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Ataal


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Colin Kaepernick Reply with quote

I know there has been some discussion about him in the GDT, but I think he deserves his own thread, especially if he ends up starting some games due to Alex's concussion.

So, please feel free to post your thoughts on his arm, mechanics, decision making, pocket awareness, ball protection, etc...

I'll add my thoughts in a little bit. I have a couple computers on my bench right now that I need to troubleshoot.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted my thought on the GDT, but here they are again.

SoCalNiner wrote:

I honestly think Kap did very well, given the circumstances. Clearly he was a bit shaken and really jittery at first, but he's young and it was his turn to prove himself. He definitely missed some guys, KW running the post and I think the announcers said he could have had Moss. This is stuff that he should get, but I can't blame him because he doesn't get any reps during practice.

Once he settled down, his accuracy got better and was able to fit the ball into some windows. The receivers had problems adjusting to the kind of velocity to his throw at first, especially Crabs. Mario and Moss both have experience with QB's who can throw the ball on a rope, so they adjusted quickly enough.

Is he the future? Yes I think so, but he's not the guy who will get us there this year. Alex is that guy, and this offense is catered to his skill set.


The game hasn't slowed down for him yet, but I think it's due to him being thrown into the fire.

I'm glad that guys like Crabs and Moss have his back. They were with im every play and teaching him along the way. My respect for Crabs has grown tremendously.
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NinerNation21


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think given the situation he was in yesterday, he played great. I highly doubt he was given many reps in practice and I know he wasn't expecting to play at the length that he did. So for a second year QB that was primarily used for his legs to get thrown into a pressure game against a great defensive line, he played great.

If he was given first team reps and prepared like he was going to start I'd be willing to bet he would've played alot better.

The one thing i really really like about Kaep is his exuberance and his fiery competitive nature. The one thing I've been noticing about the offense is that sometimes you see them standing on the sidelines with a blank stare or no excitement. Alex is very even keeled which is a good thing for his position but I'd like to see Alex get fired up sometimes. With Kaep, I see him doing that. I can see him going to everyone on the sidelines and getting them fired up before they take the field. I loved his excitement after he scored that TD. When i saw that i thought to myself that he just got confidence for the rest of the game and hes going to beast now.
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Chrissooner49er


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He did quite well, but there are two things he needs to clean up:

HOLD ONTO THE BALL!

and

Touch on that ball--your receivers don't need to try to catch a bullet.
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NinerNation21


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrissooner49er wrote:
He did quite well, but there are two things he needs to clean up:

HOLD ONTO THE BALL!

and

Touch on that ball--your receivers don't need to try to catch a bullet.


Good thing those two things are easy to fix. I think both of those areas were due to nerves. I have a feeling that Kaep wanted to show off his arm to the world yesterday. The holding on to the ball thing is something he does need to clean up and i would bet that he will get an earful from the coaches about that and drill it into his head.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrissooner49er wrote:
He did quite well, but there are two things he needs to clean up:

HOLD ONTO THE BALL!

and

Touch on that ball--your receivers don't need to try to catch a bullet.



That has always been the biggest knock on him. He did it in college, I noticed it at the combine, and now still. He can throw with touch, I've seen it, and he's as accurate as anyone. But he often waits too long and then has to laser it before the window closes.

If we have to go forward with Kaep, I think we should focus on sideline throws more than the middle of the field. He's very good going to the sidelines, putting it where only his receiver can catch it. Over the middle, I'm afraid of all the balls going off finger tips and landing in defenders hands. Also (and this is counter-intuitive, for me), I'd run a few no back sets, bring in WRs (and TEs), stretch the field vertically, just to open up running lanes for him. Get the DBs tired vertically, the LBs horizontally (from running after Kap), then come back to the power running and playaction (which is not something we'd come back to, but rather finally go to) on a consistent basis. Oh, and to make him more comfortable, let him run some of the pistol, no matter how much I hate the pistol. He's familiar with it, it will trigger instincts in him. That's what I'd do with him. And run a lot.

Did anyone start laughing hard when Kap fumbled and Gore picked it up and ran for the first down? I just love when something bad turns great. Just imagining rams' fans reactions... "YAY FUMBLE! Are you freakin' kidding me?!"

By the way, Gore was again amazing yesterday. I think we've overlooked it because of the QB situation and the weird game and tie, but Gore played great. Got stuffed a couple of times, but also gained yards when he shouldn't have, at times. Classic Gore vs Rams playing level.
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49ersfan


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not comparing Kaepernick directly to him, but his playing style kind of reminded me of a Roethlisberger. That is, he held on to the ball forever and took sacks/fumbles, but also made a few big plays downfield.

