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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
I wasn't enamoured with giving Avril the big contract because I wasn't convinced he was worth the money after one season. In fact I argued against the big contract.

Based on this seasons performance I think he has earned the contract and they need to get him signed. He has shown consistency to his game.

With that said I want them to acquire via draft, free agency or trade,

Safety, DE, OG, OC.

In the first round they can't lose by taking the best available player at any of those positions.
Yeah, I actually felt he'd proven his consistency. He'd been prone to forcing TO's since his rookie season, and had a floor of 5 sacks in a totally different scheme as a part-time player.

I undoubtedly believed 2010 should've been his first double-digit sack season, but wasn't due to him missing the entire TC with a hamstring injury, and beginning that season hindered over the first several games with that same injury.

I wouldn't wanna franchise him again, because his cap hit will be higher and it will only cause more of the same problems this off-season. I'd love to sign him long-term though, so that we can focus on developing some depth opposite him, and spending our prime resources on the areas you've highlighted- saftey(Matt Elam), OG(Chance Warmack- our 1st round selection Pray ), DE(I'm skeptical of these smaller DE's in this year's draft), OC(Barret Jones)
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
I wasn't enamoured with giving Avril the big contract because I wasn't convinced he was worth the money after one season. In fact I argued against the big contract.

Based on this seasons performance I think he has earned the contract and they need to get him signed. He has shown consistency to his game.

With that said I want them to acquire via draft, free agency or trade,

Safety, DE, OG, OC.

In the first round they can't lose by taking the best available player at any of those positions.
Yeah, I actually felt he'd proven his consistency. He'd been prone to forcing TO's since his rookie season, and had a floor of 5 sacks in a totally different scheme as a part-time player.

I undoubtedly believed 2010 should've been his first double-digit sack season, but wasn't due to him missing the entire TC with a hamstring injury, and beginning that season hindered over the first several games with that same injury.

I wouldn't wanna franchise him again, because his cap hit will be higher and it will only cause more of the same problems this off-season. I'd love to sign him long-term though, so that we can focus on developing some depth opposite him, and spending our prime resources on the areas you've highlighted- saftey(Matt Elam), OG(Chance Warmack- our 1st round selection Pray ), DE(I'm skeptical of these smaller DE's in this year's draft), OC(Barret Jones)


If I were Mayhew I would simply do what it takes, within reason to get Avril locked up.

Then I would see what I have to do in an attempt to draft both Warmack and Jones.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
I wasn't enamoured with giving Avril the big contract because I wasn't convinced he was worth the money after one season. In fact I argued against the big contract.

Based on this seasons performance I think he has earned the contract and they need to get him signed. He has shown consistency to his game.

With that said I want them to acquire via draft, free agency or trade,

Safety, DE, OG, OC.

In the first round they can't lose by taking the best available player at any of those positions.
Yeah, I actually felt he'd proven his consistency. He'd been prone to forcing TO's since his rookie season, and had a floor of 5 sacks in a totally different scheme as a part-time player.

I undoubtedly believed 2010 should've been his first double-digit sack season, but wasn't due to him missing the entire TC with a hamstring injury, and beginning that season hindered over the first several games with that same injury.

I wouldn't wanna franchise him again, because his cap hit will be higher and it will only cause more of the same problems this off-season. I'd love to sign him long-term though, so that we can focus on developing some depth opposite him, and spending our prime resources on the areas you've highlighted- saftey(Matt Elam), OG(Chance Warmack- our 1st round selection Pray ), DE(I'm skeptical of these smaller DE's in this year's draft), OC(Barret Jones)


If I were Mayhew I would simply do what it takes, within reason to get Avril locked up.

Then I would see what I have to do in an attempt to draft both Warmack and Jones.
I'd sign off on that, with re-signing Houston being my only other stipulation. I believe he has to be our top priority this off-season, with Avril trailing at a close 2nd.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
LionsFan630 wrote:
Avril has 7.5 sacks this year. Probably not worth the money he's getting but that's far from insignificant.
And all the other DEs are sucking it up. Just proves my arguments in the off season right.....you couldn't just plug anybody into Avril's spot and replicate the production he provides. He's a lot better than people wanted to give him credit for, and he's being successful even after holding out the entire off-season.......something the vast majority of hold outs find impossible to accomplish.

