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Tugboat
Joined: 30 Mar 2011
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 Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| The LBC wrote: | I'll be the first to admit it, Phil has developed some truly poor habits. Some of it comes from trying to do too much (despite the fact that numerous people want to paint him as a crybaby and a whiner - he's the kind of feisty, stubborn-to-a-fault sort that ultimately tries to take on too much himself, often too much for his own good). Some of it's ego, I won't deny that but very few "great" QB's (not saying Rivers is presently anything remotely close to great, but just using the term for general comparison) were/are terribly humble in regards to what they're convinced they are capable of doing.
Norv has done more harm than good in the long term - yes, Rivers produced a stellar season with minimal assistance in terms of talent at the receiver positions. A good deal of that was on him, part of it was on a relatively weak schedule, and part of it was the statistical benefit that comes from having to play from behind to make up for holes your defense has put you in (that can be said for several QB's this season and last).
The fact remains, you put a less-than-mobile QB behind a sub-par line that can't create any sort of reasonable pocket and he's going to underachieve. Vincent Jackson leaving via free agency certainly wasn't a favor - it wouldn't have been as terrible had it not also been compounded by a preseason Vincent Brown injury. Much of what we're seeing in Rivers' poor decision-making comes from him forcing passes, under pressure, to the players that he quote-unquote trusts more than a number of the others; statistically speaking if Rivers had a healthy/functional Brown in addition to Gates and Floyd (who shockingly enough has managed to stay completely healthy this season which is something of a rarity) and he's likely making a few less terrible decisions (not many less, but some less).
The present system doesn't favor him. Norv's offense at this point is largely predictable - particularly on 2nd down's where any opposing coaching staff worth their salt in the film room knows that more than 70% of the time on 2nd and longer than 5 Norv is going to call a run off either the center or guard - and exactly how many QB's can you all name that have seen a great deal of success with an undrafted rookie (in their rookie season) protecting their blindside?
Trust me, there's plenty I'll fault Rivers for. One such is assuming a role as "leader" of this team and not deviating from the mentality that he has to toe the company line. If the front office and the coaching staff are making decisions that are detrimental to your production it's up to you to voice that concern. You don't do it publicly and directly to the media, rather through the proper channels, and perhaps behind closed doors, but you make it known and known well. One would think that after the 100th time of having been left out to dry and get way-layed thanks to Jeromey Clary not even bothering to get a hand on his blocking assignment, it might occur to Philip to mention to the front office they might want to at least challenge the starting RT at his spot with someone capable of unseating him. Instead there's been a steady string of swing tackles, perpetually played even in preseason at LT, utter washouts from other teams who have historically struggled at the position (see Mario Henderson), well-past-their-prime players signed only because of injury woes (see Jon Runyan), or drafted collegiate guard and DL-converts who have no hope.
Believe you me, Rivers has faults that need correcting - and in fact I'm in favor of whoever (God willing) our new coach is they at least tweak the offensive scheme (given that it's proven to be easier to re-tool new habits from previously bad ones when able to associate that learning process with the learning of a new system) a little - such that Rivers is challenged and not just completely catered to. Make the guy work - it's not like his work ethic is poor or he'll back down from that challenge - it will be to his benefit. |
A very solid post, though it will probably go under-read for length.
Rivers isn't a terrible QB. He's not the problem in SD, and he's plenty capable of winning with the right surrounding cast. He may not be completely elite and he has his issues, but if teams are interested in giving up on above average QBs for lack of talent around them...go for it!
If the Chargers want to go 'full retard' and move Rivers, i'd be happy to welcome him to the Jaguars.  It's been awhile since we had even an 'above average QB'. |
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Tugboat wrote: | | The LBC wrote: | I'll be the first to admit it, Phil has developed some truly poor habits. Some of it comes from trying to do too much (despite the fact that numerous people want to paint him as a crybaby and a whiner - he's the kind of feisty, stubborn-to-a-fault sort that ultimately tries to take on too much himself, often too much for his own good). Some of it's ego, I won't deny that but very few "great" QB's (not saying Rivers is presently anything remotely close to great, but just using the term for general comparison) were/are terribly humble in regards to what they're convinced they are capable of doing.
