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DrRay11


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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Location: Chicago, IL
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Draft Star Lotulelei, move Suh to DE (let him drop weight to 285ish, which he prefers playing at anyway), retain SLH and Avril, and let Corey Williams walk and KVB retire? Avril and Young could rotate at one spot, with Suh at the other, and Lotulelei/Fairley/SLH in the middle.

Scary.


I've been toying with this scenario as well. Could make a lot of sense come April.
Lotulelei would be expensive to get. John Jenkins could be a better traditional NT IMO.


Expensive? What do you mean?

Do you also mean Hankins?
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrRay11 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Draft Star Lotulelei, move Suh to DE (let him drop weight to 285ish, which he prefers playing at anyway), retain SLH and Avril, and let Corey Williams walk and KVB retire? Avril and Young could rotate at one spot, with Suh at the other, and Lotulelei/Fairley/SLH in the middle.

Scary.


I've been toying with this scenario as well. Could make a lot of sense come April.
Lotulelei would be expensive to get. John Jenkins could be a better traditional NT IMO.


Expensive? What do you mean?

Do you also mean Hankins?
Expensice meaning trading into the top 5. And no, I meant John Jenkins from Georgia. Hankins is a 3-4 DE.
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't wanna move Suh to DE, he's doing fine with Fairley next to him in the middle. Our defense will be extremely dangerous once we land some legit back end playmakers to go along with Houston and Co.
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DrRay11


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
I don't wanna move Suh to DE, he's doing fine with Fairley next to him in the middle. Our defense will be extremely dangerous once we land some legit back end playmakers to go along with Houston and Co.


We are going to need DEs one way or another. Avril not worth 10+m a year and KVB is done.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
I don't wanna move Suh to DE, he's doing fine with Fairley next to him in the middle. Our defense will be extremely dangerous once we land some legit back end playmakers to go along with Houston and Co.


We are going to need DEs one way or another. Avril not worth 10+m a year and KVB is done.
Funny how everybody is panicking over DEs all of a sudden. I spent months arguing over the importance of DEs last off-season, and all I heard was about how we could throw just about anybody there and they'll have success.

Look, there's more than one way to skin a cat. We need safety help as bad, and probably worst than at DE. Moving Suh to DE won't help that fact. I guarantee, land some legit safeties, and we'll be fine on defense.
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Last edited by stylish313 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DrRay11


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
I don't wanna move Suh to DE, he's doing fine with Fairley next to him in the middle. Our defense will be extremely dangerous once we land some legit back end playmakers to go along with Houston and Co.


We are going to need DEs one way or another. Avril not worth 10+m a year and KVB is done.
Funny how everybody is panicking over DEs all of a sudden. I spent months arguing over the importance of DEs last off-season, and all I heard was about how we could throw just about anybody there and they'll have success.

Look, there's more than one way to skin a cat. We need safety help as bad, and probably worst than at DE. Moving Suh to DE won't help that fact. I guarantee, land some legit safeties, and we'll be fine on defense.


I wasn't one of the folks trying to sell that. I know we can go other directions, ultimately I want to go BPA, and NT might be a choice when we pick. Maybe not.
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JSMcTilty


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Jefferson playing lights out today vs. TCU today.
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
I don't wanna move Suh to DE, he's doing fine with Fairley next to him in the middle. Our defense will be extremely dangerous once we land some legit back end playmakers to go along with Houston and Co.


We are going to need DEs one way or another. Avril not worth 10+m a year and KVB is done.
Funny how everybody is panicking over DEs all of a sudden. I spent months arguing over the importance of DEs last off-season, and all I heard was about how we could throw just about anybody there and they'll have success.

Look, there's more than one way to skin a cat. We need safety help as bad, and probably worst than at DE. Moving Suh to DE won't help that fact. I guarantee, land some legit safeties, and we'll be fine on defense.


I agree. We will be short on safties, but I am honestly ok plugging some scrubs in and dealing with what they give us. Avril and KVB havent done much and still if we had some S's we would be better this year. Resign Willie and Lo Jack. Let Ronnell Lewis get some reps and sign another scrub or draft one in the 2-4th round. Add that to a couple new peices in the back end of the D and I think we will be better than this years D by a decent margin.
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LionsFan630


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avril has 7.5 sacks this year. Probably not worth the money he's getting but that's far from insignificant.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFan630 wrote:
Avril has 7.5 sacks this year. Probably not worth the money he's getting but that's far from insignificant.
And all the other DEs are sucking it up. Just proves my arguments in the off season right.....you couldn't just plug anybody into Avril's spot and replicate the production he provides. He's a lot better than people wanted to give him credit for, and he's being successful even after holding out the entire off-season.......something the vast majority of hold outs find impossible to accomplish.