He's not worth the franchise tag I know, but I really wish we would've locked him up long-term two off-seasons ago.

Wait... how did this season prove your offseason argument right? Avril still took Avril's snaps this year, so it's unknown if someone else would have produced the way he did this year.

And, actually, weren't you willing to give him a big contract? If so, and you now feel he isn't worth the tag, didn't this season prove you wrong?
What you're claiming to be a"big" contract was the market value for a double-digit sack caliber DE. And the fact none of our back-ups could supplant KVB was a huge aspect of our 100s of pages of debating.

The fact is Avril is a proven, productive player with no off the field problems, or injury concerns. He is worth whatever I wanted to pay him, and this season has confirmed that.

If you think KVB starting proves that another DE couldn't produce from Avril's position, with Avril's snaps, then I disagree. I see those as being two completely separate situations, and the first doesn't "prove" the second.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want Eddie Lacy. His is embarrasing this Georgia defense. Ran through Jarvis Jones and Shawn Williams, then made my boy Rambo look bad. Out sprinted a few guys too. If we get him in the 2nd, I'd love it.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
LionsFan630 wrote:
Avril has 7.5 sacks this year. Probably not worth the money he's getting but that's far from insignificant.
And all the other DEs are sucking it up. Just proves my arguments in the off season right.....you couldn't just plug anybody into Avril's spot and replicate the production he provides. He's a lot better than people wanted to give him credit for, and he's being successful even after holding out the entire off-season.......something the vast majority of hold outs find impossible to accomplish.

He's not worth the franchise tag I know, but I really wish we would've locked him up long-term two off-seasons ago.

Wait... how did this season prove your offseason argument right? Avril still took Avril's snaps this year, so it's unknown if someone else would have produced the way he did this year.

And, actually, weren't you willing to give him a big contract? If so, and you now feel he isn't worth the tag, didn't this season prove you wrong?
What you're claiming to be a"big" contract was the market value for a double-digit sack caliber DE. And the fact none of our back-ups could supplant KVB was a huge aspect of our 100s of pages of debating.

The fact is Avril is a proven, productive player with no off the field problems, or injury concerns. He is worth whatever I wanted to pay him, and this season has confirmed that.

If you think KVB starting proves that another DE couldn't produce from Avril's position, with Avril's snaps, then I disagree. I see those as being two completely separate situations, and the first doesn't "prove" the second.

If you think Avril is worth what you wanted to pay him before, which was a contract equal to (or greater than) the franchise tag, why did you say above that he isn't worth the franchise tag now?
If Willie Young or Lo Jack can't supplant KVB, then they're just not that good. Period.

I was willing to pay Avril a contract that would've given him the potential to average what he's currently earning on the franchise tag, but we all know the structures of NFL contracts doesn't guarantee players that amount.....they still have to earn it.

Yet, the prevalent opinion around here was that given more snaps, Young could match Avril and maybe even surpass Avril's production last season, of 11 sacks and 6 FFs.....production we've rarely ever enjoyed at DE here in Detroit. It's clear that even with advanced snaps, Willie is nowhere near Avril's level and Avril won't be as easily replaced as you once claimed.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
I want Eddie Lacy. His is embarrasing this Georgia defense. Ran through Jarvis Jones and Shawn Williams, then made my boy Rambo look bad. Out sprinted a few guys too. If we get him in the 2nd, I'd love it.
No. No. No. It's true he's a solid down-hill runner, but the fact Jones and Warmack are dominating cannot be overlooked. Give me those two, and Leshoure and/or Bell should be able to consistently look just as good in the Pro's.
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Jrugges


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
I wasn't enamoured with giving Avril the big contract because I wasn't convinced he was worth the money after one season. In fact I argued against the big contract.

Based on this seasons performance I think he has earned the contract and they need to get him signed. He has shown consistency to his game.

With that said I want them to acquire via draft, free agency or trade,

Safety, DE, OG, OC.

In the first round they can't lose by taking the best available player at any of those positions.
Yeah, I actually felt he'd proven his consistency. He'd been prone to forcing TO's since his rookie season, and had a floor of 5 sacks in a totally different scheme as a part-time player.

I undoubtedly believed 2010 should've been his first double-digit sack season, but wasn't due to him missing the entire TC with a hamstring injury, and beginning that season hindered over the first several games with that same injury.