Norv has done more harm than good in the long term - yes, Rivers produced a stellar season with minimal assistance in terms of talent at the receiver positions. A good deal of that was on him, part of it was on a relatively weak schedule, and part of it was the statistical benefit that comes from having to play from behind to make up for holes your defense has put you in (that can be said for several QB's this season and last).
The fact remains, you put a less-than-mobile QB behind a sub-par line that can't create any sort of reasonable pocket and he's going to underachieve. Vincent Jackson leaving via free agency certainly wasn't a favor - it wouldn't have been as terrible had it not also been compounded by a preseason Vincent Brown injury. Much of what we're seeing in Rivers' poor decision-making comes from him forcing passes, under pressure, to the players that he quote-unquote trusts more than a number of the others; statistically speaking if Rivers had a healthy/functional Brown in addition to Gates and Floyd (who shockingly enough has managed to stay completely healthy this season which is something of a rarity) and he's likely making a few less terrible decisions (not many less, but some less).
The present system doesn't favor him. Norv's offense at this point is largely predictable - particularly on 2nd down's where any opposing coaching staff worth their salt in the film room knows that more than 70% of the time on 2nd and longer than 5 Norv is going to call a run off either the center or guard - and exactly how many QB's can you all name that have seen a great deal of success with an undrafted rookie (in their rookie season) protecting their blindside?
Trust me, there's plenty I'll fault Rivers for. One such is assuming a role as "leader" of this team and not deviating from the mentality that he has to toe the company line. If the front office and the coaching staff are making decisions that are detrimental to your production it's up to you to voice that concern. You don't do it publicly and directly to the media, rather through the proper channels, and perhaps behind closed doors, but you make it known and known well. One would think that after the 100th time of having been left out to dry and get way-layed thanks to Jeromey Clary not even bothering to get a hand on his blocking assignment, it might occur to Philip to mention to the front office they might want to at least challenge the starting RT at his spot with someone capable of unseating him. Instead there's been a steady string of swing tackles, perpetually played even in preseason at LT, utter washouts from other teams who have historically struggled at the position (see Mario Henderson), well-past-their-prime players signed only because of injury woes (see Jon Runyan), or drafted collegiate guard and DL-converts who have no hope.
Believe you me, Rivers has faults that need correcting - and in fact I'm in favor of whoever (God willing) our new coach is they at least tweak the offensive scheme (given that it's proven to be easier to re-tool new habits from previously bad ones when able to associate that learning process with the learning of a new system) a little - such that Rivers is challenged and not just completely catered to. Make the guy work - it's not like his work ethic is poor or he'll back down from that challenge - it will be to his benefit. |
A very solid post, though it will probably go under-read for length.
Rivers isn't a terrible QB. He's not the problem in SD, and he's plenty capable of winning with the right surrounding cast. He may not be completely elite and he has his issues, but if teams are interested in giving up on above average QBs for lack of talent around them...go for it!
If the Chargers want to go 'full retard' and move Rivers, i'd be happy to welcome him to the Jaguars. It's been awhile since we had even an 'above average QB'. |
This is why he isn't an ELITE quarterback. He's a good one, but the truly elite quarterbacks elevate the game of those around him. They can win with whatever you give them, and Philip Rivers is not one of these guys.
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The LBC
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 15512
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | Tugboat wrote: | | The LBC wrote: | I'll be the first to admit it, Phil has developed some truly poor habits. Some of it comes from trying to do too much (despite the fact that numerous people want to paint him as a crybaby and a whiner - he's the kind of feisty, stubborn-to-a-fault sort that ultimately tries to take on too much himself, often too much for his own good). Some of it's ego, I won't deny that but very few "great" QB's (not saying Rivers is presently anything remotely close to great, but just using the term for general comparison) were/are terribly humble in regards to what they're convinced they are capable of doing.
