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RyanFuller003


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with the way Calvin is playing so far this year. He's had about two drops that weren't easily excusable, and TDs tend to be pretty random anyway; for example, James Jones, Golden Tate, and Randall Cobb all have at least as many TDs by themselves as Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson combined. He's on pace for a career-best in catches and yards, he's coming off his best game of the season in which he set a career high for receptions, and I really don't think there's any reason to believe he's "Madden cursed."

I'd also like to throw in the fact that the Lions already have more rushing TDs right now (10) than they did all of last year (9), so part of Calvin's TD deficiency owes to the fact that the Lions are just choosing to run more in the red zone. As this relates to Stafford, this is also a big reason why he's thrown fewer TDs than last year.
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The Lurker


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your first 9 games comparison doesn't take into account how well Stafford played during the back stretch.

Here's what he did in the other 7 games:

Attempts: 301
Comp: 205
Comp %: 68.1
Yards: 2530
Y/A: 8.4
TD's: 21
INT's: 8
Rating: 106.0

Better numbers in the last seven games than he had in the first nine. Unless Stafford has a similar back stretch, he's not going to reach his 2011 numbers. This isn't even factoring in the eye test and his inconsistent mechanics, which have been a bigger problem than last year. You would also expect some progress in terms of efficiency stats over 2011, but we're not really seeing that either at this point.
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bdubs3316


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Posts: 510
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lurker wrote:
Your first 9 games comparison doesn't take into account how well Stafford played during the back stretch.

Here's what he did in the other 7 games:

Attempts: 301
Comp: 205
Comp %: 68.1
Yards: 2530
Y/A: 8.4
TD's: 21
INT's: 8
Rating: 106.0

Better numbers in the last seven games than he had in the first nine. Unless Stafford has a similar back stretch, he's not going to reach his 2011 numbers. This isn't even factoring in the eye test and his inconsistent mechanics, which have been a bigger problem than last year. You would also expect some progress in terms of efficiency stats over 2011, but we're not really seeing that either at this point.


can only use that last 7 games when he plays the last 7 games of this season. you were saying he's playing worse...when in actuality he's playing fairly similar to last year at this point.
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The Lurker


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bdubs3316 wrote:
can only use that last 7 games when he plays the last 7 games of this season. you were saying he's playing worse...when in actuality he's playing fairly similar to last year at this point.


So 2012 Stafford is statistically similar to 2011 Stafford through nine games. This is true. Therefore, that part of my Calvin argument doesn't work, so I'll concede that point. He has regressed compared to the level he was playing later in the season, and unless he puts together a similar back stretch, the totality of his season will be viewed as a regression. But that's another argument, so I'll leave it at that.

You did jump the gun however and attempt to put words in my mouth (or at my finger tips, more accurately), implying I said Stafford was garbage. Not even sure where you got that from regarding my initial post.

As far as Calvin goes, he's actually up 6 catches and 89 yards compared to where he was last season. So if this offense can find some sort of consistency, and Stafford once again plays at a high level down the stretch, we could be approaching those milestones for Megatron I was referring to earlier.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude dropped a couple of huge receptions playing through nerve damage, give him a break. It appears that he's taking some of the nastiest hits in the league every week, along with receiving the most attention defensively in the league.

Megatron is having one hell of a season all things considered.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Dude dropped a couple of huge receptions playing through nerve damage, give him a break. It appears that he's taking some of the nastiest hits in the league every week, along with receiving the most attention defensively in the league.

Megatron is having one hell of a season all things considered.
Completely agree. A few more yards on like 8 catches and he leads the NFL in TD's. And that's with Stafford and Linehan not exactly being up to his level this year.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Dude dropped a couple of huge receptions playing through nerve damage, give him a break. It appears that he's taking some of the nastiest hits in the league every week, along with receiving the most attention defensively in the league.

Megatron is having one hell of a season all things considered.


I totally agree and the rest of Detroit's offensive weapons haven't scared anyone allowing the opposition to key on CJ even more.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bdubs3316 wrote:
The Lurker wrote:
Your first 9 games comparison doesn't take into account how well Stafford played during the back stretch.

Here's what he did in the other 7 games:

Attempts: 301
Comp: 205
Comp %: 68.1
Yards: 2530
Y/A: 8.4
TD's: 21
INT's: 8
Rating: 106.0

Better numbers in the last seven games than he had in the first nine. Unless Stafford has a similar back stretch, he's not going to reach his 2011 numbers. This isn't even factoring in the eye test and his inconsistent mechanics, which have been a bigger problem than last year. You would also expect some progress in terms of efficiency stats over 2011, but we're not really seeing that either at this point.


can only use that last 7 games when he plays the last 7 games of this season. you were saying he's playing worse...when in actuality he's playing fairly similar to last year at this point.


