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Forge


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Forge wrote:
I thought Kap played very well in the second half, after getting all the jitters out. That being said, I don't think he's ready to lead a playoff team just yet (although honesty, he may not experience any real growth as a quarterback until he gets consistent play in games as a QB and not as a gimmick and gadget guy).

There were definitely a few things that I noticed:

1. Accuracy issues. Like Alex sometimes does, he has a tendency to throw the ball up around the helmet. While these are almost always catchable balls, you can't fault the receiver if they don't pull each one of them in. And the scary thing with a high pass that hits a receiver is that it typically goes up into the air...and right to a waiting defender.

2. Indecisiveness (in throwing). Again, another Alex trait (he must really be learning from smith). I loved the aggression when he took off with the ball (and this can't be overstated...Kap was brilliant in taking off, then getting out of bounds. I don't remember him taking any big hits on scrambles). But when it came to throwing the football, I saw him holding on to the football way too long and not really being sure where to fire it at times.

3. Field vision. He missed a couple of wide open guys, the biggest of which was the seam/fly pattern that kyle williams ran where the rams forgot to cover him. He missed a couple of open check downs too, which is kind of a double edged sword (love the aggression in wanting to get it down field, but sometimes, it really pays to take the checkdown and the free 7 yards the defense is giving you).

4. Touch. He's got a cannon...doesn't always need to show it. sometimes you have to float one in there (ask jeff blake...he made a career out of throwing the longest and deepest touch passes i've ever seen).

with that being said, in the second half i really only saw a small drop off in offensive production from the offense (thanks in no small part to kap's running ability). right now, he's an athlete playing quarterback, whereas Alex is a quarterback. I think that'll change with time. I think with Kap, there's going to be a higher probability of a high wire act on the offense...bigger risks and rewards. If he starts against chicago against cutler, I don't like our chances (this changes of course, if it's campbell rather than cutler). I also want to see Jim take at least 5 chances down the field on bombs with Kap....the kid has an arm, we should take advantage of it. I think he can win games in the nfl right now, but i don't think he'll be as efficient or consistent at it as Alex.


Spot on, great post.

Off topic, isn't it funny that we drafted Smith, Kaepernick, and Culliver who were all "raw" prospects? All are looking good early on but Kaepernick probably fits that description the best. There are no guarantees, but I like his chances with Harbaugh.


Thanks.

In three years of watching baalke draft, I've come to two conclusions. One, he and I have vastly different draft philosophies (thankfully for us fans, his is the one that matters, because my picks may have us at Kansas city or Cleveland style ineptitude), and two, he likes his high ceiling, more raw prospects. Not only did he do it in that draft, but he did it the year before too. Davis, iupati, and mays were all very raw, unpolished prospects. Its amazing that he's hit on 4 of those 6 with one bust (mays) and one undecided (kap). Davis took a while, but he may be having the best year out of all right tackles and should definitely be getting some all-pro love this year. Iupati Is a total mauler. Aldon is already one of the best rush lbs in the NFL, and honestly, I'm no so sure culliver isnt already our best corner. Amazing job by baalke in the draft
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaep did a great job helping us get into overtime. To be honest, I thought after the Rams scored with a minute left that we would lose. Pretty good job for the guy against a strong defense. The Rams are going to be good in the next 2-3 years thanks to the Redskins.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steadypimpin wrote:
Kaep did a great job helping us get into overtime. To be honest, I thought after the Rams scored with a minute left that we would lose. Pretty good job for the guy against a strong defense. The Rams are going to be good in the next 2-3 years thanks to the Redskins.


The problem wasn't Kaep or Alex, it was the D...failed us when it mattered most. Sure, they kept the overall score to 24, but they did not get the stop when needed. They were off their game nearly the entire game.
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CaptainKaep7


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrissooner49er wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
Kaep did a great job helping us get into overtime. To be honest, I thought after the Rams scored with a minute left that we would lose. Pretty good job for the guy against a strong defense. The Rams are going to be good in the next 2-3 years thanks to the Redskins.