Norv has done more harm than good in the long term - yes, Rivers produced a stellar season with minimal assistance in terms of talent at the receiver positions. A good deal of that was on him, part of it was on a relatively weak schedule, and part of it was the statistical benefit that comes from having to play from behind to make up for holes your defense has put you in (that can be said for several QB's this season and last).
The fact remains, you put a less-than-mobile QB behind a sub-par line that can't create any sort of reasonable pocket and he's going to underachieve. Vincent Jackson leaving via free agency certainly wasn't a favor - it wouldn't have been as terrible had it not also been compounded by a preseason Vincent Brown injury. Much of what we're seeing in Rivers' poor decision-making comes from him forcing passes, under pressure, to the players that he quote-unquote trusts more than a number of the others; statistically speaking if Rivers had a healthy/functional Brown in addition to Gates and Floyd (who shockingly enough has managed to stay completely healthy this season which is something of a rarity) and he's likely making a few less terrible decisions (not many less, but some less).
The present system doesn't favor him. Norv's offense at this point is largely predictable - particularly on 2nd down's where any opposing coaching staff worth their salt in the film room knows that more than 70% of the time on 2nd and longer than 5 Norv is going to call a run off either the center or guard - and exactly how many QB's can you all name that have seen a great deal of success with an undrafted rookie (in their rookie season) protecting their blindside?
Trust me, there's plenty I'll fault Rivers for. One such is assuming a role as "leader" of this team and not deviating from the mentality that he has to toe the company line. If the front office and the coaching staff are making decisions that are detrimental to your production it's up to you to voice that concern. You don't do it publicly and directly to the media, rather through the proper channels, and perhaps behind closed doors, but you make it known and known well. One would think that after the 100th time of having been left out to dry and get way-layed thanks to Jeromey Clary not even bothering to get a hand on his blocking assignment, it might occur to Philip to mention to the front office they might want to at least challenge the starting RT at his spot with someone capable of unseating him. Instead there's been a steady string of swing tackles, perpetually played even in preseason at LT, utter washouts from other teams who have historically struggled at the position (see Mario Henderson), well-past-their-prime players signed only because of injury woes (see Jon Runyan), or drafted collegiate guard and DL-converts who have no hope.
Believe you me, Rivers has faults that need correcting - and in fact I'm in favor of whoever (God willing) our new coach is they at least tweak the offensive scheme (given that it's proven to be easier to re-tool new habits from previously bad ones when able to associate that learning process with the learning of a new system) a little - such that Rivers is challenged and not just completely catered to. Make the guy work - it's not like his work ethic is poor or he'll back down from that challenge - it will be to his benefit. |
A very solid post, though it will probably go under-read for length.
Rivers isn't a terrible QB. He's not the problem in SD, and he's plenty capable of winning with the right surrounding cast. He may not be completely elite and he has his issues, but if teams are interested in giving up on above average QBs for lack of talent around them...go for it!
If the Chargers want to go 'full retard' and move Rivers, i'd be happy to welcome him to the Jaguars. It's been awhile since we had even an 'above average QB'. |
This is why he isn't an ELITE quarterback. He's a good one, but the truly elite quarterbacks elevate the game of those around him. They can win with whatever you give them, and Philip Rivers is not one of these guys. |
And see I don't have a problem with that assessment. I believe the term "elite" gets horrifically overused because folks want to puff out heir chests and overpraise their team's quarterback.
