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TL-TwoWinsAway
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| stylish313 wrote: | | If Willie Young or Lo Jack can't supplant KVB, then they're just not that good. Period. |
This wont surprise you, but I disagree completely. If you think KVB is starting based on his ability alone, I think you are mistaken.
| stylish313 wrote: | | Yet, the prevalent opinion around here was that given more snaps, Young could match Avril and maybe even surpass Avril's production last season, of 11 sacks and 6 FFs.....production we've rarely ever enjoyed at DE here in Detroit. It's clear that even with advanced snaps, Willie is nowhere near Avril's level and Avril won't be as easily replaced as you once claimed. |
Actually, the prevalent opinion (and my opinion) was that Young's production at $500k was more valuable than Avril's production at $11M.
Do you have Young and Avril's snaps for this season? I'm curious: because of life, I haven't been able to watch nearly as much as I'd like.
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stylish313
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 13818
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | Do you have Young and Avril's snaps for this season? I'm curious: because of life, I haven't been able to watch nearly as much as I'd like. |
I'm getting this from PFF, so I've paid for this info.
Avril- 484 snaps
Young- 247 snaps
But more interestingly, KVB- 490 snaps. So if the Lions are starting KVB for his ability, then why does he have the most snaps of any Lion DE??? That speaks volumes about Young's ability IMO. Like I said before the season, Willie Young was the most overrated player in Detroit Sports this year.
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21974
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| IDOG_det wrote: | | stylish313 wrote: | | IDOG_det wrote: | | Jrugges wrote: | | Don't we have the same "type" of RB's in Leshoure/Bell? |
Lacy has that scat back stlye though. He's big and can run through guys, but is elusive, quick and fast as well. |
He looks like Leshoure to me, maybe before the achilles injury. Still, I'd rather just draft a pure 3rd down speed compliment later in the draft. |
I mean, if you want a late round guy with a much smaller chance of being good, so be it, but I think Lacy will be a special RB in this league. |
It's hard to truly evaluate a back when he's running behind such a dominant oline. I understand everyone wanting to find a player with Best's ability but at some point other areas of need really need to be addressed.
The team has spent valuable resources on weapons in each draft. It's time to spend some of those resources elsewhere especially with the age of the oline.
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IDOG_det
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 11913
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| diehardlionfan wrote: | | IDOG_det wrote: | | stylish313 wrote: | | IDOG_det wrote: | | Jrugges wrote: | | Don't we have the same "type" of RB's in Leshoure/Bell? |
Lacy has that scat back stlye though. He's big and can run through guys, but is elusive, quick and fast as well. |
He looks like Leshoure to me, maybe before the achilles injury. Still, I'd rather just draft a pure 3rd down speed compliment later in the draft. |
I mean, if you want a late round guy with a much smaller chance of being good, so be it, but I think Lacy will be a special RB in this league. |
It's hard to truly evaluate a back when he's running behind such a dominant oline. I understand everyone wanting to find a player with Best's ability but at some point other areas of need really need to be addressed.
The team has spent valuable resources on weapons in each draft. It's time to spend some of those resources elsewhere especially with the age of the oline. |
And I completely agree, I just would love Lacy on the team. Is he my first choice? No. Second choice? No. A great choice? Yes. And, something Lacy does well is find the hole. Not a lot of RB's do it as well as him and it's a great trait for RB's. He is also amazing in space and can break it at any point. I'll say this, he's more powerful than Ingram. He's more elusive than Richardson. Probably faster than both. About the same height & weight. His physical traits are amazing and really the only thing I've yet to see him do great yet is block (from a lack of watching him block).
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stylish313
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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Location: Flat Rock, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| IDOG_det wrote: | | And, something Lacy does well is find the hole. |
LOL. When you've got Jones and Warmack opening up holes for you, that's really not that hard to do. I've gotta say that point is underwhelming.
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TL-TwoWinsAway
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | Do you have Young and Avril's snaps for this season? I'm curious: because of life, I haven't been able to watch nearly as much as I'd like. |
I'm getting this from PFF, so I've paid for this info.
