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nfldraftguru1
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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Location: eau claire, wi
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 Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Purple-Pride07 wrote: | | nfldraftguru1 wrote: | Lolz I gotta chuckle out of the last part.
He's not useless, just nobody should be running trying to get him. He's nothing more than a slightly above replacement level backup. |
I try. 
I think there's a disconnect between you and Rams, and I.
I'm not suggesting, nor have I, that he's anything more than slightly above replacement level, and I certainly am not suggesting, again nor have I, that he'd fetch a "significant prospect/player" as rams intimated.
What I am saying is he's spent two full seasons in the major league and has obvious upside that remains untapped. How much is there left to tap? The hell if we know, and it surely won't be anything noteworthy, but when healthy and performing to his abilities, I.e. a little more like 2011 and a little less like 2012, he can help, in-part, contribute to a ball club. Again, I think you're drastically mistaking what my point is if you think I'm arguing he'd be worth a good prospect or player.
Regardless, he quite obviously has more value to the team he's currently on than any team attempting to acquire him in a trade. And if he's dealt, I don't imagine it'd be for cash considerations or a player to be named, is all I'm saying. Whether that's what anyone feels he's worth, or not. |
I'd say that's fair. He's worth a MR IMO. Probably a 1-1.5 WAR player if he played everyday.
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Mesa_Titan
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 48834
Location: Kiltman on the sig!!!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| titans_5 wrote: | hes 26 years old, to say hes reached his potential and all you re gonna get is a 230 average with a 280 obp is as ridiculous and closed minded as saying hes going to be buster posey.
Arencibia is a decent catcher, a bit below average defensively, but watching him he did look like hes getting better as the season went on. His offense is fine.
Also for those of you saying that the skydome (rogers center) is a home run park. This is not true, its ranked 15th right in the middle of the league (HR rate 1.03). It just comes off as a conformational bias cause we have Joey and Edwin routinely launching taters over the right field fence.
yes i used espn, shoot me... the stats are all thats needed though..
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor |
Rogers center is different for RH and LH hitters, though. It's a RHH ballpark, and a good one.
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BillsGuy82
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 6772
Location: Niagara Falls
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| nfldraftguru1 wrote: | | Purple-Pride07 wrote: | | nfldraftguru1 wrote: | Lolz I gotta chuckle out of the last part.
He's not useless, just nobody should be running trying to get him. He's nothing more than a slightly above replacement level backup. |
I try.
I think there's a disconnect between you and Rams, and I.
I'm not suggesting, nor have I, that he's anything more than slightly above replacement level, and I certainly am not suggesting, again nor have I, that he'd fetch a "significant prospect/player" as rams intimated.
What I am saying is he's spent two full seasons in the major league and has obvious upside that remains untapped. How much is there left to tap? The hell if we know, and it surely won't be anything noteworthy, but when healthy and performing to his abilities, I.e. a little more like 2011 and a little less like 2012, he can help, in-part, contribute to a ball club. Again, I think you're drastically mistaking what my point is if you think I'm arguing he'd be worth a good prospect or player.
Regardless, he quite obviously has more value to the team he's currently on than any team attempting to acquire him in a trade. And if he's dealt, I don't imagine it'd be for cash considerations or a player to be named, is all I'm saying. Whether that's what anyone feels he's worth, or not. |
I'd say that's fair. He's worth a MR IMO. Probably a 1-1.5 WAR player if he played everyday. |
I'm gonna take wait and see approach with JPA. Us Jays fans feel he has a little more value than credited, Sabermetric fans feel he worthless, who knows.. According to AA, JPA is the starter come opening day.. If he gives us 20-25 HR's, and 60-70 RBI's and call a decent game, I'm happy |
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nfldraftguru1
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 8125
Location: eau claire, wi
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| BillsGuy82 wrote: | | nfldraftguru1 wrote: | | Purple-Pride07 wrote: | | nfldraftguru1 wrote: | Lolz I gotta chuckle out of the last part.
He's not useless, just nobody should be running trying to get him. He's nothing more than a slightly above replacement level backup. |
I try.
I think there's a disconnect between you and Rams, and I.
I'm not suggesting, nor have I, that he's anything more than slightly above replacement level, and I certainly am not suggesting, again nor have I, that he'd fetch a "significant prospect/player" as rams intimated.