The problem wasn't Kaep or Alex, it was the D...failed us when it mattered most. Sure, they kept the overall score to 24, but they did not get the stop when needed. They were off their game nearly the entire game.


I think the line on both sides of the ball were off all. Offensive line did alright keeping pressure off kaep except for some times. But defensive line allowed Jackson to run well when he has been off all year (I know because I got him on my fantasy team Crying or Very sad)

But yeah, defense was off all game as a whole.
I think Crabtree and Moss coaching and keep Kaep confidence up was a good sign. Especially from Crabtree, never saw it coming. I can't remember what drive it was but when Kaep didn't convert on 3rd, Crabtree walked back with Kaep, giving what seemed like nice words.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaptainKaep7 wrote:
Chrissooner49er wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
Kaep did a great job helping us get into overtime. To be honest, I thought after the Rams scored with a minute left that we would lose. Pretty good job for the guy against a strong defense. The Rams are going to be good in the next 2-3 years thanks to the Redskins.


The problem wasn't Kaep or Alex, it was the D...failed us when it mattered most. Sure, they kept the overall score to 24, but they did not get the stop when needed. They were off their game nearly the entire game.


I think the line on both sides of the ball were off all. Offensive line did alright keeping pressure off kaep except for some times. But defensive line allowed Jackson to run well when he has been off all year (I know because I got him on my fantasy team Crying or Very sad)

But yeah, defense was off all game as a whole.
I think Crabtree and Moss coaching and keep Kaep confidence up was a good sign. Especially from Crabtree, never saw it coming. I can't remember what drive it was but when Kaep didn't convert on 3rd, Crabtree walked back with Kaep, giving what seemed like nice words.
They probably want him to do good because they like him better as a QB.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrissooner49er wrote:
steadypimpin wrote:
Kaep did a great job helping us get into overtime. To be honest, I thought after the Rams scored with a minute left that we would lose. Pretty good job for the guy against a strong defense. The Rams are going to be good in the next 2-3 years thanks to the Redskins.


The problem wasn't Kaep or Alex, it was the D...failed us when it mattered most. Sure, they kept the overall score to 24, but they did not get the stop when needed. They were off their game nearly the entire game.


It looks like the extra rest was too much for out defense. We were missing tackles left and right. This offense is not made to score over 24 points.
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SFaithful97


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinerNation21 wrote:
I think given the situation he was in yesterday, he played great. I highly doubt he was given many reps in practice and I know he wasn't expecting to play at the length that he did. So for a second year QB that was primarily used for his legs to get thrown into a pressure game against a great defensive line, he played great.

If he was given first team reps and prepared like he was going to start I'd be willing to bet he would've played alot better.

The one thing i really really like about Kaep is his exuberance and his fiery competitive nature. The one thing I've been noticing about the offense is that sometimes you see them standing on the sidelines with a blank stare or no excitement. Alex is very even keeled which is a good thing for his position but I'd like to see Alex get fired up sometimes. With Kaep, I see him doing that. I can see him going to everyone on the sidelines and getting them fired up before they take the field. I loved his excitement after he scored that TD. When i saw that i thought to myself that he just got confidence for the rest of the game and hes going to beast now.
Two thing about that... First, you always prepare like you are going to start (even if you know you aren't) unless you want to be out of work very quickly in this league.

Second. I disagree with your premise. I believe it is a lot easier to come into a game as the back-up, with no time to over think anything. He just had to run out there and try to get things done. Not to mention the defense was not prepared to defend him on an every down basis. No doubt they prepared to see him on a read option or some trick plays, but the defense expected to be playing Alex. I can't think of a worse situation than Kaep getting his first start against a great Bears defense. If he starts this week, we lose. No doubt in my mind about that last part.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFaithful97 wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
I think given the situation he was in yesterday, he played great. I highly doubt he was given many reps in practice and I know he wasn't expecting to play at the length that he did. So for a second year QB that was primarily used for his legs to get thrown into a pressure game against a great defensive line, he played great.

