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Blue Jays Acquire the Marlins for Prospects & Stuff
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 10166
Location: Whitewater, WI
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purple-Pride07 wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
Lolz I gotta chuckle out of the last part.

He's not useless, just nobody should be running trying to get him. He's nothing more than a slightly above replacement level backup.


I try. Cool

I think there's a disconnect between you and Rams, and I.
I'm not suggesting, nor have I, that he's anything more than slightly above replacement level, and I certainly am not suggesting, again nor have I, that he'd fetch a "significant prospect/player" as rams intimated.

What I am saying is he's spent two full seasons in the major league and has obvious upside that remains untapped. How much is there left to tap? The hell if we know, and it surely won't be anything noteworthy, but when healthy and performing to his abilities, I.e. a little more like 2011 and a little less like 2012, he can help, in-part, contribute to a ball club. Again, I think you're drastically mistaking what my point is if you think I'm arguing he'd be worth a good prospect or player.

Regardless, he quite obviously has more value to the team he's currently on than any team attempting to acquire him in a trade. And if he's dealt, I don't imagine it'd be for cash considerations or a player to be named, is all I'm saying. Whether that's what anyone feels he's worth, or not.


I'd say that's fair. He's worth a MR IMO. Probably a 1-1.5 WAR player if he played everyday.
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Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans_5 wrote:
hes 26 years old, to say hes reached his potential and all you re gonna get is a 230 average with a 280 obp is as ridiculous and closed minded as saying hes going to be buster posey.

Arencibia is a decent catcher, a bit below average defensively, but watching him he did look like hes getting better as the season went on. His offense is fine.

Also for those of you saying that the skydome (rogers center) is a home run park. This is not true, its ranked 15th right in the middle of the league (HR rate 1.03). It just comes off as a conformational bias cause we have Joey and Edwin routinely launching taters over the right field fence.

yes i used espn, shoot me... the stats are all thats needed though..

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor


Rogers center is different for RH and LH hitters, though. It's a RHH ballpark, and a good one.
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BillsGuy82


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Location: Niagara Falls
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nfldraftguru1 wrote:
Purple-Pride07 wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
Lolz I gotta chuckle out of the last part.

He's not useless, just nobody should be running trying to get him. He's nothing more than a slightly above replacement level backup.


I try. Cool

I think there's a disconnect between you and Rams, and I.
I'm not suggesting, nor have I, that he's anything more than slightly above replacement level, and I certainly am not suggesting, again nor have I, that he'd fetch a "significant prospect/player" as rams intimated.

What I am saying is he's spent two full seasons in the major league and has obvious upside that remains untapped. How much is there left to tap? The hell if we know, and it surely won't be anything noteworthy, but when healthy and performing to his abilities, I.e. a little more like 2011 and a little less like 2012, he can help, in-part, contribute to a ball club. Again, I think you're drastically mistaking what my point is if you think I'm arguing he'd be worth a good prospect or player.

Regardless, he quite obviously has more value to the team he's currently on than any team attempting to acquire him in a trade. And if he's dealt, I don't imagine it'd be for cash considerations or a player to be named, is all I'm saying. Whether that's what anyone feels he's worth, or not.


I'd say that's fair. He's worth a MR IMO. Probably a 1-1.5 WAR player if he played everyday.


I'm gonna take wait and see approach with JPA. Us Jays fans feel he has a little more value than credited, Sabermetric fans feel he worthless, who knows.. According to AA, JPA is the starter come opening day.. If he gives us 20-25 HR's, and 60-70 RBI's and call a decent game, I'm happy
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 10166
Location: Whitewater, WI
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillsGuy82 wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
Purple-Pride07 wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
Lolz I gotta chuckle out of the last part.

He's not useless, just nobody should be running trying to get him. He's nothing more than a slightly above replacement level backup.


I try. Cool

I think there's a disconnect between you and Rams, and I.
I'm not suggesting, nor have I, that he's anything more than slightly above replacement level, and I certainly am not suggesting, again nor have I, that he'd fetch a "significant prospect/player" as rams intimated.

