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Where did it all go wrong - 2005 to 2008 drafts
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Remixxxxxxx


Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 12339
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McNabb2Maclin wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
Remixxxxxxx wrote:
Quote:
just because played better with a different team doesnt mean that we didnt do a good job.


...but, we don't do a good job. We don't go a good job evaluating talent, nor do we do a good job developing talent.


evaluating talent yes, developing no.

how many players have actually left and become real quality starters? every team will have players that leave and do better somewhere else but how many have we lost and we really missed?


Chris Gocong, Kevin Kolb, Winston Justice, Brodrick Bunkley, Danny Amendola, Brandon Gibson.

We don't develop anyone, the majoriy of our "talent" are signed free agents[DRC, Nnamdi, DeMeco, Jenkins, Babin, Peters, Mathis, Vick, Landri, Tapp] and the players we did draft, we haven't done a good job developing{Watkins, Maclin, Avant, Coleman, Allen, Marsh, Jordan, Matthews, Hunt].

We're equally as bad at evaluating talent as we are developing the talent.


Of the players you listed that have had "success" elsewhere due to not being developed here, only two are valid examples.


I believe all six of them have had success, don't understand how you can only say two. Have you watched the Cardinals without Kolb? How about St. Louis WR core without Amendola? I'd say Chris Gocong is one of the betters OLBs in the league. I'd also say Bunkley played some of his best ball once he got out of here. It looks like McGlynn/Justice have formed a solid right side of the line for Indy, and Brandon Gibson has played well.

They're all solid options, not all stars, but they're solid players that we just gave away[besides Kolb]. They're all better options then the garbage we're putting out there, hell add Joe Mays to the list as well.


Last edited by Remixxxxxxx on Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Remixxxxxxx


Joined: 06 Mar 2009
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Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
we have cole, mccoy, celek, and jackson all have become really good.


What a great percentage! First things first, DeSean Jackson is good at one thing, you don't need to develop speed, that's an athletic ability. Secondly, Brent Celek is no better then your average tight end, not sure I'd be using that for my arguement.
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remixxxxxxx wrote:
Quote:
we have cole, mccoy, celek, and jackson all have become really good.


What a great percentage! First things first, DeSean Jackson is good at one thing, you don't need to develop speed, that's an athletic ability. Secondly, Brent Celek is no better then your average tight end, not sure I'd be using that for my arguement.


your a negative nancy...you know that? i dont even know what to tell you. this isnt madden? does that help? i mean im not just trying to be an optimist and think we are great....but i mean come on. your looking at this past two or three years and trying to act like we are terrible at developing talent because people who were on our team went to another team. and that the team of late has had a large number of FA on it.

but i do like how you say celek is average and it doesnt help my argument that put brandon gibson to help yours.
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I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our prospect evaluation and roster management has been below average since our Super Bowl run.
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Remixxxxxxx


Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 12339
Location: E808 on the avi; P90 on the sig
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
your a negative nancy...you know that?


I'm sorry, just frustrated with the team right now.

Quote:
i dont even know what to tell you. this isnt madden? does that help? i mean im not just trying to be an optimist and think we are great....but i mean come on. your looking at this past two or three years and trying to act like we are terrible at developing talent because people who were on our team went to another team.


I don't even know why Madden was brought up? If we were any good at developing talent we wouldn't have bums like King Dunlap and Kurt Coleman starting for us, they've been in the league long enough, they should be better then this. We wouldn't have cut a second and third round pick after a year.

Any good player we have[besides Shady] is a non drafted talent.

Look at Green Bay[Rodgers, Jennings, Matthews, Raji, Sam Shields]
Look at Houston[Andre, Cushing, Watt, Duane Brown, Foster]
Look at San Fran [Willis, Goldson, Smith, Staley, Davis, Iupati]
Look at New York[Eli, Nicks, Cruz, JPP, Tuck, Osi, Webster]

The list goes on and on, but there's no need to continue. We're getting nowhere, there's a reason this team is where it's at right now. The lack to develop any sort of talent is a major factor.

Quote:
but i do like how you say celek is average and it doesnt help my argument that put brandon gibson to help yours.