"Elite" is the creme de la creme, not just the very good or even all of the great but they just plain awesome. And there will be QB's who play like elite QB's for a time or after having not done so in a while, but may not necessarily be elite. Presently you've got an elite 3 of Rodgers, Brady, and Brees, and could legitimately make a case to expand that to include Big Ben and - most likely - Eli, though for all Eli's clutchness (I won't deny he's rich with it) he's showing he's still prone to slumping, and when he slumps he SLUMPS. Ryan's still on the outside looking in as this is truly only the second season of Top 3 caliber production out of him - and we've yet to see what he does, as we have with the others, when his weapons/line are denied to him and he's forced to produce with a lesser product. Peyton's playing great this season, like the Peyton of old for the most part, but we have Peyton struggle in the past behind poor offensive lines and when his weapons start getting injured (if we're going to hold it against guys like Rivers, Cutler, etc. then it's only right to hold Peyton accountable to his poor performances under similar circumstances).
Oh joy, I just wrote another quality post that will probably get under-read because I'm long-winded. Oh well...
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| The Cryptkeeper wrote: | | He's Long, he's strong, and down to get the hittin' on. Russell got whacked. |
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Dunderhead
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 1652
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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I'm highly suspect of a thread started by a rival fan... I suspect in the near future to see either a Washington fan, Dallas fan, or Eagles fan start a "Is Eli's time up in NY almost here" thread.
This is truly ridiculous. Obviously Rivers is a franchise QB, he's relatively young. There's a lot more wrong with SD than QB... This SHOULD be common sense. |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18041
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The LBC wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | Tugboat wrote: | | The LBC wrote: | I'll be the first to admit it, Phil has developed some truly poor habits. Some of it comes from trying to do too much (despite the fact that numerous people want to paint him as a crybaby and a whiner - he's the kind of feisty, stubborn-to-a-fault sort that ultimately tries to take on too much himself, often too much for his own good). Some of it's ego, I won't deny that but very few "great" QB's (not saying Rivers is presently anything remotely close to great, but just using the term for general comparison) were/are terribly humble in regards to what they're convinced they are capable of doing.
Norv has done more harm than good in the long term - yes, Rivers produced a stellar season with minimal assistance in terms of talent at the receiver positions. A good deal of that was on him, part of it was on a relatively weak schedule, and part of it was the statistical benefit that comes from having to play from behind to make up for holes your defense has put you in (that can be said for several QB's this season and last).
The fact remains, you put a less-than-mobile QB behind a sub-par line that can't create any sort of reasonable pocket and he's going to underachieve. Vincent Jackson leaving via free agency certainly wasn't a favor - it wouldn't have been as terrible had it not also been compounded by a preseason Vincent Brown injury. Much of what we're seeing in Rivers' poor decision-making comes from him forcing passes, under pressure, to the players that he quote-unquote trusts more than a number of the others; statistically speaking if Rivers had a healthy/functional Brown in addition to Gates and Floyd (who shockingly enough has managed to stay completely healthy this season which is something of a rarity) and he's likely making a few less terrible decisions (not many less, but some less).
The present system doesn't favor him. Norv's offense at this point is largely predictable - particularly on 2nd down's where any opposing coaching staff worth their salt in the film room knows that more than 70% of the time on 2nd and longer than 5 Norv is going to call a run off either the center or guard - and exactly how many QB's can you all name that have seen a great deal of success with an undrafted rookie (in their rookie season) protecting their blindside?
Trust me, there's plenty I'll fault Rivers for. One such is assuming a role as "leader" of this team and not deviating from the mentality that he has to toe the company line. If the front office and the coaching staff are making decisions that are detrimental to your production it's up to you to voice that concern. You don't do it publicly and directly to the media, rather through the proper channels, and perhaps behind closed doors, but you make it known and known well. One would think that after the 100th time of having been left out to dry and get way-layed thanks to Jeromey Clary not even bothering to get a hand on his blocking assignment, it might occur to Philip to mention to the front office they might want to at least challenge the starting RT at his spot with someone capable of unseating him. Instead there's been a steady string of swing tackles, perpetually played even in preseason at LT, utter washouts from other teams who have historically struggled at the position (see Mario Henderson), well-past-their-prime players signed only because of injury woes (see Jon Runyan), or drafted collegiate guard and DL-converts who have no hope.