Avril- 484 snaps
Young- 247 snaps
But more interestingly, KVB- 490 snaps. So if the Lions are starting KVB for his ability, then why does he have the most snaps of any Lion DE??? That speaks volumes about Young's ability IMO. Like I said before the season, Willie Young was the most overrated player in Detroit Sports this year. |
That's my point: KVB is NOT starting because of his ability. He's starting because of his leadership, work ethic, and role on this team. If YOU think he's starting because of his ability, you are mistaken. (In my opinion.)
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| kenney wrote: | | Stafford without Calvin Johnson is a mediocre QB |
- Said on 8/16/2012. |
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stylish313
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 13818
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | Do you have Young and Avril's snaps for this season? I'm curious: because of life, I haven't been able to watch nearly as much as I'd like. |
I'm getting this from PFF, so I've paid for this info.
Avril- 484 snaps
Young- 247 snaps
But more interestingly, KVB- 490 snaps. So if the Lions are starting KVB for his ability, then why does he have the most snaps of any Lion DE??? That speaks volumes about Young's ability IMO. Like I said before the season, Willie Young was the most overrated player in Detroit Sports this year. |
That's my point: KVB is NOT starting because of his ability. He's starting because of his leadership, work ethic, and role on this team. If YOU think he's starting because of his ability, you are mistaken. (In my opinion.) |
Intangibles wouldn't land you twice as many snaps as a more talented, productive player. KVB is playing that many snaps because Willie Young and Lo Jack just aren't that good.
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TL-TwoWinsAway
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 24079
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | Do you have Young and Avril's snaps for this season? I'm curious: because of life, I haven't been able to watch nearly as much as I'd like. |
I'm getting this from PFF, so I've paid for this info.
Avril- 484 snaps
Young- 247 snaps
But more interestingly, KVB- 490 snaps. So if the Lions are starting KVB for his ability, then why does he have the most snaps of any Lion DE??? That speaks volumes about Young's ability IMO. Like I said before the season, Willie Young was the most overrated player in Detroit Sports this year. |
That's my point: KVB is NOT starting because of his ability. He's starting because of his leadership, work ethic, and role on this team. If YOU think he's starting because of his ability, you are mistaken. (In my opinion.) |
Intangibles wouldn't land you twice as many snaps as a more talented, productive player. KVB is playing that many snaps because Willie Young and Lo Jack just aren't that good. |
Intangibles can absolutely land someone in a starting role, hence why KVB is starting.
Neither of us will change our minds on this, so lets just agree to disagree.
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| kenney wrote: | | Stafford without Calvin Johnson is a mediocre QB |
- Said on 8/16/2012. |
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stylish313
Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 13818
Location: Flat Rock, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | Do you have Young and Avril's snaps for this season? I'm curious: because of life, I haven't been able to watch nearly as much as I'd like. |
I'm getting this from PFF, so I've paid for this info.
Avril- 484 snaps
Young- 247 snaps
But more interestingly, KVB- 490 snaps. So if the Lions are starting KVB for his ability, then why does he have the most snaps of any Lion DE??? That speaks volumes about Young's ability IMO. Like I said before the season, Willie Young was the most overrated player in Detroit Sports this year. |
That's my point: KVB is NOT starting because of his ability. He's starting because of his leadership, work ethic, and role on this team. If YOU think he's starting because of his ability, you are mistaken. (In my opinion.) |
Intangibles wouldn't land you twice as many snaps as a more talented, productive player. KVB is playing that many snaps because Willie Young and Lo Jack just aren't that good. |
Intangibles can absolutely land someone in a starting role, hence why KVB is starting.
Neither of us will change our minds on this, so lets just agree to disagree. |
The thing is, you're not debating my point. Starting doesn't guarantee you a ton of snaps. KVB has almost doubled Young's snaps. Same for Lo Jack. Intangibles alone wouldn't account for that. The better player in the coaches eyes is gonna play more. And if they thought that they were close in ability, the snaps would at least be closer.
