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How much more do you need to see from Josh Freeman?
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Special Teamer wrote:
Didn't he have a pretty good stat on 4 quarter comebacks a few years back? I think that alone shows he has what it takes but I agree with FourThreeMafia. Consistency.


If you look at who they were against, it actually hurts him as if he were a top 10 QB, he wouldn't have had his team down in the first place. That was a huge part of my argument all of the 2010 off-season -- put his numbers in context and it paints a very different picture.
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ThatTitansFan


Joined: 02 May 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much, I think he's a clear starting level QB, probably top 15, edging towards elite.
It's not like he's ever had that much to work with. Now that Mike Williams is developing well and he's got an actual #1 to throw to in VJ, he's showing he can be a top level QB.

Tampa Bay has finally made it out of what I call the "Jacksonville trap"- that is, always being down on a QB despite the QB never having any weapons to work with.
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floppyflaps


Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
Special Teamer wrote:
Didn't he have a pretty good stat on 4 quarter comebacks a few years back? I think that alone shows he has what it takes but I agree with FourThreeMafia. Consistency.


If you look at who they were against, it actually hurts him as if he were a top 10 QB, he wouldn't have had his team down in the first place. That was a huge part of my argument all of the 2010 off-season -- put his numbers in context and it paints a very different picture.


Yet people forget that the 2010 Buccaneers basically had an expansion team level of talent.

They started 2 rookie WRs, one picked in the 2nd round and one picked in the 4th. They had an undrafted rookie at RB. The defense stunk, one of the worst rushing defenses in the league.
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Strawman Theory


Joined: 06 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope hasn't emerged. Definitely has to do with the ineptitude of his opponents as much as his ability.
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5nick5


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When looking at the teams he's faced, the numbers aren't overly impressive, but he's still exceeding expectations. We'll see how the rest of the year plays out and if he leads the Bucs to the playoffs, I'll be a fan.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freeman has probably done enough to save his job for next year at this point. I would probably put him in that 16-20 range.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

floppyflaps wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Special Teamer wrote:
Didn't he have a pretty good stat on 4 quarter comebacks a few years back? I think that alone shows he has what it takes but I agree with FourThreeMafia. Consistency.


If you look at who they were against, it actually hurts him as if he were a top 10 QB, he wouldn't have had his team down in the first place. That was a huge part of my argument all of the 2010 off-season -- put his numbers in context and it paints a very different picture.


Yet people forget that the 2010 Buccaneers basically had an expansion team level of talent.

They started 2 rookie WRs, one picked in the 2nd round and one picked in the 4th. They had an undrafted rookie at RB. The defense stunk, one of the worst rushing defenses in the league.


Man, revisionist history is a wonderful thing. It's funny how in 2010 that "undrafted rookie" and "4th round WR" were being pimped as future stars. Now in 2012 it's "oh, well they weren't that good".

All that being said, my point still stands -- Freeman's season was very much overrated and I went into much detail several times to show why exactly that was.
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Rich7sena


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: How much more do you need to see from Josh Freeman? Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
So is Freeman for real or is he just taking advantage of favorable matchups a-la 2010?


I think it's a combination of the two. He has great tools and a gambit of weapons around him. I still don't see him as being a guy to lead the Bucs to a 'ship, though.

I would like to see how he performs in the playoffs.
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bucsfan333


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: How much more do you need to see from Josh Freeman? Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
I would like to see how he performs in the playoffs.

As would I. Wink

He's finally got the weapons on offense to get us to the playoffs. We just need something that resembles a consistant pass rush and CBs that don't play like hot garbage.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikes22 wrote:
Need to see quite a bit more out of him. He's still the 4th best QB in that division.


lolz what? Cam has looked terrible this year. Freeman is the third best, without a doubt in our division...god our division is stacked at QB

I think Freeman needs to continue being consistent. Im taking one week at a time and he's keeping up on them. I think he's getting it now, o-line is playing great, he understands defenses, and his receivers are making plays.

It's great to watch, if he can get them into the Playoffs somehow after starting off 1-3 then he's there for me.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Freeman has probably done enough to save his job for next year at this point. I would probably put him in that 16-20 range.


he did that enough in the game versus the Vikings...I understand not putting him top 10, but 20? 20 seriously?

name me 19 QB's you'd rather have for your franchise
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lionslicer


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even though he's on this hot streak, he still shows inconsistencies.

But he's winning the games when it matters, so I guess that's what counts right?
The past 5 games have been better than his entire 2011 season. I hope he keeps it up and shows everyone he is a very good quarterback.
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LazyBoyFil


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikes22 wrote:
Need to see quite a bit more out of him. He's still the 4th best QB in that division.


I would say 3rd
And come on
Our division probably has the best QBs out of any other division
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RoeKG


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
floppyflaps wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
Special Teamer wrote:
Didn't he have a pretty good stat on 4 quarter comebacks a few years back? I think that alone shows he has what it takes but I agree with FourThreeMafia. Consistency.


If you look at who they were against, it actually hurts him as if he were a top 10 QB, he wouldn't have had his team down in the first place. That was a huge part of my argument all of the 2010 off-season -- put his numbers in context and it paints a very different picture.


Yet people forget that the 2010 Buccaneers basically had an expansion team level of talent.

They started 2 rookie WRs, one picked in the 2nd round and one picked in the 4th. They had an undrafted rookie at RB. The defense stunk, one of the worst rushing defenses in the league.


Man, revisionist history is a wonderful thing. It's funny how in 2010 that "undrafted rookie" and "4th round WR" were being pimped as future stars. Now in 2012 it's "oh, well they weren't that good".

All that being said, my point still stands -- Freeman's season was very much overrated and I went into much detail several times to show why exactly that was.


I remember you saying the players around Freeman were these great players more than everybody else...

Flaccomania wrote:

Rookie or not rookie, Blount still ran for a 5.0 YPC.

And Williams, again, was a 1st round talent WR with undraftable attitude problems. But let's not minimize his talent level.


Flaccomania wrote:
Freeman didn't have many weapons last year, I agree, but this year while his weapons were very young, they are absolutely talented. Benn was a 2nd round pick, Williams was a 2nd round talent that fell due to character concerns, and Blount was a 2nd round talent that fell out of the draft completely due to his concerns.


So who's the revising historian? Most of these convos were Bucs fans saying Freeman was playing with rookies in 2010 - not future superstars because most of us remember Michael Clayton - and you saying they were good players.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He needs to finish the season strong, and come back strong next season.
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