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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Forgetting Brandon Marshall Reply with quote

We are 10 games into the season and Brandon Marshall, who is overrated according to many of the posters in this forum, is 3rd in the league in receiving TD's, 3rd in the league in yardage, 2nd in the league in receptions, 10th in the league in YAC, and is really the only receiving threat on his team.

I read recently that he has faced more double teams than any WR in football on a per snap basis, and he has has ZERO off the field issues.

In exchange we have Michael Egnew who hasn't played a snap and was in jeopordy of being cut in the preseason...and a 3rd round choice.


Anyone who thinks we did well in this trade is high as a kite. We got fleeced. Badly. We also, oddly enough, are now looking for a WR according to our owner, who seems to get what he wants.

WORST. TRADE. EVER.


Our team is in desperate need of playmakers. Something we've been in desperate need of for several years. We have a roster full of players that are improving, but none that look like guys that could take it to the house on any play...maybe Reggie, but he is sitting in favor of Daniel Thomas for some dumb reason. Bottom line, we are now going to go out and try and find the very thing we got rid of in Brandon Marshall. I will never understand that trade.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right about one thing bush is sitting behind thomas for some dumb reason, Its starting to [inappropriate/removed] me off really. As for marshall i was in the camp that was in favor of the trade but i certanly thought they would have brought someone in who could have helped us and thats not the case. I wanted to be patient with egnew but the fact that we are approaching week 10 and getting no real production from the position and he still cant get active is troubling. So yeah unless we strike gold with the next 3rd rounder it was a FAIL!!!
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, trade looks horrible, but I can only assume that since it happened after we hired Philbin that he signed off on it. Philbin's been in the NFL longer than Marshall. He knows who Marshall is and what he can offer. I have to assume our coach has a vision and a plan.

I hope.
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mountainpd


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
Yep, trade looks horrible, but I can only assume that since it happened after we hired Philbin that he signed off on it. Philbin's been in the NFL longer than Marshall. He knows who Marshall is and what he can offer. I have to assume our coach has a vision and a plan.

I hope.


I'm hoping the same thing. We screwed this trade up no doubt.
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RealMetalFan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mountainpd wrote:
phinmun wrote:
Yep, trade looks horrible, but I can only assume that since it happened after we hired Philbin that he signed off on it. Philbin's been in the NFL longer than Marshall. He knows who Marshall is and what he can offer. I have to assume our coach has a vision and a plan.

I hope.


I'm hoping the same thing. We screwed this trade up no doubt.


Yeah, in the short term we got reamed. But we still have one 3rd rounder left to pend from this trade, and in the currently-looking-unlikely event that Egnew turns into something worthy of a 3rd round selection, it could work out for us in the long term. Short term success would've been nice though.
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carlos2104


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep feeding my friends all these lines trying to justify this and the Vontae trade. I don't even believe myself. "We don't need a number 1 WR" "Vontae doesn't fit our D" Even if these are supposedly true, who cares, We need some damn talent
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to disagree with you about vonte, He has been hurt and was giving up a NFL best 85% completion percentage when thrown against before he went out. He showed up to camp out of shape with a new regime thats a no no and was hungover at practice last year. Time will tell what becomes of that pick maybe a nice 2nd round WR
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xXxHOUSEDxXx


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think trading back in the draft the other year to grab Odrick and Misi was a pretty bad trade too. I wish we would have just taken Earl Thomas like I wanted to. Bottom line is Jeff Ireland makes a lot of bad trades. Look at his return on investment:

1. Drafts Vontae in 1st round, trades him for 2nd round pick.
2. Trades two 2nd round picks for Marshall, trades him for two thirds.
3. Drafts Merling in 2nd, gets cut.
4. Drafts Pat White in 2nd, gets cut.

There's a lot of others that I can't think of off the top of my head.