Believe you me, Rivers has faults that need correcting - and in fact I'm in favor of whoever (God willing) our new coach is they at least tweak the offensive scheme (given that it's proven to be easier to re-tool new habits from previously bad ones when able to associate that learning process with the learning of a new system) a little - such that Rivers is challenged and not just completely catered to. Make the guy work - it's not like his work ethic is poor or he'll back down from that challenge - it will be to his benefit. |
A very solid post, though it will probably go under-read for length.
Rivers isn't a terrible QB. He's not the problem in SD, and he's plenty capable of winning with the right surrounding cast. He may not be completely elite and he has his issues, but if teams are interested in giving up on above average QBs for lack of talent around them...go for it!
If the Chargers want to go 'full retard' and move Rivers, i'd be happy to welcome him to the Jaguars. It's been awhile since we had even an 'above average QB'. |
This is why he isn't an ELITE quarterback. He's a good one, but the truly elite quarterbacks elevate the game of those around him. They can win with whatever you give them, and Philip Rivers is not one of these guys. |
And see I don't have a problem with that assessment. I believe the term "elite" gets horrifically overused because folks want to puff out heir chests and overpraise their team's quarterback.
"Elite" is the creme de la creme, not just the very good or even all of the great but they just plain awesome. And there will be QB's who play like elite QB's for a time or after having not done so in a while, but may not necessarily be elite. Presently you've got an elite 3 of Rodgers, Brady, and Brees, and could legitimately make a case to expand that to include Big Ben and - most likely - Eli, though for all Eli's clutchness (I won't deny he's rich with it) he's showing he's still prone to slumping, and when he slumps he SLUMPS. Ryan's still on the outside looking in as this is truly only the second season of Top 3 caliber production out of him - and we've yet to see what he does, as we have with the others, when his weapons/line are denied to him and he's forced to produce with a lesser product. Peyton's playing great this season, like the Peyton of old for the most part, but we have Peyton struggle in the past behind poor offensive lines and when his weapons start getting injured (if we're going to hold it against guys like Rivers, Cutler, etc. then it's only right to hold Peyton accountable to his poor performances under similar circumstances).
Oh joy, I just wrote another quality post that will probably get under-read because I'm long-winded. Oh well... |
tl;dr
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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BillSabre
Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 2166
Location: Buffalo 716
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JammerHammer21 wrote: | | The LBC wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | Tugboat wrote: | | The LBC wrote: | I'll be the first to admit it, Phil has developed some truly poor habits. Some of it comes from trying to do too much (despite the fact that numerous people want to paint him as a crybaby and a whiner - he's the kind of feisty, stubborn-to-a-fault sort that ultimately tries to take on too much himself, often too much for his own good). Some of it's ego, I won't deny that but very few "great" QB's (not saying Rivers is presently anything remotely close to great, but just using the term for general comparison) were/are terribly humble in regards to what they're convinced they are capable of doing.
Norv has done more harm than good in the long term - yes, Rivers produced a stellar season with minimal assistance in terms of talent at the receiver positions. A good deal of that was on him, part of it was on a relatively weak schedule, and part of it was the statistical benefit that comes from having to play from behind to make up for holes your defense has put you in (that can be said for several QB's this season and last).
The fact remains, you put a less-than-mobile QB behind a sub-par line that can't create any sort of reasonable pocket and he's going to underachieve. Vincent Jackson leaving via free agency certainly wasn't a favor - it wouldn't have been as terrible had it not also been compounded by a preseason Vincent Brown injury. Much of what we're seeing in Rivers' poor decision-making comes from him forcing passes, under pressure, to the players that he quote-unquote trusts more than a number of the others; statistically speaking if Rivers had a healthy/functional Brown in addition to Gates and Floyd (who shockingly enough has managed to stay completely healthy this season which is something of a rarity) and he's likely making a few less terrible decisions (not many less, but some less).
