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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1456
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:

If Carson Palmer goes down we will be a top 2 pick.


FIFY Wink
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"The fire that burns brightest in the Raiders organization is the will to win."
Mr. Al Davis RIP
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1456
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reddevil wrote:
Stay where we pick (top 10 for sure), which would exclude using a high pick on a CB or MLB as they do not qualify as good value:
Star Lotulelei, Johnathan Hankins, Luke Joeckel, Jarvis Jones (who may drop due to spinal condition), Demontre Moore, Barkevious Mingo, Bjoern Werner

Trade back a few spots:
Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Chance Warmack, Jesse Williams, Dion Jordan, Sam Montgomery


Some nice names on there, really like Lotulelei, Joeckel, Werner and Lewan. Kyle Long should be on our radar aswell for obvious reasons though it looks like he may rise up draft boards and be the opposite of a 'sleeper'!!!
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Mr. Al Davis RIP
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7437
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reddevil wrote:
Stay where we pick (top 10 for sure), which would exclude using a high pick on a CB or MLB as they do not qualify as good value:
Star Lotulelei, Johnathan Hankins, Luke Joeckel, Jarvis Jones (who may drop due to spinal condition), Demontre Moore, Barkevious Mingo, Bjoern Werner

Trade back a few spots:
Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Chance Warmack, Jesse Williams, Dion Jordan, Sam Montgomery


I'm extremely confident that the conservative Mckenzie isn't going spend his first 1st rd pick with his new organization on a health risk. Imo, he's going to play it close to the vest and draft a consensus no brainer with a high floor (ie:Loeckell or Lewan).

I would also like to see the Raiders trade back where Mingo, Jordan, Montgomery or Matthews come into play but I don't think it will happen.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked at Free Agents, and MLB Manti Te'o, a QB of the future or trading back makes allot of sense because the Raiders can address all other needs via free agents.

So far the free agents :

LT Duane Brown
LT Ryan Clady
LT Jake Long
LT Branden Albert
RT Sean Locklear
RT Phil Loadholt

LG Eben Britton
G Andy Levitre

TE Jared Cook
TE Fred Davis
TE Dustin Keller
TE Heath Miller

WR Dwayne Bowe
WR Greg Jennings
WR Mike Wallace

CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
CB Sam Shields
CB Sean Smith
CB Derek Cox
CB Captain Munnerlyn
CB Charles Tillman
CB Leodis McKelvin
CB Cary Williams
CB Jason McCourty

FS Jairus Byrd
FS Dashon Goldson
FS Glover Quin
S William Moore

OLB Shaun Phillips

DE Cliff Avril
DE/OLB Connor Barwin
DE Osi Umenyiora
DE Michael Johnson
DE Michael Bennett

DT Fili Moala
DT Randy Starks
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 16127
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
I just looked at Free Agents, and MLB Manti Te'o or a QB of the future makes allot of sense because the Raiders can address all other needs via free agents.

So far the free agents :

LT Duane Brown
LT Ryan Clady
LT Jake Long
LT Branden Albert
RT Sean Locklear
RT Phil Loadholt

LG Eben Britton
G Andy Levitre

TE Jared Cook
TE Fred Davis
TE Dustin Keller
TE Heath Miller

WR Dwayne Bowe
WR Greg Jennings
WR Mike Wallace

CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
CB Sam Shields
CB Sean Smith
CB Derek Cox
CB Captain Munnerlyn
CB Charles Tillman
CB Leodis McKelvin
CB Cary Williams
CB Jason McCourty

FS Jairus Byrd
FS Dashon Goldson
FS Glover Quin
S William Moore

OLB Shaun Phillips

DE Cliff Avril
DE/OLB Connor Barwin
DE Osi Umenyiora
DE Michael Johnson
DE Michael Bennett

DT Fili Moala
DT Randy Starks


yea but who will want to sign with us?
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
yea but who will want to sign with us?