I guess my issue with stats is they need to be broken down. While I recognize his aggregate stats are similar to last year IMHO he hasn't played as well as last year.

What also is disturbing, to me, is his lack of progression as a QB. I was hoping this would be the year he reaches the upper level of quarterbacks. He still has seven games left but I don't think it's going to happen this year.

While he has similar stats, do you think he's playing better football?

What do you see from him out there?
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Dude dropped a couple of huge receptions playing through nerve damage, give him a break. It appears that he's taking some of the nastiest hits in the league every week, along with receiving the most attention defensively in the league.

Megatron is having one hell of a season all things considered.


I totally agree and the rest of Detroit's offensive weapons haven't scared anyone allowing the opposition to key on CJ even more.


No doubt.

After watching some more of Det game breaking it down I am 100% confident the Vikings were targeting his head in the game. Schwartz will not come out and say it but I will.

There were 4 hits the defender had to guy high just to get close to his head. The need to go high on those 4 plays was not even there.

Shameful that NFL guys are willing to take each other out.
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RyanFuller003


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Lurker wrote:
Your first 9 games comparison doesn't take into account how well Stafford played during the back stretch.

Here's what he did in the other 7 games:

Attempts: 301
Comp: 205
Comp %: 68.1
Yards: 2530
Y/A: 8.4
TD's: 21
INT's: 8
Rating: 106.0

Better numbers in the last seven games than he had in the first nine. Unless Stafford has a similar back stretch, he's not going to reach his 2011 numbers. This isn't even factoring in the eye test and his inconsistent mechanics, which have been a bigger problem than last year. You would also expect some progress in terms of efficiency stats over 2011, but we're not really seeing that either at this point.

Stafford was spotty last year too and a ton of his second-half production came in 3 huge games against Carolina, San Diego, and Green Bay. He had that three game stretch in which he threw 9 INTs, and we all blamed it on "the glove" or his broken finger. Reasonable perhaps, but I also think it's reasonable to assume our increased rushing TD production has impacted his ability to throw for as many TDs as he did in the first half of last year when we had only 4 rushing TDs through 9 weeks instead of the 10 we currently have. And 3 of those 10 are from Stafford himself.

I guess my point here is that he had those same eye test problems last year, but we were more lenient because he put up some ridiculous bulk numbers when all was said and done. Imagine that instead of having ran for 10 TDs this year as we have, Stafford had thrown the extra six of them instead (and all other numbers were held constant, despite that it would also nominally increase his yardage and completion percentage). His numbers would then be:

248-388, 2,722 yards, 17 TD, 8 INT, 90.6 rating

Is that fair? Those rushing TD drives are still drives that were orchestrated by Stafford, it's just that instead of throwing a fade to CJ they let Leshoure or Bell run it in, or Stafford just did it himself. Sure, it's a little less impressive than last year's first nine games, but it's still pretty close. Maybe you might also consider if Stafford hadn't missed the last few minutes and OT of the Titans game and had been able to replicate Shaun Hill's 10-13 for 172 yards and 2 TDs, which would help his cause even more.
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bdubs3316


Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
bdubs3316 wrote:
The Lurker wrote:
Your first 9 games comparison doesn't take into account how well Stafford played during the back stretch.

Here's what he did in the other 7 games:

Attempts: 301
Comp: 205
Comp %: 68.1
Yards: 2530
Y/A: 8.4
TD's: 21
INT's: 8
Rating: 106.0

Better numbers in the last seven games than he had in the first nine. Unless Stafford has a similar back stretch, he's not going to reach his 2011 numbers. This isn't even factoring in the eye test and his inconsistent mechanics, which have been a bigger problem than last year. You would also expect some progress in terms of efficiency stats over 2011, but we're not really seeing that either at this point.


can only use that last 7 games when he plays the last 7 games of this season. you were saying he's playing worse...when in actuality he's playing fairly similar to last year at this point.


I guess my issue with stats is they need to be broken down. While I recognize his aggregate stats are similar to last year IMHO he hasn't played as well as last year.

What also is disturbing, to me, is his lack of progression as a QB. I was hoping this would be the year he reaches the upper level of quarterbacks. He still has seven games left but I don't think it's going to happen this year.

While he has similar stats, do you think he's playing better football?

What do you see from him out there?


He's disappointing me in the first half, but it's not ALL on him. There are key mistakes occurring team wide that are impacting the drives. Drops that are on the money kill drives. Errant passes on 2nd and long or 3rd down kill drives. Penalties kill drives. All of these items have been happening, so drives have been killed.

overall, he's similar to last year, maybe slightly under performing from last year. But I think a lot of people are over exaggerating his 'lack of performance'.
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