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So who is worth keeping around next year?
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
McFadden - Unless we can get a decent draft trade (which i doubt given his production and injuries this year)


What would you consider decent value?


I wouldn't let him go for less than a low 2nd. 'If' and its a big 'If' we can get the OL to at least average standard (ala last season) McFadden can be one of the most explosive backs in football.


No one will give a 2nd up for a back who gets hurt every single year and is only averaging 2.5 YPC this season or whatever he's getting. How do we know this "explosive" year he had last season wasn't a fluke? Not suggesting it is but so far, his bad years heavily outweigh his good ones.


I totally agree that it's very unlikely to get any decent value that's why i had Mcfadden in the 'keepers'.

As for trading him for a 4th I'd rather see what he can do here once we get some linemen who can block, what is a 4th?? a reserve G or a backup TE......... I'll take my chances on McFadden for that Wink

I think the season and a half he had in 2010 and 2011 should convimnce most people he is no 'fluke'. Passes the eye test for me (ina PBS at least Laughing )
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
I wouldn't let him go for less than a low 2nd. 'If' and its a big 'If' we can get the OL to at least average standard (ala last season) McFadden can be one of the most explosive backs in football.


And then he'd have to stay healthy. And that's assuming he can produce in a ZBS if we stick to it. But that'd be just for one year since he's a FA at the end of the 2013 season.

So, yeah, i'd be happy with a 4th at this point.


I wouldn't do it for a 4th. IMHO draft picks are overrated when used in player trades, for example since 2000 in the 4th round we have drafted:

Junior Ioane, Shurron Pierson, Carlos Francis, Darnell Bing, Michael Bush, John Bowie, Tyvon Branch, Arman Shields, Louis Murphy, Slade Norris, Bruce Campbell, Jacoby Ford, Taiwan Jones, Chimdi Chekwa and Miles Burris.

Would you honestly swap DMC for any of those??

Now I know the chance is there of landing a Tom Brady or a Justin Tuck but the chance is so remote, to me it's equivalent of trading a very good RB who admittedly has injury issues for a Nr 4 WR or a camp body DB.
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uncraiders20


Joined: 17 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.


We have a RB that can play? Who? Goodson is the only one but his carries are so limited, they don't hold any water.

Definitely not time for Pryor. If you put him in w/ Carson doing pretty good, that pretty much guarantees Carson is going to retire when he has a couple more good years left in him then when Pryor reveals how awful he is, we instantly have no QB and we're back at square one. There is literally no reason whatsoever to sit Palmer. None. Not at all. Zip. Nada. Zilch.....
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.


We have a RB that can play? Who? Goodson is the only one but his carries are so limited, they don't hold any water.

Definitely not time for Pryor. If you put him in w/ Carson doing pretty good, that pretty much guarantees Carson is going to retire when he has a couple more good years left in him then when Pryor reveals how awful he is, we instantly have no QB and we're back at square one. There is literally no reason whatsoever to sit Palmer. None. Not at all. Zip. Nada. Zilch.....


You don't think McFadden can play after what he showed during the past 2 seasons?
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.


I think we have to use a draft pick on a RB regardless. Dmac has one year left on his contract. Goodson is a FA and they don't trust Jones at all. We need to get a guy who can fit that scheme at some point during the draft.
Now McFadden isn't changing anything for this current team but he's earning a lot. I can't envision a scenario where he's brought back after 2013 so i'd rather get the opportunity to draft a player who could contribute for the next 4 years when we hopefully become a better team.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.


We have a RB that can play? Who? Goodson is the only one but his carries are so limited, they don't hold any water.

Definitely not time for Pryor. If you put him in w/ Carson doing pretty good, that pretty much guarantees Carson is going to retire when he has a couple more good years left in him then when Pryor reveals how awful he is, we instantly have no QB and we're back at square one. There is literally no reason whatsoever to sit Palmer. None. Not at all. Zip. Nada. Zilch.....


You don't think McFadden can play after what he showed during the past 2 seasons?


What do the last two seasons have to do w/ THIS season? What about the seasons before last two? Why are they not being a focal point when talking about the past and conveniently omitted??
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.


We have a RB that can play? Who? Goodson is the only one but his carries are so limited, they don't hold any water.

Definitely not time for Pryor. If you put him in w/ Carson doing pretty good, that pretty much guarantees Carson is going to retire when he has a couple more good years left in him then when Pryor reveals how awful he is, we instantly have no QB and we're back at square one. There is literally no reason whatsoever to sit Palmer. None. Not at all. Zip. Nada. Zilch.....


You don't think McFadden can play after what he showed during the past 2 seasons?


What do the last two seasons have to do w/ THIS season? What about the seasons before last two? Why are they not being a focal point when talking about the past and conveniently omitted??


I thought you were just talking in general. I agree. Our rushing attack has been horrible. Not sure I'd put that all on him though. Depending on who we hire at OC, DMC has a chance of bouncing back next season.
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uncraiders20


Joined: 17 May 2008
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Location: Rochester NY
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.


We have a RB that can play? Who? Goodson is the only one but his carries are so limited, they don't hold any water.

Definitely not time for Pryor. If you put him in w/ Carson doing pretty good, that pretty much guarantees Carson is going to retire when he has a couple more good years left in him then when Pryor reveals how awful he is, we instantly have no QB and we're back at square one. There is literally no reason whatsoever to sit Palmer. None. Not at all. Zip. Nada. Zilch.....