If he was given first team reps and prepared like he was going to start I'd be willing to bet he would've played alot better.

The one thing i really really like about Kaep is his exuberance and his fiery competitive nature. The one thing I've been noticing about the offense is that sometimes you see them standing on the sidelines with a blank stare or no excitement. Alex is very even keeled which is a good thing for his position but I'd like to see Alex get fired up sometimes. With Kaep, I see him doing that. I can see him going to everyone on the sidelines and getting them fired up before they take the field. I loved his excitement after he scored that TD. When i saw that i thought to myself that he just got confidence for the rest of the game and hes going to beast now.
Two thing about that... First, you always prepare like you are going to start (even if you know you aren't) unless you want to be out of work very quickly in this league.

Second. I disagree with your premise. I believe it is a lot easier to come into a game as the back-up, with no time to over think anything. He just had to run out there and try to get things done. Not to mention the defense was not prepared to defend him on an every down basis. No doubt they prepared to see him on a read option or some trick plays, but the defense expected to be playing Alex. I can't think of a worse situation than Kaep getting his first start against a great Bears defense. If he starts this week, we lose. No doubt in my mind about that last part.


Clearly it wasn't easier for Kaepernick, as he looked flustered early. It wasn't hard to see he was pretty nervous during his first drive. Mentally, it's something you always want to be prepared for, but when the time comes anything can happen. He came in down by a TD, with 6 minutes left in the half, playing an important division game. He was also playing in front of the home crowd. I highly doubt any of that is as easy as you make it sound.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFaithful97 wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
I think given the situation he was in yesterday, he played great. I highly doubt he was given many reps in practice and I know he wasn't expecting to play at the length that he did. So for a second year QB that was primarily used for his legs to get thrown into a pressure game against a great defensive line, he played great.

If he was given first team reps and prepared like he was going to start I'd be willing to bet he would've played alot better.

The one thing i really really like about Kaep is his exuberance and his fiery competitive nature. The one thing I've been noticing about the offense is that sometimes you see them standing on the sidelines with a blank stare or no excitement. Alex is very even keeled which is a good thing for his position but I'd like to see Alex get fired up sometimes. With Kaep, I see him doing that. I can see him going to everyone on the sidelines and getting them fired up before they take the field. I loved his excitement after he scored that TD. When i saw that i thought to myself that he just got confidence for the rest of the game and hes going to beast now.
Two thing about that... First, you always prepare like you are going to start (even if you know you aren't) unless you want to be out of work very quickly in this league.

Second. I disagree with your premise. I believe it is a lot easier to come into a game as the back-up, with no time to over think anything. He just had to run out there and try to get things done. Not to mention the defense was not prepared to defend him on an every down basis. No doubt they prepared to see him on a read option or some trick plays, but the defense expected to be playing Alex. I can't think of a worse situation than Kaep getting his first start against a great Bears defense. If he starts this week, we lose. No doubt in my mind about that last part.


What I meant by preparing like he was going to start was him getting first team reps. Obviously every player in any sport mentally prepares for playing in the game. But not every player, especially a backup QB gets a ton of first team reps and gets to physically prepare like a starter.
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NINERFAN_4_LIFE


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been as big of an alex supporter as anyone else around here but CK is just too good to be riding the bench. He just flat out makes things happen. He showed better pocket awareness last game than alex normally does and is a threat to score on every play. I agree with rudy that we should run some no RB sets with him where everyone goes deep to leave him space to run and go for the big play. I also agree with the people who said that he had some room and didnt take it but I dont fault him for keeping his eyes downfield and trying to give our guys a chance to make a play. There is no fear in his game and its exciting to watch. I think its time to let the kid do his thing. At this point the only way he is going to get better is with real game experience. If he is the future then why wait

