lastly, this was supposed to be a game where we had the clear QB advantage, and honestly it didn't seem that way at all. Leftwich was actually making throws down the field and aside from his rib and shoulder being injured, he really outplayed Flacco, by a far margin actually. How Joe fails to outplay QB's like Dennis Dixon and Byron Leftwich, and then in the next breath utters himself elite will never cease to amaze me.


Exactly how I feel.
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dcarey20


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, I think we've got to look at some other things that were happening before we go and blame this entire lackluster performance on Joe himself.

Keenan Lewis and Ike Taylor were both playing really good games, Taylor in particular as he was shutting down Torrey for the entire game. Taking away Torrey and the deep threat he provides dumbs down our playbook, and also makes it tougher for Boldin to get open (who already struggles to get seperation). Furthermore, Pitta went out of the game early, he's arguably Flacco's favorite target and essentially our slot receiver. And finally, Ray Rice had no where to run all night long and that obviously has a similar negative effect to Torrey Smith being shut down.

Joe obviously wasn't great, but Joe isn't the only one at fault. We don't have the advantage of seeing downfield coverages most of the time. Our running game was stagnant, receivers weren't getting open, and one of our main offensive weapons went out 5 mins into the game. Credit the Steelers D.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have liked to see Tandon Doss get more reps after Pitta went down. We just went forward with the gameplan with Dickson sliding into Pitta's spot when it's clear Flacco doesn't really trust Dickson to make the sort of tough catches in traffic that he is willing to try with Pitta. If you react to Pitta's injury by moving away from TE sets to spreading the offense out more with Doss and Boldin filling Pitta's void over the middle, I think we would have seen a better performance, not to mention it's important to give Doss some meaningful reps and get him more involved in this offense IMO.

Beyond any of our receiving threats though, the biggest problem with the offense, as it has been all season in road contests, was the offensive line. They have communication issues and even with Birk changing up the snap count, Pittsburgh was constantly getting the jump on them and giving Flacco no time to throw the football. Oher and Osemele surprisingly did a good job on the edges containing Harrison and Woodley, but our interior line was manhandled all night. That Flacco was *only* sacked twice said more about his ability to get the ball out early, but the pass protection kept Flacco jittery in the pocket all night. Even our more quick-hitting pass plays had trouble developing because the receivers struggled to create separation and Flacco was looking to get the ball out as soon as he took a snap.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcarey20 wrote:
For me, I think we've got to look at some other things that were happening before we go and blame this entire lackluster performance on Joe himself.

Keenan Lewis and Ike Taylor were both playing really good games, Taylor in particular as he was shutting down Torrey for the entire game. Taking away Torrey and the deep threat he provides dumbs down our playbook, and also makes it tougher for Boldin to get open (who already struggles to get seperation). Furthermore, Pitta went out of the game early, he's arguably Flacco's favorite target and essentially our slot receiver. And finally, Ray Rice had no where to run all night long and that obviously has a similar negative effect to Torrey Smith being shut down.

Joe obviously wasn't great, but Joe isn't the only one at fault. We don't have the advantage of seeing downfield coverages most of the time. Our running game was stagnant, receivers weren't getting open, and one of our main offensive weapons went out 5 mins into the game. Credit the Steelers D.


Well I mean honestly it's not hard to have a good game against us when the only routes we run are curl routes, out routes and 9 routes...

Boldin was getting separation early in the game and Lebeau adjusted and took him away and Cam kept trying to run that same scheme the entire game...Typical Cam.
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Anubiz


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
dcarey20 wrote:
For me, I think we've got to look at some other things that were happening before we go and blame this entire lackluster performance on Joe himself.

Keenan Lewis and Ike Taylor were both playing really good games, Taylor in particular as he was shutting down Torrey for the entire game. Taking away Torrey and the deep threat he provides dumbs down our playbook, and also makes it tougher for Boldin to get open (who already struggles to get seperation). Furthermore, Pitta went out of the game early, he's arguably Flacco's favorite target and essentially our slot receiver. And finally, Ray Rice had no where to run all night long and that obviously has a similar negative effect to Torrey Smith being shut down.

Joe obviously wasn't great, but Joe isn't the only one at fault. We don't have the advantage of seeing downfield coverages most of the time. Our running game was stagnant, receivers weren't getting open, and one of our main offensive weapons went out 5 mins into the game. Credit the Steelers D.


Well I mean honestly it's not hard to have a good game against us when the only routes we run are curl routes, out routes and 9 routes...

Boldin was getting separation early in the game and Lebeau adjusted and took him away and Cam kept trying to run that same scheme the entire game...Typical Cam.


I'm starting to think you and I will be one in the same on our opinions a lot.

The route-combinations/variety this offense shows is so predictable and so limited.

I think Cam is doing an absolute injustice to Torrey's development in really not letting him run more of the route tree.

My real problem with this team is that, even with the burners we have in Torrey/Jacoby, teams who play bump'n'run coverage really limit this team's passing game. It's almost incredible how badly we do against bump'n'run. It's reminiscent of how a Cover 2 defense would just have this offense poop it's pants.

