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BBIB
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 7414
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 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Eagles_808 wrote: | | RBrown86 wrote: | | We should just go back to Vick. The coaches should tell him to do what he did as a Falcon. I guarantee he trolls the league and ends up rushing for 2,000 yards. |
What we should have done was Suck for Luck or Go Pissin for Griffin last season.  |
Well if you finish with 4 wins you will miss out on Geno Smith and Matt Barkley
It's a good thing you miss out on Barkley because he's a bust.
Foles will more than likely look like a bust as he finishes the season but with a better Oline next year you may give him a trial run under a new coach if they don't retain Vick
But hardly any chance Foles has many bright spots down the stretch behind that Oline |
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marky_b27
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 17010
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Bednarik60 wrote: | Is Vick much better in this offense then Foles at this point? Not really.
Foles seems way more poised and calmer back there tho not delivering points or anything its less as crazy as it was with Vick who i dont think any one knew what he was going to do any given play. |
No, there isn't much difference.
Foles is making some rookie mistakes, but then Vick is making the same mistakes, and he's been in the league for 10 years.
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| oland11 on America's use of Fahrenheit wrote: | | I know. We're stupid. |
| RainbowCarebear wrote: | | Again bloody fool him Howie. |
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BLick12
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 23293
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| marky_b27 wrote: | | Bednarik60 wrote: | Is Vick much better in this offense then Foles at this point? Not really.
Foles seems way more poised and calmer back there tho not delivering points or anything its less as crazy as it was with Vick who i dont think any one knew what he was going to do any given play. |
No, there isn't much difference.
Foles is making some rookie mistakes, but then Vick is making the same mistakes, and he's been in the league for 10 years. |
Every QB is going to make mistakes when they have pressure directly in the their face. On the first play of the game last night in the NE/Jets game Brady got sacked because his OG got beat cleanly by a DT. Well, this happens with regularity against the Eagles. Each play is just a jailbreak, it is truly pathetic. Vick exacerbates the problem by trying to do too much, but you can't really blame him when he is about to get crushed each time he goes back to pass. Foles is a surprisingly decent athlete but all these teams with real DEs are gonna eat him for lunch.
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| johndeere1707 wrote: |
Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.
Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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BBIB
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| marky_b27 wrote: |
No, there isn't much difference.
Foles is making some rookie mistakes, but then Vick is making the same mistakes, and he's been in the league for 10 years. |
But again how can you evaluate rookie mistake vs mistake because you are under durress because your offensive line is garbage?
Matt Ryan, Joe Flaco, RGIII, all these QBs who have had success in recent memory as rookies or any QB in any year for that matter, had that success because they had protection[
People say Big Ben had garbage Oline a few years, but guess what Big Ben also had more turnovers than TDs a couple of years as well including one of the years he won a Super Bowl. HE just had an elite defense and running game that could overcome that
People say Jay Cutler has a horrid Oline in Chicago. Well guess what? Jay Cutler has 12 total TDs, 14 total turnovers this year. 2 more turnovers than TDs just like Vick. Difference is again an elite Chicago Bears defense (outside of Kaepernick game)
So even on winning teams, QB is going to have about as many turnovers as TDs or more turnovers than TDs if his Oline is garbage |
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BBIB
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 7414
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| BLick12 wrote: | | marky_b27 wrote: | | Bednarik60 wrote: | Is Vick much better in this offense then Foles at this point? Not really.
Foles seems way more poised and calmer back there tho not delivering points or anything its less as crazy as it was with Vick who i dont think any one knew what he was going to do any given play. |
No, there isn't much difference.
Foles is making some rookie mistakes, but then Vick is making the same mistakes, and he's been in the league for 10 years. |
Every QB is going to make mistakes when they have pressure directly in the their face. On the first play of the game last night in the NE/Jets game Brady got sacked because his OG got beat cleanly by a DT. Well, this happens with regularity against the Eagles. Each play is just a jailbreak, it is truly pathetic. Vick exacerbates the problem by trying to do too much, but you can't really blame him when he is about to get crushed each time he goes back to pass. Foles is a surprisingly decent athlete but all these teams with real DEs are gonna eat him for lunch. |
THANK YOU. At least one person gets it.
Take Vick and Foles out the equation. Go back and watch film of any elite QB struggle and the common theme more than likely outside of them simply making bad decisions on that day is that they were constantly under duress.
Why did Peyton Manning struggle vs 3-4 defenses over the years for a long stint? Because those defenses consistently got pressure on him.
Heck even during Peyton Manning's 2006 Super Bowl run he had twice as many turnovers as TDs in the post-season.