At some point Harbaugh and co need to stop playing not to lose and start playing to win. I feel like we are holding back with our playcalls to not show anyone exactly who we are until we absolutely have to. Guys like Vernon, Moss, Crabs and manningham should never go a game without a catch. We have too much talent at every position on this offense to not score at least 3-4 Tds a game. Ive seen us get 5 yards nearly every play when we play up tempo. I know we like to control the clock but I want us to play with a sense of urgency and actually try and score quick points. We dont need to change personnel every freaking play. If we went no huddle on someone at a crucial time in the game they wouldnt know what to do. We need to score touchdowns, and not kick fieldgoals. If we can consistently put together some big plays we could jump up on people and take the pressure off of our defense. it would allow fangio to open up the playbook a little bit more. Its almost like we havent taken any games seriously since we beat the lions. We have kinda been coasting since then and I think its time to put the pedal to the medal and start reaching our potential. At some point harbaugh needs to trust his guys. He needs to ask them to make a play instead of to not make a mistake. Lets make the game fun again for the players. I believe it will give us new life.

I like what alex brings and Im happy with either guy but CK has shown me he can play at a high level. Im all for giving him a shot.

With that being said i wonder who gives us the advantage this week against the bears. Logically alex makes sense because if we can protect the football we will win but CK is a dangerous weapon. I still like the idea of the two of them on the field at the same time but its starting to get to the point where ck has shown too much to not be included. He has earned his stripes in my eyes. he has IT

EDIT: the second paragraph is for either QB. I would like to see alex take more shots to moss and vernon and a pump fake or two this week could be the difference between a TD and an INT
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wilmtalk


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
..----------------------------------------------------------
All in all, for a first game, i think he settled down well after an awful 1st half. Here's a comparison between him and Alex's first extensive game action under Harbaugh.

Alex: 15/20, 124 yards, 75% completion, 6.2 YPA, 7 carries for 22 yards, 1 rushing TD.
QBR- 90.4

Kaep: 11/17, 117 yards, 64.7% completion, 6.9 YPA, 8 carries for 66 yards, 1 rushing TD.
QBR- 84.7

Not that far off....and Alex improved immensely with time.

This isn't to say Kaep is better than Alex (Alex should still start), just saying it wasn't bad for a first game under Harbaugh. And if he had to start, then i feel confident in Harbaugh's coaching abilities to make Kaep a better QB. Just like he made Alex a better QB.

Overall though, when Alex is cleared to play, he's the starter, no question. And i think Alex's style of play gives us a higher chance to beat the Bears tbh. If he's cleared, there's no question who starts.


I realize this might not have been your intent but I will never the less use your quotes to make a point to some of the other posters on this site.
I think your comparison of Alex's first game under Harbaugh to Kaps first game isn't comparable. First the stats are not comparable because the game conditions were different. Against the Seahawks the score was not even close but 33-17. SF kicked 4 field goals and Gin had two returns for touch downs. There was no pressure on Alex to score as on Kamp against the rams because the niners were up multiple scores the entire game in the Seahawk game.

Second although it was Alex's first game under Harbaugh it was his 7th season in the NFL. You didn't seem to be implying this in your post but many other posters seem to forget that Alex isn't really a rookie. So even though he was operating under less than desirable conditions he still played in the NFL for six seasons ( one he sat because he was injured). before Harbaugh. I think some of them believe that he has a bigger learning curve left than is actually there. He isn't going to get that much better. Harbaugh just provided him with a better opportunity to succeed. the only thing he can really improve on is the ability to play more aggressively and take risks when the situation calls for it.

I missed Kamps first series but on his last in the half I felt that the receivers could have caught the balls he threw. They bounced off their hands. I think the problem is less the velocity that he throws but the contrast between his passes and Alex's. Recievers on other teams have remarked that they have no problem with QB's that throw rockets. It's just getting adjusted to them. That is not to say that there are not times and situations when a touch pass is better. Rockets can be thrown into a tighter window.