He's not worth the franchise tag I know, but I really wish we would've locked him up long-term two off-seasons ago.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
I don't wanna move Suh to DE, he's doing fine with Fairley next to him in the middle. Our defense will be extremely dangerous once we land some legit back end playmakers to go along with Houston and Co.


We are going to need DEs one way or another. Avril not worth 10+m a year and KVB is done.
Funny how everybody is panicking over DEs all of a sudden. I spent months arguing over the importance of DEs last off-season, and all I heard was about how we could throw just about anybody there and they'll have success.

Look, there's more than one way to skin a cat. We need safety help as bad, and probably worst than at DE. Moving Suh to DE won't help that fact. I guarantee, land some legit safeties, and we'll be fine on defense.

Well, DE is certainly more of a need now, after watching our current DEs underwhelm this season.

That being said, drafting Star and moving Suh to DE isn't panicking... it's just a different way to skin that cat. You could always take a safety in round 2, while adding an elite DT and an elite DE.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
LionsFan630 wrote:
Avril has 7.5 sacks this year. Probably not worth the money he's getting but that's far from insignificant.
And all the other DEs are sucking it up. Just proves my arguments in the off season right.....you couldn't just plug anybody into Avril's spot and replicate the production he provides. He's a lot better than people wanted to give him credit for, and he's being successful even after holding out the entire off-season.......something the vast majority of hold outs find impossible to accomplish.

He's not worth the franchise tag I know, but I really wish we would've locked him up long-term two off-seasons ago.

Wait... how did this season prove your offseason argument right? Avril still took Avril's snaps this year, so it's unknown if someone else would have produced the way he did this year.

And, actually, weren't you willing to give him a big contract? If so, and you now feel he isn't worth the tag, didn't this season prove you wrong?
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
LionsFan630 wrote:
Avril has 7.5 sacks this year. Probably not worth the money he's getting but that's far from insignificant.
And all the other DEs are sucking it up. Just proves my arguments in the off season right.....you couldn't just plug anybody into Avril's spot and replicate the production he provides. He's a lot better than people wanted to give him credit for, and he's being successful even after holding out the entire off-season.......something the vast majority of hold outs find impossible to accomplish.

He's not worth the franchise tag I know, but I really wish we would've locked him up long-term two off-seasons ago.

Wait... how did this season prove your offseason argument right? Avril still took Avril's snaps this year, so it's unknown if someone else would have produced the way he did this year.

And, actually, weren't you willing to give him a big contract? If so, and you now feel he isn't worth the tag, didn't this season prove you wrong?
What you're claiming to be a"big" contract was the market value for a double-digit sack caliber DE. And the fact none of our back-ups could supplant KVB was a huge aspect of our 100s of pages of debating.

The fact is Avril is a proven, productive player with no off the field problems, or injury concerns. He is worth whatever I wanted to pay him, and this season has confirmed that.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't enamoured with giving Avril the big contract because I wasn't convinced he was worth the money after one season. In fact I argued against the big contract.

Based on this seasons performance I think he has earned the contract and they need to get him signed. He has shown consistency to his game.

With that said I want them to acquire via draft, free agency or trade,

Safety, DE, OG, OC.

In the first round they can't lose by taking the best available player at any of those positions.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
DrRay11 wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
I don't wanna move Suh to DE, he's doing fine with Fairley next to him in the middle. Our defense will be extremely dangerous once we land some legit back end playmakers to go along with Houston and Co.


We are going to need DEs one way or another. Avril not worth 10+m a year and KVB is done.
Funny how everybody is panicking over DEs all of a sudden. I spent months arguing over the importance of DEs last off-season, and all I heard was about how we could throw just about anybody there and they'll have success.

Look, there's more than one way to skin a cat. We need safety help as bad, and probably worst than at DE. Moving Suh to DE won't help that fact. I guarantee, land some legit safeties, and we'll be fine on defense.


I don't disagree about the safety need but I'm not opposed to them moving Suh to DE.

I think if they were to do that it would signify they thought he could be effective.

It wouldn't be my preferred option though.

I like the way the interior dline plays and with the depth they have I would like to see them stay together. The one exception being if they had a decent trade offer for a DT not named Suh or Fairley.

If the secondary could provide the dline with one more second it would be significant.
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