I'm sure allot of guys would seeing the Raiders should have some money to spend next year.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 13216
Location: CA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
I just looked at Free Agents, and MLB Manti Te'o or a QB of the future makes allot of sense because the Raiders can address all other needs via free agents.

So far the free agents :

LT Duane Brown
LT Ryan Clady
LT Jake Long
LT Branden Albert
RT Sean Locklear
RT Phil Loadholt

LG Eben Britton
G Andy Levitre

TE Jared Cook
TE Fred Davis
TE Dustin Keller
TE Heath Miller

WR Dwayne Bowe
WR Greg Jennings
WR Mike Wallace

CB Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
CB Sam Shields
CB Sean Smith
CB Derek Cox
CB Captain Munnerlyn
CB Charles Tillman
CB Leodis McKelvin
CB Cary Williams
CB Jason McCourty

FS Jairus Byrd
FS Dashon Goldson
FS Glover Quin
S William Moore

OLB Shaun Phillips

DE Cliff Avril
DE/OLB Connor Barwin
DE Osi Umenyiora
DE Michael Johnson
DE Michael Bennett

DT Fili Moala
DT Randy Starks


yea but who will want to sign with us?


Plus it's not realistic to expect to sign all the best FAs. Half of which will either be franchised, resigned, or demand too much money. Lets be real ch888
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
Plus it's not realistic to expect to sign all the best FAs. Half of which will either be franchised, resigned, or demand too much money. Lets be real ch888


I didn't say there going to sign all those guys.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 16127
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Plus it's not realistic to expect to sign all the best FAs. Half of which will either be franchised, resigned, or demand too much money. Lets be real ch888


I didn't say there going to sign all those guys.


i think most of the quality guys will want to sign with contenders or big market teams. imo we arent a attractive free agent destination.......yet.
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 13216
Location: CA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Plus it's not realistic to expect to sign all the best FAs. Half of which will either be franchised, resigned, or demand too much money. Lets be real ch888


I didn't say there going to sign all those guys.


Of course not. But how many would you expect to sign? NFL teams never make more then 2 big FA signings an off-season, and that's if you have a lot of money to work with.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Plus it's not realistic to expect to sign all the best FAs. Half of which will either be franchised, resigned, or demand too much money. Lets be real ch888


I didn't say there going to sign all those guys.


Of course not. But how many would you expect to sign? NFL teams never make more then 2 big FA signings an off-season, and that's if you have a lot of money to work with.


Allot of those guys aren't big name guys I didn't include Wes Welker, Brian Urlacher, Ed Reed, Matt Schaub, Joe Flacco, Victor Cruz, Anthony Spencer, Dwight Freeney, Rashard Mendenhall, Felix Jones, Reggie Bush, Tony Gonzalez, and many more.

Seeing New England signed 15 free agents a few years ago, and the Eagles signed I don't remember how many 2 years ago they can sign 5 or more.

What ever position they can't get they address in the draft MLB there is none in free agents so that will be an issue if they let McClain go.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
ch8878 wrote:

If Carson Palmer goes down we will be a top 2 pick.


FIFY Wink


To bad they couldn't get the 2nd pick then hopefully bait some team to trade a ton of picks like the Rams got the Redskins too. Wink

It would be nice for them to trade back a few spots, and pick up a 2nd round pick we'll see how good Reggie is.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 13216
Location: CA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Plus it's not realistic to expect to sign all the best FAs. Half of which will either be franchised, resigned, or demand too much money. Lets be real ch888


I didn't say there going to sign all those guys.


Of course not. But how many would you expect to sign? NFL teams never make more then 2 big FA signings an off-season, and that's if you have a lot of money to work with.


Allot of those guys aren't big name guys I didn't include Wes Welker, Brian Urlacher, Ed Reed, Matt Schaub, Joe Flacco, Victor Cruz, Anthony Spencer, Dwight Freeney, Rashard Mendenhall, Felix Jones, Reggie Bush, Tony Gonzalez, and many more.