I wouldn't wanna franchise him again, because his cap hit will be higher and it will only cause more of the same problems this off-season. I'd love to sign him long-term though, so that we can focus on developing some depth opposite him, and spending our prime resources on the areas you've highlighted- saftey(Matt Elam), OG(Chance Warmack- our 1st round selection Pray ), DE(I'm skeptical of these smaller DE's in this year's draft), OC(Barret Jones)


I'm on the opposite fence guys. He's not proven to me he's a 10 million dollar player per year, to me. He's gotten 7.5 sacks, sure, but 4 of them are from 2 games. Week 2-6 he was non existant, not even registering a tackle against S.F. in week 2. And from week 8-9-10 he wasn't posting sacks with only 4 tackles.

These last two games he's stood out, sure, with 3 tackles, and 3 sacks in two games against G.B./Hou but it doesn't tell the whole story of his play, especailly how bad he gets ran against, still.

I still have the same stance on Avril as I did before. He's worth a Jason Babin type contract of 5 years 30 million.(Eagles gave Babin a 5 year 28.5 million dollar deal).

I mean I like Avril, but he's not Charles Johnson. CharlesJohnson does literally everything you just said better than Avril. So, yeah Idk what to do with him. I'm willing to trade him for value at this point because I dont' think it's worth franchising him again and crimpling the cap space, and I don't think he'll settle on a reasonable long-term deal without testing the open-market first, where some team is EXTREMELY likely to over pay for him. Getting picks, or a player of decent value at a position of need else where would be my move with Avril, though many would disagree with me because there isn't a clear cut replacement or even plan in place to plug in at DE. Obviously though, my first coarse of action is to try and get Avril under a reasonable contract.


Last edited by Jrugges on Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jrugges


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I want Eddie Lacy. His is embarrasing this Georgia defense. Ran through Jarvis Jones and Shawn Williams, then made my boy Rambo look bad. Out sprinted a few guys too. If we get him in the 2nd, I'd love it.
No. No. No. It's true he's a solid down-hill runner, but the fact Jones and Warmack are dominating cannot be overlooked. Give me those two, and Leshoure and/or Bell should be able to consistently look just as good in the Pro's.


I have to agree with this.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
I want Eddie Lacy. His is embarrasing this Georgia defense. Ran through Jarvis Jones and Shawn Williams, then made my boy Rambo look bad. Out sprinted a few guys too. If we get him in the 2nd, I'd love it.
No. No. No. It's true he's a solid down-hill runner, but the fact Jones and Warmack are dominating cannot be overlooked. Give me those two, and Leshoure and/or Bell should be able to consistently look just as good in the Pro's.


I have to agree with this.
I'd love them too, but I think Lacy is just too good of a playmaker to be overlooked. I really think he could be Best's replacement.
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Jrugges


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't we have the same "type" of RB's in Leshoure/Bell?
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
Don't we have the same "type" of RB's in Leshoure/Bell?
Lacy has that scat back stlye though. He's big and can run through guys, but is elusive, quick and fast as well.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
Jrugges wrote:
Don't we have the same "type" of RB's in Leshoure/Bell?
Lacy has that scat back stlye though. He's big and can run through guys, but is elusive, quick and fast as well.
He looks like Leshoure to me, maybe before the achilles injury. Still, I'd rather just draft a pure 3rd down speed compliment later in the draft.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Jrugges wrote:
Don't we have the same "type" of RB's in Leshoure/Bell?
Lacy has that scat back stlye though. He's big and can run through guys, but is elusive, quick and fast as well.
He looks like Leshoure to me, maybe before the achilles injury. Still, I'd rather just draft a pure 3rd down speed compliment later in the draft.
I mean, if you want a late round guy with a much smaller chance of being good, so be it, but I think Lacy will be a special RB in this league.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Jrugges wrote:
Don't we have the same "type" of RB's in Leshoure/Bell?
Lacy has that scat back stlye though. He's big and can run through guys, but is elusive, quick and fast as well.
He looks like Leshoure to me, maybe before the achilles injury. Still, I'd rather just draft a pure 3rd down speed compliment later in the draft.
I mean, if you want a late round guy with a much smaller chance of being good, so be it, but I think Lacy will be a special RB in this league.
Not on our team, not with our OL. He will just be part of the platoon, and he doesn't even add a different dimension to our offense.
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