The present system doesn't favor him. Norv's offense at this point is largely predictable - particularly on 2nd down's where any opposing coaching staff worth their salt in the film room knows that more than 70% of the time on 2nd and longer than 5 Norv is going to call a run off either the center or guard - and exactly how many QB's can you all name that have seen a great deal of success with an undrafted rookie (in their rookie season) protecting their blindside?
Trust me, there's plenty I'll fault Rivers for. One such is assuming a role as "leader" of this team and not deviating from the mentality that he has to toe the company line. If the front office and the coaching staff are making decisions that are detrimental to your production it's up to you to voice that concern. You don't do it publicly and directly to the media, rather through the proper channels, and perhaps behind closed doors, but you make it known and known well. One would think that after the 100th time of having been left out to dry and get way-layed thanks to Jeromey Clary not even bothering to get a hand on his blocking assignment, it might occur to Philip to mention to the front office they might want to at least challenge the starting RT at his spot with someone capable of unseating him. Instead there's been a steady string of swing tackles, perpetually played even in preseason at LT, utter washouts from other teams who have historically struggled at the position (see Mario Henderson), well-past-their-prime players signed only because of injury woes (see Jon Runyan), or drafted collegiate guard and DL-converts who have no hope.
Believe you me, Rivers has faults that need correcting - and in fact I'm in favor of whoever (God willing) our new coach is they at least tweak the offensive scheme (given that it's proven to be easier to re-tool new habits from previously bad ones when able to associate that learning process with the learning of a new system) a little - such that Rivers is challenged and not just completely catered to. Make the guy work - it's not like his work ethic is poor or he'll back down from that challenge - it will be to his benefit. |
A very solid post, though it will probably go under-read for length.
Rivers isn't a terrible QB. He's not the problem in SD, and he's plenty capable of winning with the right surrounding cast. He may not be completely elite and he has his issues, but if teams are interested in giving up on above average QBs for lack of talent around them...go for it!
If the Chargers want to go 'full retard' and move Rivers, i'd be happy to welcome him to the Jaguars. It's been awhile since we had even an 'above average QB'. |
This is why he isn't an ELITE quarterback. He's a good one, but the truly elite quarterbacks elevate the game of those around him. They can win with whatever you give them, and Philip Rivers is not one of these guys. |
And see I don't have a problem with that assessment. I believe the term "elite" gets horrifically overused because folks want to puff out heir chests and overpraise their team's quarterback.
"Elite" is the creme de la creme, not just the very good or even all of the great but they just plain awesome. And there will be QB's who play like elite QB's for a time or after having not done so in a while, but may not necessarily be elite. Presently you've got an elite 3 of Rodgers, Brady, and Brees, and could legitimately make a case to expand that to include Big Ben and - most likely - Eli, though for all Eli's clutchness (I won't deny he's rich with it) he's showing he's still prone to slumping, and when he slumps he SLUMPS. Ryan's still on the outside looking in as this is truly only the second season of Top 3 caliber production out of him - and we've yet to see what he does, as we have with the others, when his weapons/line are denied to him and he's forced to produce with a lesser product. Peyton's playing great this season, like the Peyton of old for the most part, but we have Peyton struggle in the past behind poor offensive lines and when his weapons start getting injured (if we're going to hold it against guys like Rivers, Cutler, etc. then it's only right to hold Peyton accountable to his poor performances under similar circumstances).