I also felt that Alex at this time might be the best option but I am beginning to change my perspective. Alex is a better game manager but that requires the defense to play at a high level and the niners defense has not been that reliable or consistant this year. I am fairly sure that Alex would not have been able to get the team in field goal position before the end of regulation with the little time that was left as Kamp did. What needs to be remembered is that the Rams controled the clock in tis game and the niners had very few possessions to score so every possession was important. When the defense is able to keep the opposing team off the field then every third down for it's own offense isn't as important making it possible to game manage. In the Ram game the niners needed to score each time they had the ball towards the end of the game in order to win. Under these conditions a game manager becomes a liability because the defense cant control the game. Add in Aikers inconsistance this season and the entire perspective changes. This team, due to the inconsistancy of the D and Aikers, is far different than last years team was. Add to that the seamingly weak special team play plus the lack of forced turnovers which deprives the niners of the advantage of the good field position they enjoyed last year This makes the offense have to work much harder for both yardage and scores. This is not last season and this team and it's needs on offense are far different than last.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilmtalk wrote:


I also felt that Alex at this time might be the best option but I am beginning to change my perspective.


wilmtalk wrote:
I am fairly sure that Alex would not have been able to get the team in field goal position before the end of regulation with the little time that was left


These are the kind of comments that frustrate people on this forum who are often referred to as "Alex supporters". He's the third highest rated QB in the league, he has the third highest average per attempt, and he leads the league in completion percentage at over 70%. And that includes one truly awful game the likes of which he has not had in the past few years. Take away the Giants game and he not only leads the league in all three of those categories, his QBR would be 15 points higher than the next closest guy - higher I think than any QB has ever finished a season with. And still, after only one decent game by another qb, there are people here suggesting maybe the other guy should start. This sort of thing never fails to amaze me.

As for Alex not being able to lead us back. He was either first or second in the league last year in 4th quarter game-winning drives, and what he did against the Eagles and again against the Saints should have put that sort of talk to bed. But again, when it comes to Alex, facts never seem to get in the way of people's negative feelings about him.

I truly believe that unless Alex is clearly the best QB in the league many here will not be satisfied - and some will probably still be "looking for ways he can improve". I'm not suggesting he is the best QB in the league, or ever will be, but f I knew nothing at all about Alex and came to this forum and read the stuff in this thread I'd think I was reading about some guy having a so-so year, not the third highest rated QB in the league.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
wilmtalk wrote:


I also felt that Alex at this time might be the best option but I am beginning to change my perspective.


wilmtalk wrote:
I am fairly sure that Alex would not have been able to get the team in field goal position before the end of regulation with the little time that was left


These are the kind of comments that frustrate people on this forum who are often referred to as "Alex supporters". He's the third highest rated QB in the league, he has the third highest average per attempt, and he leads the league in completion percentage at over 70%. And that includes one truly awful game the likes of which he has not had in the past few years. Take away the Giants game and he not only leads the league in all three of those categories, his QBR would be 15 points higher than the next closest guy - higher I think than any QB has ever finished a season with. And still, after only one decent game by another qb, there are people here suggesting maybe the other guy should start. This sort of thing never fails to amaze me.

As for Alex not being able to lead us back. He was either first or second in the league last year in 4th quarter game-winning drives, and what he did against the Eagles and again against the Saints should have put that sort of talk to bed. But again, when it comes to Alex, facts never seem to get in the way of people's negative feelings about him.

I truly believe that unless Alex is clearly the best QB in the league many here will not be satisfied - and some will probably still be "looking for ways he can improve". I'm not suggesting he is the best QB in the league, or ever will be, but f I knew nothing at all about Alex and came to this forum and read the stuff in this thread I'd think I was reading about some guy having a so-so year, not the third highest rated QB in the
league.


+1

Alex never gets respect around here. before he was pulled out he was clicking with the offense I hate to have scenarios like what ifs but what if he wasn't injured he was definetly in rythm with the offense what if b4 halftime we would given us another score going into hbalf time 14-14 we would of won the game with his so called dunk and dink ways.