TURRIBLE (Barkley voice)
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sparano and Co. did the same thing with JT when they came into town.
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Deets


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what happens when regime change happens. It is the nasty risk of any change of coach. Talent is lost for a fraction of its true value because coaches don't consider themselves compatible with certain players. This is why the more a team changes regimes the longer it is stuck in purgatory.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
I think trading back in the draft the other year to grab Odrick and Misi was a pretty bad trade too. I wish we would have just taken Earl Thomas like I wanted to. Bottom line is Jeff Ireland makes a lot of bad trades. Look at his return on investment:

1. Drafts Vontae in 1st round, trades him for 2nd round pick.
2. Trades two 2nd round picks for Marshall, trades him for two thirds.
3. Drafts Merling in 2nd, gets cut.
4. Drafts Pat White in 2nd, gets cut.

There's a lot of others that I can't think of off the top of my head.

TURRIBLE (Barkley voice)


Conveniently leaving off the Reggie Bush trade I see...

As for the Marshall trade, would we have won a couple more games this year with Marshall on the team? Yes, but we are rebuilding and Marshall didn't want to be a part of that and would have been a cancer to a new developing QB in my opinion, so I still think they had good reasons for getting him out of here. Now this offseason we could go after a receiver that knows that football is a team sport like Jennings if we want.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deets wrote:
This is what happens when regime change happens. It is the nasty risk of any change of coach. Talent is lost for a fraction of its true value because coaches don't consider themselves compatible with certain players. This is why the more a team changes regimes the longer it is stuck in purgatory.




See...I agree with this and I'll go as far as to say I'd rather commit to Joe Philbin and his offense for 5 years than commit to a proven player like Jake Long for that time.

I think you have to rank the importance of different things here.

What single piece is most important?

1.) Having a very good QB who throws the ball really well.

What's behind that?

2.) A Good Head Coach who's smart and can develop the players.

After that?

3.) Obtaining a Productive Offensive System

4.) Then you get to Players who I'd rank in some order where Tackles and Centers were highly prized and RBs and Gs weren't so much since they seem to be the most replaceable figures. WRs and TEs would probably go somewhere between the elite OT/C group and the RB/G group.


Mercury22 thinks that we should keep Jake Long and ditch the system that he doesn't fit. I on the other hand think it would be smarter to make a long-term (uninterrupted) commitment to an unproven coach like Philbin with a proven offensive system which is what we'd like to see over the course of many decades.

I don't want to root for a team like SF who has to run the ball and play great defense. That's old school and it's too hard to win a Super Bowl trying to play like that because the margin for error is much slimmer than it is when you can pass like the Patriots, Colts, Saints, Steelers and Packers.

The difference today is that talent is much more spread out. You can't collect all the best defensive players on one team and dominate like you could in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Teams like the Ravens and Bears are unbelievably fortunate to have had the success they have. I said before I would be surprised if the 49ers don't go the way of the great Panther defenses (Peppers, Beason, etc) and slowly fade away while that offense sputters and fails to win Play-Off games.

The teams fighting to get on that list (Texans, Broncos, Ravens & Falcons) are all passing the ball. Of that list, only the Steelers and Texans might be considered teams that effectively run the ball. Still, they have well-above-average QBs.

I want a modern style of football so to me, looking 5, 10 and 15 years down the road and looking to develop a modern style of offense is a lot more important than any single player, even Jake Long.

Think about things on a larger scale guys...our problem has not been the turnover of QBs and players on this team. That's been a symptom of an even greater problem: the turnover we've had in Coaches and GMs.

If you like passing and QB-development, then you should be supporting the HC and letting him worry about who he does and doesn't need. If he releases, trades or cuts players we like, then consider it a consequence of at least having something more important on our side.


Last edited by phinmun on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:19 am; edited 8 times in total
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double Post
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
Deets wrote:
This is what happens when regime change happens. It is the nasty risk of any change of coach. Talent is lost for a fraction of its true value because coaches don't consider themselves compatible with certain players. This is why the more a team changes regimes the longer it is stuck in purgatory.