I don't know if Cam just can't make adjustments during a game, or if he really is just the absolute worst at life.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: .... Reply with quote

Anubiz wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Flacco played THAT badly. Not good? Sure. But with the OL not looking great (I think they looked better than they were due to getting the ball out rather quickly, but they weren't too bad), no run game whatsoever, Torrey being blanketed all night, and Pitta out -- Joe still made some plays, but more importantly he was careful with the ball. These games have always come down to which team makes the least amount of mistakes and Joe spent the entire night taking what Pittsburgh gave him. When he had a guy open, he generally hit them save for a few times. He made enough plays to keep us on the field, but didn't force anything (aside from that throw into 2x coverage, WTF) and we won essentially because of that. We didn't allow the Steelers to get their classic big play and we rolled out of there with a win. Could he have played better? Absolutely, but I'm personally not sitting here like "Dang Joe sucked" but more like "Hey, at least he was safe with the ball like we needed him to be". How many times have we seen us with a lead and Joe start flinging it everywhere and make a turnover? It's a breath of fresh air to see him able to protect the ball when we need him to.


I think though that's a big problem for this team moving forward though.

This was a game where Flacco should've outplayed Leftwich to a large extent. This was a game I expected the Ravens' offense - despite it's road inconsistencies becoming a legitimate concern/habbit - to take control of this game and it never did.

It looked like the task for this game was for Flacco to not lose it instead of going out there and winning it. I'm not for him forcing throws when they aren't there, and a ton and I mean a ton of credit to Pittsburgh's defense to give the Ravens' a different look on taking Torrey away for the game and completely shutting down Rice in the run game, but Flacco has got to do more than just "manage the game."

He's a 5th year QB looking for an extension and if he can't assume the role of going out and winning big games like this when the opposition is weakened without their starting QB. I expect a better, more emphatic, more authoritative performance.

Am I happy with this win? Yes, but I think with the manner in which this game was won, Pittsburgh should have the confidence that despite a huge special teams error, this game was a game they lost more than a game the Ravens won.


To be fair though -- Flacco isn't playing against Leftwich, so the fact that Ben was out would have no impact on Flacco. I too wish Joe would have played better, but the Steelers defense, despite missing Troy, is still top 3 in the league. They took out our best WR, our best pass catching TE left with an injury, and they shut down our run game. So, while I too wish Joe played better, I certainly think given all of those circumstances he still played "ok" and by being careful with the ball, he put us in a position to win.

I'm not trying to defend him and say he played a great game -- he didn't. But I think in context he certainly didn't play horrible. I agree that if we want to win these types of games in the playoffs he'll have to play better, but we've seen Joe typically be able to step up when he's called to do so and I don't believe we would have seen any different last night if the scenario called for it.

As GTR always says, Joe is the hardest QB to figure out -- when the game is on the line he typically comes through, yet when we're up he typically craps the bed. Last night we saw us having a "decent" lead (in terms of Ravens/Steelers games, 6 points is a "decent" lead) and Joe continued to play smart and not crap the bed which is something we don't often see -- I look at that as a positive, personally.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:

Beyond any of our receiving threats though, the biggest problem with the offense, as it has been all season in road contests, was the offensive line. They have communication issues and even with Birk changing up the snap count, Pittsburgh was constantly getting the jump on them and giving Flacco no time to throw the football. Oher and Osemele surprisingly did a good job on the edges containing Harrison and Woodley, but our interior line was manhandled all night. That Flacco was *only* sacked twice said more about his ability to get the ball out early, but the pass protection kept Flacco jittery in the pocket all night. Even our more quick-hitting pass plays had trouble developing because the receivers struggled to create separation and Flacco was looking to get the ball out as soon as he took a snap.


Yep -- most people will point to last night and say the OL looked pretty good, when in fact they really didn't. Our scheme made them look a lot better than they were, and also made Flacco look a bit worse than he actually was. Several of the overthrows were simply throwing the ball away because the WR didn't get enough separation but with how Joe likes to throw the ball away (which absoutely pisses me off when he does it downfield) is to throw the ball still relatively close "just in case" something magic happens.
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Anubiz


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: .... Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:


To be fair though -- Flacco isn't playing against Leftwich, so the fact that Ben was out would have no impact on Flacco. I too wish Joe would have played better, but the Steelers defense, despite missing Troy, is still top 3 in the league. They took out our best WR, our best pass catching TE left with an injury, and they shut down our run game. So, while I too wish Joe played better, I certainly think given all of those circumstances he still played "ok" and by being careful with the ball, he put us in a position to win.

I'm not trying to defend him and say he played a great game -- he didn't. But I think in context he certainly didn't play horrible. I agree that if we want to win these types of games in the playoffs he'll have to play better, but we've seen Joe typically be able to step up when he's called to do so and I don't believe we would have seen any different last night if the scenario called for it.