You're talking about players we've "developed", I'm talking about players we've had who have played well for another team, two different arguements.
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 9101
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remixxxxxxx wrote:
Quote:
your a negative nancy...you know that?


I'm sorry, just frustrated with the team right now.

Quote:
i dont even know what to tell you. this isnt madden? does that help? i mean im not just trying to be an optimist and think we are great....but i mean come on. your looking at this past two or three years and trying to act like we are terrible at developing talent because people who were on our team went to another team.


I don't even know why Madden was brought up? If we were any good at developing talent we wouldn't have bums like King Dunlap and Kurt Coleman starting for us, they've been in the league long enough, they should be better then this. We wouldn't have cut a second and third round pick after a year.

Any good player we have[besides Shady] is a non drafted talent.

Look at Green Bay[Rodgers, Jennings, Matthews, Raji, Sam Shields]
Look at Houston[Andre, Cushing, Watt, Duane Brown, Foster]
Look at San Fran [Willis, Goldson, Smith, Staley, Davis, Iupati]
Look at New York[Eli, Nicks, Cruz, JPP, Tuck, Osi, Webster]

The list goes on and on, but there's no need to continue. We're getting nowhere, there's a reason this team is where it's at right now. The lack to develop any sort of talent is a major factor.

Quote:
but i do like how you say celek is average and it doesnt help my argument that put brandon gibson to help yours.


You're talking about players we've "developed", I'm talking about players we've had who have played well for another team, two different arguements.


i understand the frustration but still. what does developing talent have to do with having bad players on our team? we dont have a lot of players that have been devolved right now because we had so many before. you take a team that had few holes and then lose almost all those players.

we are not bad at developing talent. we have devolved talent, the problem is that we lost a large amount of players in a short period of time. the only way to do that is by free agents, which is also a bad way of doing it.

im not saying that we are the best at making a team but we are also in a bad spot that a lot of teams find themselves after they lose a group of players together like that. i just dont understand the not developing talent. we have had a problem with drafting players not developing it.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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marky_b27


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We didn't lose a lot of players - we got rid of them.

The Eagles went for a youth movement, then Vick dazzled us with some shiny plays, then all of a sudden we were in win now mode with most of the roster in their rookie year.
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky_b27 wrote:
We didn't lose a lot of players - we got rid of them.

The Eagles went for a youth movement, then Vick dazzled us with some shiny plays, then all of a sudden we were in win now mode with most of the roster in their rookie year.


thats what i meant by lose. i meant it loosely as we dont have them anymore.

we lost the majority of our team between 2006-2009 and we had no one to replace them. that lead to this scramble to find replacement for them. its not a devolping problem it was more of a poor planning problem.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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TheKingDP


Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 562
Location: illadelph
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exhibit A: 2011 Draft Class
1. Danny Watkins - Sucks
2. Jaiquan Jarrett - Released
3. Curtis Marsh - Sucks & Need to be Released
4a. Casey Matthews - "Starting MLB in 2011"? Lol. Right. Who bought that one?
4b. Alex Henery - Wow! Our best player in the draft is A) a Kicker & B) a 4th Rounder

Exhibit B: 2010 Draft Class
1. Brandon Graham - Non-contributor. UNDERSIZED <--I know that will tick you guys off
2. Nate Allen - Can't play for jack. Bottom 10 Safety in the league.
3. Daniel Teo-Nesheim - Sucks. Released.
4a. Trevard Lindley - Sucks. Released.
4b. Keenan Clayton - Sucks. Released.
4c. Kevin Kolb - Sucks. Thank god we got DRC out of that deal.
4d. Clay Harbor - Not impressive.

Exhibit C: 2009 Draft Class
1. Jeremy Yaclin - Nice pick even though we passed up Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, & Kenny Britt, but we're not counting that here.
2. LeSean McCoy - JACKPOT!!!! ABOUT DAMN TIME WE HIT ON A HIGH DRAFT PICK!!!
3. No one until Cornelius Ingram, Macho Harris, & Fenuki Tuopo. They all suck. They all have been released.


Why are we limiting this to the 2005-2008 drafts? We've blown the 2009, 2010, & 2011 drafts as well. Besides a friggin KICKER that we picked in the 4th round of the 2011 Draft, why do I have to go back to 2009 Draft to find a high-round draft pick that's even a remotely decent player? The front office outsmarts everyone. Even themselves.