Oh joy, I just wrote another quality post that will probably get under-read because I'm long-winded. Oh well... |
tl;dr |
I'm sick of seeing this. Why "post" to say tl;dr? Guess what, nobody cares if you read it or not. Comment on the topic or don't post at all. Are you one of those people who thinks a real high post count is sweet? SMH
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| Tk3 wrote: | | If we "miss out" on Geno because of the trade then it will be the best trade we ever made.. |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18041
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| BillSabre wrote: | | JammerHammer21 wrote: | | The LBC wrote: | | FirstDownFaulk wrote: | | Tugboat wrote: | | The LBC wrote: | I'll be the first to admit it, Phil has developed some truly poor habits. Some of it comes from trying to do too much (despite the fact that numerous people want to paint him as a crybaby and a whiner - he's the kind of feisty, stubborn-to-a-fault sort that ultimately tries to take on too much himself, often too much for his own good). Some of it's ego, I won't deny that but very few "great" QB's (not saying Rivers is presently anything remotely close to great, but just using the term for general comparison) were/are terribly humble in regards to what they're convinced they are capable of doing.
Norv has done more harm than good in the long term - yes, Rivers produced a stellar season with minimal assistance in terms of talent at the receiver positions. A good deal of that was on him, part of it was on a relatively weak schedule, and part of it was the statistical benefit that comes from having to play from behind to make up for holes your defense has put you in (that can be said for several QB's this season and last).
The fact remains, you put a less-than-mobile QB behind a sub-par line that can't create any sort of reasonable pocket and he's going to underachieve. Vincent Jackson leaving via free agency certainly wasn't a favor - it wouldn't have been as terrible had it not also been compounded by a preseason Vincent Brown injury. Much of what we're seeing in Rivers' poor decision-making comes from him forcing passes, under pressure, to the players that he quote-unquote trusts more than a number of the others; statistically speaking if Rivers had a healthy/functional Brown in addition to Gates and Floyd (who shockingly enough has managed to stay completely healthy this season which is something of a rarity) and he's likely making a few less terrible decisions (not many less, but some less).
The present system doesn't favor him. Norv's offense at this point is largely predictable - particularly on 2nd down's where any opposing coaching staff worth their salt in the film room knows that more than 70% of the time on 2nd and longer than 5 Norv is going to call a run off either the center or guard - and exactly how many QB's can you all name that have seen a great deal of success with an undrafted rookie (in their rookie season) protecting their blindside?
Trust me, there's plenty I'll fault Rivers for. One such is assuming a role as "leader" of this team and not deviating from the mentality that he has to toe the company line. If the front office and the coaching staff are making decisions that are detrimental to your production it's up to you to voice that concern. You don't do it publicly and directly to the media, rather through the proper channels, and perhaps behind closed doors, but you make it known and known well. One would think that after the 100th time of having been left out to dry and get way-layed thanks to Jeromey Clary not even bothering to get a hand on his blocking assignment, it might occur to Philip to mention to the front office they might want to at least challenge the starting RT at his spot with someone capable of unseating him. Instead there's been a steady string of swing tackles, perpetually played even in preseason at LT, utter washouts from other teams who have historically struggled at the position (see Mario Henderson), well-past-their-prime players signed only because of injury woes (see Jon Runyan), or drafted collegiate guard and DL-converts who have no hope.
Believe you me, Rivers has faults that need correcting - and in fact I'm in favor of whoever (God willing) our new coach is they at least tweak the offensive scheme (given that it's proven to be easier to re-tool new habits from previously bad ones when able to associate that learning process with the learning of a new system) a little - such that Rivers is challenged and not just completely catered to. Make the guy work - it's not like his work ethic is poor or he'll back down from that challenge - it will be to his benefit. |
A very solid post, though it will probably go under-read for length.
Rivers isn't a terrible QB. He's not the problem in SD, and he's plenty capable of winning with the right surrounding cast. He may not be completely elite and he has his issues, but if teams are interested in giving up on above average QBs for lack of talent around them...go for it!