As GTR always says, Joe is the hardest QB to figure out -- when the game is on the line he typically comes through, yet when we're up he typically craps the bed. Last night we saw us having a "decent" lead (in terms of Ravens/Steelers games, 6 points is a "decent" lead) and Joe continued to play smart and not crap the bed which is something we don't often see -- I look at that as a positive, personally.


I see that angle and those points you make are valid.

But this game was a bit of a microcosm of the dilemma of the future of this team especially at the QB position.

The rhetoric in the preseason and early on was that it's the offense that's going to have to lead this team now with the defense banged up and the leadership of this team on the defensive end being in the twilight of their careers.

& I fully believe that this team will only go as far as the offense/QB Joe Flacco takes it this year.

I think the optimism has to cease to a certain extent because this is his contract year -- and the size of this contract will be a VERY HUGE determining factor on where this team can go.

If Flacco wants to prove that he is a franchise QB, he just has to play far better and far more consistent.

This is the test for him. It's not about doing just enough to hold on for wins for me as a fan, but it's time for him to go out there and win these tough games on the road on his shoulders.

You can say I'm taking on the typical media pundit critic angle, but I think there is a lot of validity to it.

I'm just worried that we might have hit the ceiling with Flacco's potential and if that is the case... I don't know how comfortable I am in the future.
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bmorecareful


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: .... Reply with quote

Anubiz wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:


To be fair though -- Flacco isn't playing against Leftwich, so the fact that Ben was out would have no impact on Flacco. I too wish Joe would have played better, but the Steelers defense, despite missing Troy, is still top 3 in the league. They took out our best WR, our best pass catching TE left with an injury, and they shut down our run game. So, while I too wish Joe played better, I certainly think given all of those circumstances he still played "ok" and by being careful with the ball, he put us in a position to win.

I'm not trying to defend him and say he played a great game -- he didn't. But I think in context he certainly didn't play horrible. I agree that if we want to win these types of games in the playoffs he'll have to play better, but we've seen Joe typically be able to step up when he's called to do so and I don't believe we would have seen any different last night if the scenario called for it.

As GTR always says, Joe is the hardest QB to figure out -- when the game is on the line he typically comes through, yet when we're up he typically craps the bed. Last night we saw us having a "decent" lead (in terms of Ravens/Steelers games, 6 points is a "decent" lead) and Joe continued to play smart and not crap the bed which is something we don't often see -- I look at that as a positive, personally.


I see that angle and those points you make are valid.

But this game was a bit of a microcosm of the dilemma of the future of this team especially at the QB position.

The rhetoric in the preseason and early on was that it's the offense that's going to have to lead this team now with the defense banged up and the leadership of this team on the defensive end being in the twilight of their careers.

& I fully believe that this team will only go as far as the offense/QB Joe Flacco takes it this year.

I think the optimism has to cease to a certain extent because this is his contract year -- and the size of this contract will be a VERY HUGE determining factor on where this team can go.

If Flacco wants to prove that he is a franchise QB, he just has to play far better and far more consistent.

This is the test for him. It's not about doing just enough to hold on for wins for me as a fan, but it's time for him to go out there and win these tough games on the road on his shoulders.

You can say I'm taking on the typical media pundit critic angle, but I think there is a lot of validity to it.

I'm just worried that we might have hit the ceiling with Flacco's potential and if that is the case... I don't know how comfortable I am in the future.


I think we played good last night. Pittsburgh came out guns blazing and gave us their best game plan defensively and we came out with no turnovers and a victory. Last night its not like flacco continually missed open receivers or we had any real threat on the play actions(the way the run blocking was) and the game was never to the point where opening it up was needed (especially once we saw that leftwich wasn't going to be able to beat us). Of course we would like to put points on the board but at the end of the day u play to win the game. It's Pittsburgh, we beat them 4 out of 5 they can say what they want but they were tired of losing to us I'm happy the defense finally won us one this year.
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Integrity


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: .... Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:

To be fair though -- Flacco isn't playing against Leftwich, so the fact that Ben was out would have no impact on Flacco.


I think if Ben was playing, we would have seen a completely different offensive game plan then what we saw last night. Everything about last night's performance screamed "just don't turn the ball over, cause Leftwich can not beat us."
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: .... Reply with quote

Integrity wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:

To be fair though -- Flacco isn't playing against Leftwich, so the fact that Ben was out would have no impact on Flacco.


I think if Ben was playing, we would have seen a completely different offensive game plan then what we saw last night. Everything about last night's performance screamed "just don't turn the ball over, cause Leftwich can not beat us."


I agree. That's one of many reasons that one cannot use a + b = c logic for the NFL. I don't even bother arguing against those who treat it as a fact that we would have lost were Ben healthy. Just doesn't work that way.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevermore wrote:
Nucky wrote:
- Byron Leftwich run slowest recorded run on Guinness world records ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufkHymQEuqc&feature=related

EDIT:
OT, but I was just search General for that GDT and came across the Start Marc Bulger thread. Good times.


OMG THAT WAS AWESOME.
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