Face it, Andy Reid would have been better trading his 1st through 4th round picks for a bunch of 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders. He can't pick in the first 4 rounds if his life depended on it. Bring in the bulldozers and turn this place into a parking lot.
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TheKingDP


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
marky_b27 wrote:
We didn't lose a lot of players - we got rid of them.

The Eagles went for a youth movement, then Vick dazzled us with some shiny plays, then all of a sudden we were in win now mode with most of the roster in their rookie year.


thats what i meant by lose. i meant it loosely as we dont have them anymore.

we lost the majority of our team between 2006-2009 and we had no one to replace them. that lead to this scramble to find replacement for them. its not a devolping problem it was more of a poor planning problem.


Oh, you mean like releasing players before they had any clue who the replacement would be is any better than drafting poorly? This FO does that ROUTINELY. One problem compounds the other. They think they're smarter than everyone. They're not.
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheKingDP wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
marky_b27 wrote:
We didn't lose a lot of players - we got rid of them.

The Eagles went for a youth movement, then Vick dazzled us with some shiny plays, then all of a sudden we were in win now mode with most of the roster in their rookie year.


thats what i meant by lose. i meant it loosely as we dont have them anymore.

we lost the majority of our team between 2006-2009 and we had no one to replace them. that lead to this scramble to find replacement for them. its not a devolping problem it was more of a poor planning problem.


Oh, you mean like releasing players before they had any clue who the replacement would be is any better than drafting poorly? This FO does that ROUTINELY. One problem compounds the other. They think they're smarter than everyone. They're not.


they let people go before they become dead wait....which is fine...if they had trained someone to take that spot they were confident in. thats where they lack. everything cant work out perfectly no matter how good the FO is. they were put in a really hard spot and things didnt pan out. very few aging players were released/not resigned that have proven to be a bad choice. only dawkins comes to mind.

the only real problem is not having backups to replace them. which is hard to do in itself. planning for the future is what this organization has done poorly, and that is what we see now.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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TheKingDP


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
the only real problem is not having backups to replace them. which is hard to do in itself. planning for the future is what this organization has done poorly, and that is what we see now.


Not properly planning for the future AND drafting horribly? Recipe for disaster. Bye bye Andy.
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheKingDP wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
the only real problem is not having backups to replace them. which is hard to do in itself. planning for the future is what this organization has done poorly, and that is what we see now.


Not properly planning for the future AND drafting horribly? Recipe for disaster. Bye bye Andy.


the drafting wasnt that horrible. you compared us to a lot of teams and we are probably about average. we have had some bad luck with injuries and forcing picks because of need.
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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marky_b27


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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Location: Nottingham, England
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 wrote:
TheKingDP wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
the only real problem is not having backups to replace them. which is hard to do in itself. planning for the future is what this organization has done poorly, and that is what we see now.


Not properly planning for the future AND drafting horribly? Recipe for disaster. Bye bye Andy.


the drafting wasnt that horrible. you compared us to a lot of teams and we are probably about average. we have had some bad luck with injuries and forcing picks because of need.


We're below average in recent years - the last 3 years drafts aren't what we expected them to be (mainly as we reached for need)
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Marky > Foles
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky_b27 wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
TheKingDP wrote:
eagles101 wrote:
the only real problem is not having backups to replace them. which is hard to do in itself. planning for the future is what this organization has done poorly, and that is what we see now.


Not properly planning for the future AND drafting horribly? Recipe for disaster. Bye bye Andy.


the drafting wasnt that horrible. you compared us to a lot of teams and we are probably about average. we have had some bad luck with injuries and forcing picks because of need.


We're below average in recent years - the last 3 years drafts aren't what we expected them to be (mainly as we reached for need)


2012 draft so far we are above average. after the draft we people came out saying we nailed it and cox, kendricks, and brown have done well for rookies.

2010 henery, kelce, havili all have made at least some what of an impact.

2009 graham, harbor have made some what of an impact. cooper and koleman as viable back ups.

not saying there great....but they are about average. they also might become better. the jury isnt all the way out on all these players
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vikingsvikings wrote:

I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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