1 example- On our TD drive, down 17-7. 2nd and 10 on our 30, he takes a sack and fumbles the ball (Bruce Miller recovers). Now its 3rd and 20. Result of the play, 19 yard bullet to Vernon Davis. That sets up a manageable 4th and 1, which we did convert.

All in all, for a first game, i think he settled down well after an awful 1st half. Here's a comparison between him and Alex's first extensive game action under Harbaugh.

Alex: 15/20, 124 yards, 75% completion, 6.2 YPA, 7 carries for 22 yards, 1 rushing TD.
QBR- 90.4

Kaep: 11/17, 117 yards, 64.7% completion, 6.9 YPA, 8 carries for 66 yards, 1 rushing TD.
QBR- 84.7

Not that far off....and Alex improved immensely with time.

This isn't to say Kaep is better than Alex (Alex should still start), just saying it wasn't bad for a first game under Harbaugh. And if he had to start, then i feel confident in Harbaugh's coaching abilities to make Kaep a better QB. Just like he made Alex a better QB.

Overall though, when Alex is cleared to play, he's the starter, no question. And i think Alex's style of play gives us a higher chance to beat the Bears tbh. If he's cleared, there's no question who starts.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ersfan wrote:
I'm not comparing Kaepernick directly to him, but his playing style kind of reminded me of a Roethlisberger. That is, he held on to the ball forever and took sacks/fumbles, but also made a few big plays downfield.

1 example- On our TD drive, down 17-7. 2nd and 10 on our 30, he takes a sack and fumbles the ball (Bruce Miller recovers). Now its 3rd and 20. Result of the play, 19 yard bullet to Vernon Davis. That sets up a manageable 4th and 1, which we did convert.

All in all, for a first game, i think he settled down well after an awful 1st half. Here's a comparison between him and Alex's first extensive game action under Harbaugh.

Alex: 15/20, 124 yards, 75% completion, 6.2 YPA, 7 carries for 22 yards, 1 rushing TD.
QBR- 90.4

Kaep: 11/17, 117 yards, 64.7% completion, 6.9 YPA, 8 carries for 66 yards, 1 rushing TD.
QBR- 84.7

Not that far off....and Alex improved immensely with time.

This isn't to say Kaep is better than Alex (Alex should still start), just saying it wasn't bad for a first game under Harbaugh. And if he had to start, then i feel confident in Harbaugh's coaching abilities to make Kaep a better QB. Just like he made Alex a better QB.

Overall though, when Alex is cleared to play, he's the starter, no question. And i think Alex's style of play gives us a higher chance to beat the Bears tbh. If he's cleared, there's no question who starts.


I think this post is dead on. On top of those stats, once he got the initial nerves out of his system, he finished 9 of 10 for 99 yards. However, he needs to sense pressure better, can't fumble (which is one of Alex's biggest strengths), and definitely needs to learn some touch.

Next year might be his year, but at least I feel comfortable enough with him as a backup this year.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, I'd like for him to use his legs even more. When teams blitz him, he needs to do what he did in his Nevada days. I felt there were at least two or three opportunities for him to tuck the ball and take off but he didn't. Still, for his first game he passed the test. He overcame a 10 point deficit and than drove us down the field to send the game to OT. Not only that, he gave us a chance to win the game in OT but Akers could not come through. Alex Smith still gives us the best chance to win now and we need him this week. He responded well after a shaky start and I was looking forward to see how many yards Crabtree was going to pile up.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, more and more work piling up, but I didn't want this thread to go several pages before I chimed in.

I wish I could rewatch the game now that I know the ending. My hands were sweating so bad and I probably smoked a full pack of cigarettes after halftime. I probably missed a few things.

From what I did see, I noticed something eerily familiar with Colin. Overall, his play style was almost identical to Alex, outside of running, cannon arm, and fumbling. Short, check downs, without much reading the field first. Phantom pressure in the pocket. etc...

It makes me think that it's the coaching that has more to do with it than anything. I can almost hear the coaches saying:"If you get the feeling you're about to get sacked from behind, just get out of there and scramble." "If you see the check down and you think you can get it to them and hope for some YAC, do it."

Now, for the differences:

1. Arm - Holy shnikes. My hands stung after some of those passes. A little more finesse on the shorter throws and good God, he's going to be a beast of a QB for us someday.

2. Ball protection - Maybe we're just...I hate to use the word spoiled....but Alex's biggest plus is his ball protection. He rarely fumbles a ball. This is a concern, because turnovers are absolute game changers.