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TL-TwoWinsAway
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 24079
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| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | stylish313 wrote: | | TL-TwoWinsAway wrote: | | Do you have Young and Avril's snaps for this season? I'm curious: because of life, I haven't been able to watch nearly as much as I'd like. |
I'm getting this from PFF, so I've paid for this info.
Avril- 484 snaps
Young- 247 snaps
But more interestingly, KVB- 490 snaps. So if the Lions are starting KVB for his ability, then why does he have the most snaps of any Lion DE??? That speaks volumes about Young's ability IMO. Like I said before the season, Willie Young was the most overrated player in Detroit Sports this year. |
That's my point: KVB is NOT starting because of his ability. He's starting because of his leadership, work ethic, and role on this team. If YOU think he's starting because of his ability, you are mistaken. (In my opinion.) |
Intangibles wouldn't land you twice as many snaps as a more talented, productive player. KVB is playing that many snaps because Willie Young and Lo Jack just aren't that good. |
Intangibles can absolutely land someone in a starting role, hence why KVB is starting.
Neither of us will change our minds on this, so lets just agree to disagree. |
The thing is, you're not debating my point. Starting doesn't guarantee you a ton of snaps. KVB has almost doubled Young's snaps. Same for Lo Jack. Intangibles alone wouldn't account for that. The better player in the coaches eyes is gonna play more. And if they thought that they were close in ability, the snaps would at least be closer. |
In this scheme, with these roles at DE, starting absolutely guarantees you more snaps. This isn't a situation where KVB and Willie are viewed as fulfilling different 'situations'... it's the same role. And intangibles absolutely account for that.
You're confusion here is that you think "better player" equates to "more ability". KVB's work ethic, leadership and experience could absolutely make him the "better player", and put him in a starting role over someone with more ability. (If this was a video game, where it was all about numbers on a page, I would agree with you. It's not. Intangibles matter a great deal.)
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| kenney wrote: | | Stafford without Calvin Johnson is a mediocre QB |
- Said on 8/16/2012. |
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Lionsfanforever
Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 4360
Location: Brighton, MI
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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What bowl matchup will you guys be watching? I'll be keeping an eye Lewan vs Clowney, and Bama's OL vs Notre Dame's DL and Te'o
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IDOG_det
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 11913
Location: here
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Lionsfanforever wrote: | | What bowl matchup will you guys be watching? I'll be keeping an eye Lewan vs Clowney, and Bama's OL vs Notre Dame's DL and Te'o |
Clowney will probably handle Lewan, but that's no knock on Lewan. Bama OL is probably going to win against the ND DL.
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usedaschwartz
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd love to see Margus Hunt as a Lion. Now that's the European I want. No to Bjorn, yes to Margus. |
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DrRay11
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 2124
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| usedaschwartz wrote: | | I'd love to see Margus Hunt as a Lion. Now that's the European I want. No to Bjorn, yes to Margus. |
I absolutely agree. Trying to work him into my mock somewhere, we play a scheme where he could prove extremely valuable - not as much thinking in the wide 9 as some for a DE
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diehardlionfan
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 21974
Location: Ottawa
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| IDOG_det wrote: | | Lionsfanforever wrote: | | What bowl matchup will you guys be watching? I'll be keeping an eye Lewan vs Clowney, and Bama's OL vs Notre Dame's DL and Te'o |
Clowney will probably handle Lewan, but that's no knock on Lewan. Bama OL is probably going to win against the ND DL. |
It's going to be an interesting matchup. I'm very interested in Alabama's oline.
I'm also interested in the Cotton Bowl. Texas A and M against Oklahoma.
I want to see how Lane Johnson and Tony Jefferson play. I haven't been totally sold on Jefferson because any of the games I've watched very little is thrown his way. I don't think that will be the case with Johnny football. He's going to air it out all over the field.
I will also be watching Tom Wort, Michael Lamothe.
I'm very interested in the Alamo Bowl, Chic-fil-a Bowl, Capital One Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, and the Orange Bowl.
I will most likely watch all the bowl games but those listed interest me the most.
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