I like kaepernick but I don't see him ready this year heck I don't think he beats out alex next year what I'm hoping for is a scenario like the chargers in that we get some sort of trade value for one or the other I just hope harbaugh and company make the right choice when that time comes
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LANiner wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
wilmtalk wrote:


I also felt that Alex at this time might be the best option but I am beginning to change my perspective.


wilmtalk wrote:
I am fairly sure that Alex would not have been able to get the team in field goal position before the end of regulation with the little time that was left


These are the kind of comments that frustrate people on this forum who are often referred to as "Alex supporters". He's the third highest rated QB in the league, he has the third highest average per attempt, and he leads the league in completion percentage at over 70%. And that includes one truly awful game the likes of which he has not had in the past few years. Take away the Giants game and he not only leads the league in all three of those categories, his QBR would be 15 points higher than the next closest guy - higher I think than any QB has ever finished a season with. And still, after only one decent game by another qb, there are people here suggesting maybe the other guy should start. This sort of thing never fails to amaze me.

As for Alex not being able to lead us back. He was either first or second in the league last year in 4th quarter game-winning drives, and what he did against the Eagles and again against the Saints should have put that sort of talk to bed. But again, when it comes to Alex, facts never seem to get in the way of people's negative feelings about him.

I truly believe that unless Alex is clearly the best QB in the league many here will not be satisfied - and some will probably still be "looking for ways he can improve". I'm not suggesting he is the best QB in the league, or ever will be, but f I knew nothing at all about Alex and came to this forum and read the stuff in this thread I'd think I was reading about some guy having a so-so year, not the third highest rated QB in the
league.


+1

Alex never gets respect around here. before he was pulled out he was clicking with the offense I hate to have scenarios like what ifs but what if he wasn't injured he was definetly in rythm with the offense what if b4 halftime we would given us another score going into hbalf time 14-14 we would of won the game with his so called dunk and dink ways.

I like kaepernick but I don't see him ready this year heck I don't think he beats out alex next year what I'm hoping for is a scenario like the chargers in that we get some sort of trade value for one or the other I just hope harbaugh and company make the right choice when that time comes
He will. Kaep will be the starter. Maybe we'll get a 4th for Alex. That would be great.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steadypimpin wrote:
LANiner wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
wilmtalk wrote:


I also felt that Alex at this time might be the best option but I am beginning to change my perspective.


wilmtalk wrote:
I am fairly sure that Alex would not have been able to get the team in field goal position before the end of regulation with the little time that was left


These are the kind of comments that frustrate people on this forum who are often referred to as "Alex supporters". He's the third highest rated QB in the league, he has the third highest average per attempt, and he leads the league in completion percentage at over 70%. And that includes one truly awful game the likes of which he has not had in the past few years. Take away the Giants game and he not only leads the league in all three of those categories, his QBR would be 15 points higher than the next closest guy - higher I think than any QB has ever finished a season with. And still, after only one decent game by another qb, there are people here suggesting maybe the other guy should start. This sort of thing never fails to amaze me.

As for Alex not being able to lead us back. He was either first or second in the league last year in 4th quarter game-winning drives, and what he did against the Eagles and again against the Saints should have put that sort of talk to bed. But again, when it comes to Alex, facts never seem to get in the way of people's negative feelings about him.

I truly believe that unless Alex is clearly the best QB in the league many here will not be satisfied - and some will probably still be "looking for ways he can improve". I'm not suggesting he is the best QB in the league, or ever will be, but f I knew nothing at all about Alex and came to this forum and read the stuff in this thread I'd think I was reading about some guy having a so-so year, not the third highest rated QB in the
league.


+1

Alex never gets respect around here. before he was pulled out he was clicking with the offense I hate to have scenarios like what ifs but what if he wasn't injured he was definetly in rythm with the offense what if b4 halftime we would given us another score going into hbalf time 14-14 we would of won the game with his so called dunk and dink ways.

I like kaepernick but I don't see him ready this year heck I don't think he beats out alex next year what I'm hoping for is a scenario like the chargers in that we get some sort of trade value for one or the other I just hope harbaugh and company make the right choice when that time comes
He will. Kaep will be the starter. Maybe we'll get a 4th for Alex. That would be great.


How long do we have alex under contract for?
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