3. The run - Colin's got wheels for days. He scans the field well and can run fast enough to evade defenders in the backfield. If he can learn some Romo-like moves on top of it, he'll be the least sacked QB in the league. Regardless of how the O-line is doing.

4. Accuracy - This one was harder to get a feel. He missed some longer ones, was dead on in mid-range, and threw bullets on the short game. I think this will get better as he gets more play time, though. You just can't laser beam it into a receiver like that when they're at a stand still. Your drop percentage is going to go way up and the ball is going so fast, it could easily bounce into the hands of a defender. Safeties over the top love to see passes like this. All they gotta do is get behind the receiver and wait for that bounce.

5. Someone else mentioned this, but Colin seems a little more passionate than Alex. Alex rarely shows any emotion, which can be a good thing. Passion can get the team as a whole all riled up, though, too. One of the few things I will ever give Tebow credit for. He did know how to rally the troops. On the other hand, passionate players tend to also get a little too riled up when things aren't going their way. Not all of them, but it's something to watch out for. Hopefully, Colin isn't one of those guys.

All in all, it was really exciting to watch him play for more than a couple snaps. He did a lot better than I thought he would. Mucho respect for the guy.

Let's take a look at the backup quarterbacks that came into the game after their starting quarterback was concussed:

Nick Foles - 22 of 32. 68.8% completion. 219 yards. 6.8 average. 1 touchdown. 1 interception. 2 sacks for 11 yards. 1 fumble and lost. 85.3 QBR.

Jason Campbell - 11 of 19. 57.9% completion. 94 yards. 4.9 average. No touchdowns, interceptions or fumbles. 1 rush for 5 yards. 70.9 QBR.

Colin Kaepernick - 11 of 17. 64.7% completion. 117 yards. 6.9 average. 3 sacks for 22 yards. 8 rush attempts for 66 yards. 8.3 average(better average than his throwing :O ) with a rushing touchdown. 2 fumbles, none lost. 84.7 QBR.

Compared to his peers, not bad. Not bad at all.
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neezy007


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been mentioned but I think Kaep could have ran for some huge gains on a few plays.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Kap played very well in the second half, after getting all the jitters out. That being said, I don't think he's ready to lead a playoff team just yet (although honesty, he may not experience any real growth as a quarterback until he gets consistent play in games as a QB and not as a gimmick and gadget guy).

There were definitely a few things that I noticed:

1. Accuracy issues. Like Alex sometimes does, he has a tendency to throw the ball up around the helmet. While these are almost always catchable balls, you can't fault the receiver if they don't pull each one of them in. And the scary thing with a high pass that hits a receiver is that it typically goes up into the air...and right to a waiting defender.

2. Indecisiveness (in throwing). Again, another Alex trait (he must really be learning from smith). I loved the aggression when he took off with the ball (and this can't be overstated...Kap was brilliant in taking off, then getting out of bounds. I don't remember him taking any big hits on scrambles). But when it came to throwing the football, I saw him holding on to the football way too long and not really being sure where to fire it at times.

3. Field vision. He missed a couple of wide open guys, the biggest of which was the seam/fly pattern that kyle williams ran where the rams forgot to cover him. He missed a couple of open check downs too, which is kind of a double edged sword (love the aggression in wanting to get it down field, but sometimes, it really pays to take the checkdown and the free 7 yards the defense is giving you).

4. Touch. He's got a cannon...doesn't always need to show it. sometimes you have to float one in there (ask jeff blake...he made a career out of throwing the longest and deepest touch passes i've ever seen).

with that being said, in the second half i really only saw a small drop off in offensive production from the offense (thanks in no small part to kap's running ability). right now, he's an athlete playing quarterback, whereas Alex is a quarterback. I think that'll change with time. I think with Kap, there's going to be a higher probability of a high wire act on the offense...bigger risks and rewards. If he starts against chicago against cutler, I don't like our chances (this changes of course, if it's campbell rather than cutler). I also want to see Jim take at least 5 chances down the field on bombs with Kap....the kid has an arm, we should take advantage of it. I think he can win games in the nfl right now, but i don't think he'll be as efficient or consistent at it as Alex.
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LANiner


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i might be a little down on kaep i know he is the future i see it that arm of his is no joke and i see progress from last year but i think he doesnt take the job next year either i think hes our starter in 2 years unless Alex keeps progressing and maybe wins us a superbowl and in that time i hope we get some draft picks for either of them a la Phillip Rivers and Drew brees scenario
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
I thought Kap played very well in the second half, after getting all the jitters out. That being said, I don't think he's ready to lead a playoff team just yet (although honesty, he may not experience any real growth as a quarterback until he gets consistent play in games as a QB and not as a gimmick and gadget guy).