What I am saying is he's spent two full seasons in the major league and has obvious upside that remains untapped. How much is there left to tap? The hell if we know, and it surely won't be anything noteworthy, but when healthy and performing to his abilities, I.e. a little more like 2011 and a little less like 2012, he can help, in-part, contribute to a ball club. Again, I think you're drastically mistaking what my point is if you think I'm arguing he'd be worth a good prospect or player.

Regardless, he quite obviously has more value to the team he's currently on than any team attempting to acquire him in a trade. And if he's dealt, I don't imagine it'd be for cash considerations or a player to be named, is all I'm saying. Whether that's what anyone feels he's worth, or not.


I'd say that's fair. He's worth a MR IMO. Probably a 1-1.5 WAR player if he played everyday.


I'm gonna take wait and see approach with JPA. Us Jays fans feel he has a little more value than credited, Sabermetric fans feel he worthless, who knows.. According to AA, JPA is the starter come opening day.. If he gives us 20-25 HR's, and 60-70 RBI's and call a decent game, I'm happy


Please don't use RBI's...silly. Crying or Very sad
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titans_5


Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mesa_Titan wrote:

Rogers center is different for RH and LH hitters, though. It's a RHH ballpark, and a good one.


http://www.parkfactors.com/TOR

where are you getting this information? Its a dome, and the dimensions are symetrical.. heres a link showing its a hitters park- 7th in the league based on 2008-2011 stats for park factors.

Im just really curious where you are getting that its an extreme RHH park.-- we have a lot of right handed sluggers yes..and over the years a lot of good right handed sluggers.. In 2009 Adam Lind had no problem hitting 30+ out... he hasnt replicated it since but thats a different story.... I have looked and found no statistical data to suggest that the park favours righties over lefties.

Im just really interested to know on what basis you make this claim
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fishfan13


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 1364
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It becomes a RHH park when EE and J-Bats are hitting 70 HR out the park.

Arencibia has a good chance of being a 25+ HR catcher. While his peripherals are not the greatest, how many catchers ever can boast that?
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fishfan13


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 1364
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nfldraftguru1 wrote:
BillsGuy82 wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
Purple-Pride07 wrote:
nfldraftguru1 wrote:
Lolz I gotta chuckle out of the last part.

He's not useless, just nobody should be running trying to get him. He's nothing more than a slightly above replacement level backup.


I try. Cool

I think there's a disconnect between you and Rams, and I.
I'm not suggesting, nor have I, that he's anything more than slightly above replacement level, and I certainly am not suggesting, again nor have I, that he'd fetch a "significant prospect/player" as rams intimated.

What I am saying is he's spent two full seasons in the major league and has obvious upside that remains untapped. How much is there left to tap? The hell if we know, and it surely won't be anything noteworthy, but when healthy and performing to his abilities, I.e. a little more like 2011 and a little less like 2012, he can help, in-part, contribute to a ball club. Again, I think you're drastically mistaking what my point is if you think I'm arguing he'd be worth a good prospect or player.

Regardless, he quite obviously has more value to the team he's currently on than any team attempting to acquire him in a trade. And if he's dealt, I don't imagine it'd be for cash considerations or a player to be named, is all I'm saying. Whether that's what anyone feels he's worth, or not.


I'd say that's fair. He's worth a MR IMO. Probably a 1-1.5 WAR player if he played everyday.


I'm gonna take wait and see approach with JPA. Us Jays fans feel he has a little more value than credited, Sabermetric fans feel he worthless, who knows.. According to AA, JPA is the starter come opening day.. If he gives us 20-25 HR's, and 60-70 RBI's and call a decent game, I'm happy


Please don't use RBI's...silly. Crying or Very sad


RBIS's are dumb to judge a player.

But year to year its a great stat. It shows the result of what happened, not what could have happened.
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titans_5


Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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Location: Tarrana Canada
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan13 wrote:
It becomes a RHH park when EE and J-Bats are hitting 70 HR out the park.

Arencibia has a good chance of being a 25+ HR catcher. While his peripherals are not the greatest, how many catchers ever can boast that?


this is exaclty what im saying. If EE or Bats were left handed their power wouldnt suffer any at the Skydome... its conformational bias.. nothing more, unless someone can produce a metric telling me otherwise.
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Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans_5 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:

Rogers center is different for RH and LH hitters, though. It's a RHH ballpark, and a good one.


http://www.parkfactors.com/TOR

where are you getting this information? Its a dome, and the dimensions are symetrical.. heres a link showing its a hitters park- 7th in the league based on 2008-2011 stats for park factors.