What I am saying is he's spent two full seasons in the major league and has obvious upside that remains untapped. How much is there left to tap? The hell if we know, and it surely won't be anything noteworthy, but when healthy and performing to his abilities, I.e. a little more like 2011 and a little less like 2012, he can help, in-part, contribute to a ball club. Again, I think you're drastically mistaking what my point is if you think I'm arguing he'd be worth a good prospect or player.
Regardless, he quite obviously has more value to the team he's currently on than any team attempting to acquire him in a trade. And if he's dealt, I don't imagine it'd be for cash considerations or a player to be named, is all I'm saying. Whether that's what anyone feels he's worth, or not. |
I'd say that's fair. He's worth a MR IMO. Probably a 1-1.5 WAR player if he played everyday. |
I'm gonna take wait and see approach with JPA. Us Jays fans feel he has a little more value than credited, Sabermetric fans feel he worthless, who knows.. According to AA, JPA is the starter come opening day.. If he gives us 20-25 HR's, and 60-70 RBI's and call a decent game, I'm happy |
Please don't use RBI's...silly. 
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titans_5
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1484
Location: Tarrana Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Mesa_Titan wrote: |
Rogers center is different for RH and LH hitters, though. It's a RHH ballpark, and a good one. |
http://www.parkfactors.com/TOR
where are you getting this information? Its a dome, and the dimensions are symetrical.. heres a link showing its a hitters park- 7th in the league based on 2008-2011 stats for park factors.
Im just really curious where you are getting that its an extreme RHH park.-- we have a lot of right handed sluggers yes..and over the years a lot of good right handed sluggers.. In 2009 Adam Lind had no problem hitting 30+ out... he hasnt replicated it since but thats a different story.... I have looked and found no statistical data to suggest that the park favours righties over lefties.
Im just really interested to know on what basis you make this claim |
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fishfan13
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 1310
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: |
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It becomes a RHH park when EE and J-Bats are hitting 70 HR out the park.
Arencibia has a good chance of being a 25+ HR catcher. While his peripherals are not the greatest, how many catchers ever can boast that?
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fishfan13
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 1310
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| nfldraftguru1 wrote: | | BillsGuy82 wrote: | | nfldraftguru1 wrote: | | Purple-Pride07 wrote: | | nfldraftguru1 wrote: | Lolz I gotta chuckle out of the last part.
He's not useless, just nobody should be running trying to get him. He's nothing more than a slightly above replacement level backup. |
I try.
I think there's a disconnect between you and Rams, and I.
I'm not suggesting, nor have I, that he's anything more than slightly above replacement level, and I certainly am not suggesting, again nor have I, that he'd fetch a "significant prospect/player" as rams intimated.
What I am saying is he's spent two full seasons in the major league and has obvious upside that remains untapped. How much is there left to tap? The hell if we know, and it surely won't be anything noteworthy, but when healthy and performing to his abilities, I.e. a little more like 2011 and a little less like 2012, he can help, in-part, contribute to a ball club. Again, I think you're drastically mistaking what my point is if you think I'm arguing he'd be worth a good prospect or player.
Regardless, he quite obviously has more value to the team he's currently on than any team attempting to acquire him in a trade. And if he's dealt, I don't imagine it'd be for cash considerations or a player to be named, is all I'm saying. Whether that's what anyone feels he's worth, or not. |
I'd say that's fair. He's worth a MR IMO. Probably a 1-1.5 WAR player if he played everyday. |
I'm gonna take wait and see approach with JPA. Us Jays fans feel he has a little more value than credited, Sabermetric fans feel he worthless, who knows.. According to AA, JPA is the starter come opening day.. If he gives us 20-25 HR's, and 60-70 RBI's and call a decent game, I'm happy |
Please don't use RBI's...silly. |
RBIS's are dumb to judge a player.
But year to year its a great stat. It shows the result of what happened, not what could have happened.
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titans_5
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1484
Location: Tarrana Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| fishfan13 wrote: | It becomes a RHH park when EE and J-Bats are hitting 70 HR out the park.