Seeing New England signed 15 free agents a few years ago, and the Eagles signed I don't remember how many 2 years ago they can sign 5 or more.

What ever position they can't get they address in the draft MLB there is none in free agents so that will be an issue if they let McClain go.


Pretty much all of those players are going to command a good chunk of money. Plus a lot of them won't even hit the market. We're not going to sign 5 of those players. Maybe a few stop gaps, and if we're lucky one really good player, but you don't build teams through FA.
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Plus it's not realistic to expect to sign all the best FAs. Half of which will either be franchised, resigned, or demand too much money. Lets be real ch888


I didn't say there going to sign all those guys.


Of course not. But how many would you expect to sign? NFL teams never make more then 2 big FA signings an off-season, and that's if you have a lot of money to work with.


Allot of those guys aren't big name guys I didn't include Wes Welker, Brian Urlacher, Ed Reed, Matt Schaub, Joe Flacco, Victor Cruz, Anthony Spencer, Dwight Freeney, Rashard Mendenhall, Felix Jones, Reggie Bush, Tony Gonzalez, and many more.

Seeing New England signed 15 free agents a few years ago, and the Eagles signed I don't remember how many 2 years ago they can sign 5 or more.

What ever position they can't get they address in the draft MLB there is none in free agents so that will be an issue if they let McClain go.


Pretty much all of those players are going to command a good chunk of money. Plus a lot of them won't even hit the market. We're not going to sign 5 of those players. Maybe a few stop gaps, and if we're lucky one really good player, but you don't build teams through FA.


They are going to have to address middle linebacker in the draft for sure because there isn't any except Brian Urlacher which he is old, and can't stay healthy, plus his price tag just won't be worth it.

With only 6 draft picks they are going to have no choice, but to sign allot of free agents.
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attack_in_s/b


Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 653
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO any losing team is gonne have a difficult time in F.A. and be forced to overpay. Not only are we a losing team, but it seems we have a culture of losing, its been what, 10 years and the best we've done is 8-8, the average at closer to 5-11?

I think the Eagles are a pretty good example of why you don't build through free agency. IMO if we are ever gonna turn it around, we need to learn how to draft.

IMO we should not be looking for a QBoF in this draft. It's weak for QB's especially considering how loaded last years draft was. Matt Barkley i see as being a typical USC QB with over inflated stats because he plays on arguably the most stacked offense in the league (Robert Woods, Marquis Lee,etc...). And Geno Smith i'm just not sold on, he's had some record breaking performances but nothing about him really stands out to me. He's not the first guy to put up incredible numbers.

I think RM will try to trade back, though realistically our value really drops off if we are later than pick 5. IMO Manti Te'o could very easily go top 10, which doesn't really give us too much room to trade back,and we're probably reluctant to spend another high pick on a MLB... The other guy i'm pulling for us to get is dion jordan, probably a mid first rounder which could give us excellent value in a trade. Also would be happy with Tank Carradine, should we get a 2nd round pick.

Dave Amerson is probably my favorite prospect in this draft... haven't seen a DB that dynamic since Pat Peterson or Eric Berry. Not sure where he'll go but if we got him in the 2nd it'd be a steal.

My Ideal Off-season(significant moves only):

Trade down from pick #4-6 to pick #18-20+2nd rounder+2014 2nd rounder.

1st round - Dion Jordan DE/OLB
2nd round - Dave Amerson CB/FS
3rd round - Andre Ellington RB

After that i kinda stop watching...

F.A. signings:

WR Dwayne Bowe
CB Leodis McKelvin (always thought he had a ton of potential just misfortune of playing for buffalo)
NT Terrance Knighton
RB Felix Jones (maybe being back with DMAC will help both of them)

Last: Trade Tommy Kelly to Carolina for MLB Jon Beason and a mid round pick. Kelly is actually somewhat highly regarded around the league, Beason has been injury plagued lately and Carolina has already found his replacement. Plus we have depth at DL and Kelly's not worth his contract to us.

Let me know if this is too much like a madden off-season lol.
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