You don't think McFadden can play after what he showed during the past 2 seasons?


What do the last two seasons have to do w/ THIS season? What about the seasons before last two? Why are they not being a focal point when talking about the past and conveniently omitted??


dmac can play, its just every time we hand off there are 2 guys in the backfield he has to avoid. from every post i read on here, everyone agrees this line is horrible, so the obvious conclusion should be dmac is going to have a horrible season because of the guys up front. if we give up dmac for a 4th round pick, it would just show me that this management would be no better then al davis.
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uncraiders20


Joined: 17 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.


We have a RB that can play? Who? Goodson is the only one but his carries are so limited, they don't hold any water.

Definitely not time for Pryor. If you put him in w/ Carson doing pretty good, that pretty much guarantees Carson is going to retire when he has a couple more good years left in him then when Pryor reveals how awful he is, we instantly have no QB and we're back at square one. There is literally no reason whatsoever to sit Palmer. None. Not at all. Zip. Nada. Zilch.....


at this point, does it matter if we have carson next year or not? i'm pretty confident we have so many problems with this team that we will not be a playoff team next year so does it matter if carson is our qb. if carson is only giving us 1-2 more years, i think its time we move on and see what we have. we need to find out if we need to draft our qb of the future or if pryor is servicable. how long are we willing to wait to get a qb for the future, and at what price?
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uncraiders20 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.


We have a RB that can play? Who? Goodson is the only one but his carries are so limited, they don't hold any water.

Definitely not time for Pryor. If you put him in w/ Carson doing pretty good, that pretty much guarantees Carson is going to retire when he has a couple more good years left in him then when Pryor reveals how awful he is, we instantly have no QB and we're back at square one. There is literally no reason whatsoever to sit Palmer. None. Not at all. Zip. Nada. Zilch.....


at this point, does it matter if we have carson next year or not? i'm pretty confident we have so many problems with this team that we will not be a playoff team next year so does it matter if carson is our qb. if carson is only giving us 1-2 more years, i think its time we move on and see what we have. we need to find out if we need to draft our qb of the future or if pryor is servicable. how long are we willing to wait to get a qb for the future, and at what price?


It's not just how Palmer translates into extra wins though........for example if we had Pryor in that could potentially stunt the growth of our WRs and TEs, Carson Palmer is a leader and an experienced head who can help our receivers, our younger players on the OL and the backfield. Also putting a young, inexperienced QB behind our OL is a recipe for ruining any chance they had of developing........see David Carr.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
uncraiders20 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
uncraiders20 wrote:
first off, i think we some people are a little carried away saying they would take a 4th for dmac. that would mean we would have to use a draft pick to get us a running back when we would already have a back that can play. i still think we are expecting to much from one player on a bad team. we need to accept the fact this is a bad team and one player is not going to change that.

on a side note, anyone else think its time to put pryor in and see what he has. im pretty confident this team is not going to the playoffs, so i think its time to let pryor loose. i like palmer, but at this point we are playing for our future so lets see what pryor offers.


We have a RB that can play? Who? Goodson is the only one but his carries are so limited, they don't hold any water.

Definitely not time for Pryor. If you put him in w/ Carson doing pretty good, that pretty much guarantees Carson is going to retire when he has a couple more good years left in him then when Pryor reveals how awful he is, we instantly have no QB and we're back at square one. There is literally no reason whatsoever to sit Palmer. None. Not at all. Zip. Nada. Zilch.....


at this point, does it matter if we have carson next year or not? i'm pretty confident we have so many problems with this team that we will not be a playoff team next year so does it matter if carson is our qb. if carson is only giving us 1-2 more years, i think its time we move on and see what we have. we need to find out if we need to draft our qb of the future or if pryor is servicable. how long are we willing to wait to get a qb for the future, and at what price?


It's not just how Palmer translates into extra wins though........for example if we had Pryor in that could potentially stunt the growth of our WRs and TEs, Carson Palmer is a leader and an experienced head who can help our receivers, our younger players on the OL and the backfield. Also putting a young, inexperienced QB behind our OL is a recipe for ruining any chance they had of developing........see David Carr.


He answered for me.... plus I'm not ready to throw in the towel to the 2013 season yet. We have a good portion of the offense. Throw in a couple of lineman who can play and a RB should succeed.

The defense though.... oh boy. We're a 2 year project IMO but that's just a realistic outlook. Given a decent draft and off-season I think we could compete next season. Why? B/c we have a QB who can play. That alone has helped us not be one of the worst teams in NFL history this season.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So'oto got picked up by GB already so cant sign him back now that Goethal is hurt. Ta' amu was released though.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:

I thought you were just talking in general. I agree. Our rushing attack has been horrible. Not sure I'd put that all on him though. Depending on who we hire at OC, DMC has a chance of bouncing back next season.


Definitely not all his fault but if he was great, I would hope he'd still be doing better than he is now. I mean, he literally is worthless out there right now. No one is scared of him, he's not getting anything accomplished except embarrassing himself, and we're still a one-dimensional offense. We definitely need line help but still, even AD would have some success behind this line. The 4th I could HOPE we'd get is strictly based on potential. Based on performance, he's not even worth a janitor to clean section 105, row 13.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
So'oto got picked up by GB already so cant sign him back now that Goethal is hurt. Ta' amu was released though.


Ta'amu was? What the hell, what do we have to lose LOL. I think we should grab him.

EDIT: After he gets out of jail of course Smile
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