There were definitely a few things that I noticed:

1. Accuracy issues. Like Alex sometimes does, he has a tendency to throw the ball up around the helmet. While these are almost always catchable balls, you can't fault the receiver if they don't pull each one of them in. And the scary thing with a high pass that hits a receiver is that it typically goes up into the air...and right to a waiting defender.

2. Indecisiveness (in throwing). Again, another Alex trait (he must really be learning from smith). I loved the aggression when he took off with the ball (and this can't be overstated...Kap was brilliant in taking off, then getting out of bounds. I don't remember him taking any big hits on scrambles). But when it came to throwing the football, I saw him holding on to the football way too long and not really being sure where to fire it at times.

3. Field vision. He missed a couple of wide open guys, the biggest of which was the seam/fly pattern that kyle williams ran where the rams forgot to cover him. He missed a couple of open check downs too, which is kind of a double edged sword (love the aggression in wanting to get it down field, but sometimes, it really pays to take the checkdown and the free 7 yards the defense is giving you).

4. Touch. He's got a cannon...doesn't always need to show it. sometimes you have to float one in there (ask jeff blake...he made a career out of throwing the longest and deepest touch passes i've ever seen).

with that being said, in the second half i really only saw a small drop off in offensive production from the offense (thanks in no small part to kap's running ability). right now, he's an athlete playing quarterback, whereas Alex is a quarterback. I think that'll change with time. I think with Kap, there's going to be a higher probability of a high wire act on the offense...bigger risks and rewards. If he starts against chicago against cutler, I don't like our chances (this changes of course, if it's campbell rather than cutler). I also want to see Jim take at least 5 chances down the field on bombs with Kap....the kid has an arm, we should take advantage of it. I think he can win games in the nfl right now, but i don't think he'll be as efficient or consistent at it as Alex.


Spot on, great post.

Off topic, isn't it funny that we drafted Smith, Kaepernick, and Culliver who were all "raw" prospects? All are looking good early on but Kaepernick probably fits that description the best. There are no guarantees, but I like his chances with Harbaugh.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Forge wrote:
I thought Kap played very well in the second half, after getting all the jitters out. That being said, I don't think he's ready to lead a playoff team just yet (although honesty, he may not experience any real growth as a quarterback until he gets consistent play in games as a QB and not as a gimmick and gadget guy).

There were definitely a few things that I noticed:

1. Accuracy issues. Like Alex sometimes does, he has a tendency to throw the ball up around the helmet. While these are almost always catchable balls, you can't fault the receiver if they don't pull each one of them in. And the scary thing with a high pass that hits a receiver is that it typically goes up into the air...and right to a waiting defender.

2. Indecisiveness (in throwing). Again, another Alex trait (he must really be learning from smith). I loved the aggression when he took off with the ball (and this can't be overstated...Kap was brilliant in taking off, then getting out of bounds. I don't remember him taking any big hits on scrambles). But when it came to throwing the football, I saw him holding on to the football way too long and not really being sure where to fire it at times.

3. Field vision. He missed a couple of wide open guys, the biggest of which was the seam/fly pattern that kyle williams ran where the rams forgot to cover him. He missed a couple of open check downs too, which is kind of a double edged sword (love the aggression in wanting to get it down field, but sometimes, it really pays to take the checkdown and the free 7 yards the defense is giving you).

4. Touch. He's got a cannon...doesn't always need to show it. sometimes you have to float one in there (ask jeff blake...he made a career out of throwing the longest and deepest touch passes i've ever seen).

with that being said, in the second half i really only saw a small drop off in offensive production from the offense (thanks in no small part to kap's running ability). right now, he's an athlete playing quarterback, whereas Alex is a quarterback. I think that'll change with time. I think with Kap, there's going to be a higher probability of a high wire act on the offense...bigger risks and rewards. If he starts against chicago against cutler, I don't like our chances (this changes of course, if it's campbell rather than cutler). I also want to see Jim take at least 5 chances down the field on bombs with Kap....the kid has an arm, we should take advantage of it. I think he can win games in the nfl right now, but i don't think he'll be as efficient or consistent at it as Alex.


Spot on, great post.

Off topic, isn't it funny that we drafted Smith, Kaepernick, and Culliver who were all "raw" prospects? All are looking good early on but Kaepernick probably fits that description the best. There are no guarantees, but I like his chances with Harbaugh.


Let's hope the trend continues with Jenkins and James.
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