Arencibia has a good chance of being a 25+ HR catcher. While his peripherals are not the greatest, how many catchers ever can boast that? |
this is exaclty what im saying. If EE or Bats were left handed their power wouldnt suffer any at the Skydome... its conformational bias.. nothing more, unless someone can produce a metric telling me otherwise. |
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Mesa_Titan
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 48834
Location: Kiltman on the sig!!!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| titans_5 wrote: | | Mesa_Titan wrote: |
Rogers center is different for RH and LH hitters, though. It's a RHH ballpark, and a good one. |
http://www.parkfactors.com/TOR
where are you getting this information? Its a dome, and the dimensions are symetrical.. heres a link showing its a hitters park- 7th in the league based on 2008-2011 stats for park factors.
Im just really curious where you are getting that its an extreme RHH park.-- we have a lot of right handed sluggers yes..and over the years a lot of good right handed sluggers.. In 2009 Adam Lind had no problem hitting 30+ out... he hasnt replicated it since but thats a different story.... I have looked and found no statistical data to suggest that the park favours righties over lefties.
Im just really interested to know on what basis you make this claim |
| Quote: | | That being said, one promising piece of information is that despite Rogers Centre being symmetrical, the stadium has favored right-handed power hitters |
http://www.stevepinto.com/Baseball_Related/Baseball_Stadium/21008.html
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titans_5
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1484
Location: Tarrana Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:16 am Post subject: |
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I think you misposted the link.. this just says its a hitters park nothing about the handedness of batters. ill take the quote as a grain of salt.. merely saying it favours a handedness doesnt suggest that anysort of data support this claim.
thanks for following up tho.. As a die hard jays fan and season ticket holder if you find more info on this please let me know .. im genuinely interested. |
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Mesa_Titan
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 48834
Location: Kiltman on the sig!!!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| titans_5 wrote: |
I think you misposted the link.. this just says its a hitters park nothing about the handedness of batters. ill take the quote as a grain of salt.. merely saying it favours a handedness doesnt suggest that anysort of data support this claim.
thanks for following up tho.. As a die hard jays fan and season ticket holder if you find more info on this please let me know .. im genuinely interested. |
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/mlb/37265/165/park-factors?pg=2
That's the link. Don't know where I got that one from... 
It doesn't reveal the stats, but it says that Rogers Centre, despite being symmetrical has favored RHH's for the past three years, and that article was written in January after the 2010 season.
Also, there's this.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/season-preview/2012/2613072.html
Rogers Centre the highest HR per/AB in the majors for RHH's from 2009-2011
| Quote: | | Blue Jays third baseman Brett Lawrie stands poised for a breakthrough 2012 season, not least of all because his home park is tailored almost perfectly for his skills. |
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| FootballPhreak wrote: | | Stanton is garbage |
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Purple-Pride07
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 17173
Location: Right Behind You
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Toronto's Blue Jays Stadium is good for power hitters. |
I don't remember the name switch.
#Toronto'sBlueJaysStadium
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Dr. Philly
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 23500
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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I can never call it the Rogers Centre, its always the Skydome for me.
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titans_5
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1484
Location: Tarrana Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Philly wrote: | | I can never call it the Rogers Centre, its always the Skydome for me. |
This + 1000
did anyone see the round up interview of Johnson and Buck on DrunkJaysFans?
Buck had some really nice things to say about the jays and about reyes and bonifacio
http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/11/21/johnson-and-buck-speak/#more-10906
also we now have a monopoly on the Isturi... signed cesar yesterday-- decent signing.. he will only see major league action in serious injury situations but should be good for buffalo... apparently a really slick fielder who cant do much with his bat. |
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nfldraftguru1
Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 8125
Location: eau claire, wi
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| titans_5 wrote: | | Dr. Philly wrote: | | I can never call it the Rogers Centre, its always the Skydome for me. |
This + 1000
did anyone see the round up interview of Johnson and Buck on DrunkJaysFans?
Buck had some really nice things to say about the jays and about reyes and bonifacio
http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/11/21/johnson-and-buck-speak/#more-10906
also we now have a monopoly on the Isturi... signed cesar yesterday-- decent signing.. he will only see major league action in serious injury situations but should be good for buffalo... apparently a really slick fielder who cant do much with his bat. |
Watching him as a Brewer last year, there's nothing left in that tank. He's not even a good defender anymore, just averagish.
No big deal though, he won't play much if at all.
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| Eastern Walrus wrote: | | just angry sex every night, not because we like to... just because we can and are damn good at it |
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