When has Brady looked human? When he's been under constant duress like vs the Giants in the Super Bowl who held the Pats to 14 points in their 1st Super Bowl meeting vs the Giants and 17 in their 2nd meeting.
And again that's the pressure the Eagles have faced virtually EVERY GAME this season.
Does Vick make it worse at times with how he holds on to the ball? ABSOLUTELY. But by the same token, there are plays that he avoids that almost no other QB could avoid as well.
And it's also exacerbated that the Eagles didn't even take a look at Plaxico Burress as a redzone threat who I predict will be an outstanding pickup for the Steelers in that very region the Eagles have been dreadful. |
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Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: #championchip 2012 HoF
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Even if Foles isn't the quick fix, Vick isn't the long term fix either.
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 | theuntouchable wrote: | | Think about this phire. I am the real chow. |
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ninjapirate
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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What about when Vick sucked in 2011 and our oline was fine?
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Eagles_808
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ninjapirate wrote: | | What about when Vick sucked in 2011 and our oline was fine? |
Last year actually made me yearn for the days of the McNabb era.  At least he took care of the football much better, considering he had one of the best TD:INT ratios over the 10 year span he was here.
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BLick12
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ninjapirate wrote: | | What about when Vick sucked in 2011 and our oline was fine? |
Well, it doesn't help when your "#1 WR" is playing at 50% the entire year.
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| johndeere1707 wrote: |
Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.
Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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marky_b27
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 17010
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BBIB wrote: | | marky_b27 wrote: |
No, there isn't much difference.
Foles is making some rookie mistakes, but then Vick is making the same mistakes, and he's been in the league for 10 years. |
But again how can you evaluate rookie mistake vs mistake because you are under durress because your offensive line is garbage?
Matt Ryan, Joe Flaco, RGIII, all these QBs who have had success in recent memory as rookies or any QB in any year for that matter, had that success because they had protection[
People say Big Ben had garbage Oline a few years, but guess what Big Ben also had more turnovers than TDs a couple of years as well including one of the years he won a Super Bowl. HE just had an elite defense and running game that could overcome that
People say Jay Cutler has a horrid Oline in Chicago. Well guess what? Jay Cutler has 12 total TDs, 14 total turnovers this year. 2 more turnovers than TDs just like Vick. Difference is again an elite Chicago Bears defense (outside of Kaepernick game)
So even on winning teams, QB is going to have about as many turnovers as TDs or more turnovers than TDs if his Oline is garbage |
Because the stupid mistakes that Vick made was what he did early this year and last year as well - you know when the Eagles had their full offensive line.
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| oland11 on America's use of Fahrenheit wrote: | | I know. We're stupid. |
| RainbowCarebear wrote: | | Again bloody fool him Howie. |
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PowerElite
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| The Eagles offensive line stunk at the beginning of last season, in pass protection. Are you all trying to say that Howard Mudd got off to a fast start with his scheme? |
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Vindicatedxx
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 609
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| I question whether Vick/Foles are even getting an 100% fair chance behind this garbage Oline? I mean will either of them ever play good with this bad of an Oline? |
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Avenging his brother by slaying three of Prince Rhaegar's bannermen and later Rodrik Greyjoy
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Vindicatedxx wrote: | | I question whether Vick/Foles are even getting an 100% fair chance behind this garbage Oline? I mean will either of them ever play good with this bad of an Oline? |
A good QB should be playing good regardless of his Oline.
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"Of gold and silver and gemstones, it had none; bronze and iron were the metals of winter"
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Nabbs4u
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
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Location: Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| RainbowCarebear wrote: | | Vindicatedxx wrote: | | I question whether Vick/Foles are even getting an 100% fair chance behind this garbage Oline? I mean will either of them ever play good with this bad of an Oline? |
A good QB should be playing good regardless of his Oline. |
Not many do though RC. You go throughout the league and the majority of those who have success in a given game or season have very good line play. Yes there are exceptions to the rule like Big Ben and at times Rodgers but the vast majority get that clean pocket to work in.
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nlesthought
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 7607
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Nabbs4u wrote: | | RainbowCarebear wrote: | | Vindicatedxx wrote: | | I question whether Vick/Foles are even getting an 100% fair chance behind this garbage Oline? I mean will either of them ever play good with this bad of an Oline? |
A good QB should be playing good regardless of his Oline. |
Not many do though RC. You go throughout the league and the majority of those who have success in a given game or season have very good line play. Yes there are exceptions to the rule like Big Ben and at times Rodgers but the vast majority get that clean pocket to work in. |
Big Ben is the only exception IMO. Rodgers has just enough pass blocking and is savvy enough to elude a heavy pass rush.
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| Phire wrote: | | Brady, Rodgers, or Manning will win this Super Bowl. |
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