See...I agree with this and I'll go as far as to say I'd rather commit to Joe Philbin and his offense for 5 years than commit to a proven player like Jake Long for that time.

I think you have to rank the importance of different things here.

What single piece is most important?

1.) Having a very good QB who throws the ball really well.

What's behind that?

2.) A Good Head Coach who's smart and can develop the players.

After that?

3.) Obtaining a Productive Offensive System

4.) Then you get to Players who I'd rank in some order where Tackles and Centers were highly prized and RBs and Gs weren't so much since they seem to be the most replaceable figures. WRs and TEs would probably go somewhere between the elite OT/C group and the RB/G group.


Mercury22 thinks that we should keep Jake Long and ditch the system that he doesn't fit. I on the other hand think it would be smarter to make a long-term (uninterrupted) commitment to an unproven coach like Philbin with a proven offensive system which is what we'd like to see over the course of many decades.

I don't want to root for a team like SF who has to run the ball and play great defense. That's old school and it's too hard to win a Super Bowl trying to play like that because the margin for error is much slimmer than it is when you can pass like the Patriots, Colts, Saints, Steelers and Packers.

The difference today is that talent is much more spread out. You can't collect all the best defensive players on one team and dominate like you could in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Teams like the Ravens and Bears are unbelievably fortunate to have had the success they have. I said before I would be surprised if the 49ers don't go the way of the great Panther defenses (Peppers, Beason, etc) and slowly fade away while that offense sputters and fails to win Play-Off games.

The teams fighting to get on that list (Texans, Broncos, Ravens & Falcons) are all passing the ball. Of that list, only the Steelers and Texans might be considered teams that effectively run the ball. Still, they have well-above-average QBs.

I want a modern style of football so to me, looking 5, 10 and 15 years down the road and looking to develop a modern style of offense is a lot more important than any single player, even Jake Long.

Think about things on a larger scale guys...our problem has not been the turnover of QBs and players on this team. That's been a symptom of an even greater problem: the turnover we've had in Coaches and GMs.

If you like passing and QB-development, then you should be supporting the HC and letting him worry about who he does and doesn't need. If he releases, trades or cuts players we like, then consider it a consequence of at least having something more important on our side.


5 year stints will get you the exact same problem we currently have. 5 years and then a new coach simply means every 5 years you stand the chance of having talented players on your team no longer fit. Its a talent drain. We've seen it in Miami for over a decade now.

We need to find another coach like Shula. He won with a power running game and a stout defense, and then he won with a gun slinger and no real running game. He showed he could adapt to the talent he had. So long as we are pursuing the newest/modern offenses and/or defenses we will have super high turnover rates of personnel.
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xXxHOUSEDxXx


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
xXxHOUSEDxXx wrote:
I think trading back in the draft the other year to grab Odrick and Misi was a pretty bad trade too. I wish we would have just taken Earl Thomas like I wanted to. Bottom line is Jeff Ireland makes a lot of bad trades. Look at his return on investment:

1. Drafts Vontae in 1st round, trades him for 2nd round pick.
2. Trades two 2nd round picks for Marshall, trades him for two thirds.
3. Drafts Merling in 2nd, gets cut.
4. Drafts Pat White in 2nd, gets cut.

There's a lot of others that I can't think of off the top of my head.

TURRIBLE (Barkley voice)


Conveniently leaving off the Reggie Bush trade I see...

As for the Marshall trade, would we have won a couple more games this year with Marshall on the team? Yes, but we are rebuilding and Marshall didn't want to be a part of that and would have been a cancer to a new developing QB in my opinion, so I still think they had good reasons for getting him out of here. Now this offseason we could go after a receiver that knows that football is a team sport like Jennings if we want.


I left off the Bush trade because I'm talking about Ireland's horrible ROI. If a financial advisor approached you and told you that if you invested $1,000 with him you would lose $500 over the course of the year and then he would stop being your advisory, you'd surely accept that deal, right?! I mean, everyone wants an awful return on their investment, right?!
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