Im just really curious where you are getting that its an extreme RHH park.-- we have a lot of right handed sluggers yes..and over the years a lot of good right handed sluggers.. In 2009 Adam Lind had no problem hitting 30+ out... he hasnt replicated it since but thats a different story.... I have looked and found no statistical data to suggest that the park favours righties over lefties.

Im just really interested to know on what basis you make this claim


Quote:
That being said, one promising piece of information is that despite Rogers Centre being symmetrical, the stadium has favored right-handed power hitters


http://www.stevepinto.com/Baseball_Related/Baseball_Stadium/21008.html
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titans_5


Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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Location: Tarrana Canada
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mesa_Titan wrote:


Quote:
That being said, one promising piece of information is that despite Rogers Centre being symmetrical, the stadium has favored right-handed power hitters


http://www.stevepinto.com/Baseball_Related/Baseball_Stadium/21008.html



I think you misposted the link.. this just says its a hitters park nothing about the handedness of batters. ill take the quote as a grain of salt.. merely saying it favours a handedness doesnt suggest that anysort of data support this claim.

thanks for following up tho.. As a die hard jays fan and season ticket holder if you find more info on this please let me know .. im genuinely interested.
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Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 55925
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans_5 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:


Quote:
That being said, one promising piece of information is that despite Rogers Centre being symmetrical, the stadium has favored right-handed power hitters


http://www.stevepinto.com/Baseball_Related/Baseball_Stadium/21008.html



I think you misposted the link.. this just says its a hitters park nothing about the handedness of batters. ill take the quote as a grain of salt.. merely saying it favours a handedness doesnt suggest that anysort of data support this claim.

thanks for following up tho.. As a die hard jays fan and season ticket holder if you find more info on this please let me know .. im genuinely interested.


http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/mlb/37265/165/park-factors?pg=2

That's the link. Don't know where I got that one from... Laughing

It doesn't reveal the stats, but it says that Rogers Centre, despite being symmetrical has favored RHH's for the past three years, and that article was written in January after the 2010 season.

Also, there's this.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/season-preview/2012/2613072.html

Rogers Centre the highest HR per/AB in the majors for RHH's from 2009-2011

Quote:
Blue Jays third baseman Brett Lawrie stands poised for a breakthrough 2012 season, not least of all because his home park is tailored almost perfectly for his skills.

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Purple-Pride07


Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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Location: Right Behind You
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Toronto's Blue Jays Stadium is good for power hitters.


I don't remember the name switch. Laughing

#Toronto'sBlueJaysStadium
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Dr. Philly


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can never call it the Rogers Centre, its always the Skydome for me.
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titans_5


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Philly wrote:
I can never call it the Rogers Centre, its always the Skydome for me.


This + 1000


did anyone see the round up interview of Johnson and Buck on DrunkJaysFans?


Buck had some really nice things to say about the jays and about reyes and bonifacio

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/11/21/johnson-and-buck-speak/#more-10906


also we now have a monopoly on the Isturi... signed cesar yesterday-- decent signing.. he will only see major league action in serious injury situations but should be good for buffalo... apparently a really slick fielder who cant do much with his bat.
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans_5 wrote:
Dr. Philly wrote:
I can never call it the Rogers Centre, its always the Skydome for me.


This + 1000


did anyone see the round up interview of Johnson and Buck on DrunkJaysFans?


Buck had some really nice things to say about the jays and about reyes and bonifacio

http://blogs.thescore.com/djf/2012/11/21/johnson-and-buck-speak/#more-10906


also we now have a monopoly on the Isturi... signed cesar yesterday-- decent signing.. he will only see major league action in serious injury situations but should be good for buffalo... apparently a really slick fielder who cant do much with his bat.


Watching him as a Brewer last year, there's nothing left in that tank. He's not even a good defender anymore, just averagish.

No big deal though, he won't play much if at all.
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