If the Chargers want to go 'full retard' and move Rivers, i'd be happy to welcome him to the Jaguars. It's been awhile since we had even an 'above average QB'. |
This is why he isn't an ELITE quarterback. He's a good one, but the truly elite quarterbacks elevate the game of those around him. They can win with whatever you give them, and Philip Rivers is not one of these guys. |
And see I don't have a problem with that assessment. I believe the term "elite" gets horrifically overused because folks want to puff out heir chests and overpraise their team's quarterback.
"Elite" is the creme de la creme, not just the very good or even all of the great but they just plain awesome. And there will be QB's who play like elite QB's for a time or after having not done so in a while, but may not necessarily be elite. Presently you've got an elite 3 of Rodgers, Brady, and Brees, and could legitimately make a case to expand that to include Big Ben and - most likely - Eli, though for all Eli's clutchness (I won't deny he's rich with it) he's showing he's still prone to slumping, and when he slumps he SLUMPS. Ryan's still on the outside looking in as this is truly only the second season of Top 3 caliber production out of him - and we've yet to see what he does, as we have with the others, when his weapons/line are denied to him and he's forced to produce with a lesser product. Peyton's playing great this season, like the Peyton of old for the most part, but we have Peyton struggle in the past behind poor offensive lines and when his weapons start getting injured (if we're going to hold it against guys like Rivers, Cutler, etc. then it's only right to hold Peyton accountable to his poor performances under similar circumstances).
Oh joy, I just wrote another quality post that will probably get under-read because I'm long-winded. Oh well... |
tl;dr |
I'm sick of seeing this. Why "post" to say tl;dr? Guess what, nobody cares if you read it or not. Comment on the topic or don't post at all. Are you one of those people who thinks a real high post count is sweet? SMH |
No, more like I'm a Chargers fan just messing with LBC. I agree with everything he said. 
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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tylerdouglass
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 14168
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:00 am Post subject: |
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It's not like these Chargers would be winning with most other QBs at the helm. Fix the other problems first, you can't just replace a guy like Rivers, and even if you did, it probably wouldn't solve anything
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EMG58
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: |
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theyre going to keep him for 2-3 more years. then draft this guy.
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2993
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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They need to bring back this guy....
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Stevan Ridley, Att: 225, Yds: 1010, Y/A: 4.0, TD:9
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18041
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| FirstDownFaulk wrote: | They need to bring back this guy....
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nononononononononononononononnooonnooooooooooooo
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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1BackInBlackFan
Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 4881
Location: 10 wins, PA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:47 am Post subject: |
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I don't feel Rivers' time is up but Turner's and Smith's are and have been for awhile now.
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The cool high-flying Troy sig courtesy of Lysar529. Great work! |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18041
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| 1BackInBlackFan wrote: | | I don't feel Rivers' time is up but Turner's and Smith's are and have been for awhile now. |
Yeah, and I think the real nail in the coffin for them is not prepping for a backup to Gaither. Rivers is a statue, no way to deny it. When Gaither goes down, the backup is college RT UDFA Mike Harris. I feel bad for Harris because no UDFA should have to do it, but he's just not very good (which is understandable). If we had an adequate backup solution, I don't think Rivers would look quite as bad at times. Also, Norv is really setting Rivers up to fail when he rolls him out of the pocket.
If the staff is let go, I hope we retain Pagano, Bissacia, Barry, and Joiner. Pags has done a tremendous job with poor corners, Bissacia is a good ST coordinator, the LBs look much improved under Barry, and Joiner has been coaching up good WRs sans our two big FA acquisitions, which doesn't make sense.
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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GaTechRavens
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 15551
Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Looks like the Chargers are going to fall under the radar again. Maybe I should pick them to win the AFC for the third consecutive time next year.
I hate you guys.
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| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: | | I'd much rather be in our position now than the Ravens, that's for sure. |
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18041
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| GaTechRavens wrote: | Looks like the Chargers are going to fall under the radar again. Maybe I should pick them to win the AFC for the third consecutive time next year.
I hate you guys. |
One of these days it'll come true right? Right?
Right? 
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| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
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