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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
Jrugges wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
DetroitWhat wrote:
For me the answer is simple. We aren't aggressive until we are behind. By then its too late. Linehan seems like hes playing not to lose it in the first half and in the 2nd half he calls plays like its life or death.

If we took a life or death approach in the first half with the talent we have then we would be much better. We would have more turnovers but more overall offensive production. Funny thing is our offense is still like top 3-4 for yards per game even with our slow starts.


Linehan is calling plays that send targets deep, Stafford has just turned into captain check down for the first three quarters, and he is even struggling to complete those.


I'm not understanding your stances... Your really trying to convince us that the play calling is the same from first to 2nd half, cause it's clearly not, and the amount of times we run vs pass definately suggest that from 1st half to 2nd halfs.

Not to mention theres a difference between sending Calvin Johnson deep and sending "little wigs" like Young/Broyles who haven't really shown they can beat there guys 1on1 unless Stafford makes a great throw. It's not just about going deep though. It's about getting your best players the ball and Calvin Johnson does not make plays early on for some reason, and that falls on the coaching staff imo to design plays/ game plans to make him open.

This season to me Tony Scheffler has clearly been the better recieving TE getting more space and hanging onto the ball better but still gets less playing time and seems like less targets. The staff aren't making adjustments. Burlesson was clearly ineffective before his injury and they still trotted him out. Logan even, as a returner, is clearly ineffective yet they trot him out. I understand it's hard to "fix" things in season but shouldn't there be SOMEONE somewhere in the organization ready to even "try" to step up to the plate?


A great deal of the attack requires Stafford to make quick reads and find the open receiver. In the first half against Seattle CJ was wide open down field numerous times and Stafford didn't see him. He locked on to his first target.

I think it's far to early to be critical of Broyles. He isn't getting many looks but what gets thrown his way he catches. Titus is a different story.

The difference in the second half is Detroit is always behind and Stafford starts looking down field.


Maybe he was open, numerous times is questionable, imo, since he only caught 3 passes the whole game and Sherman if I remember right did play pretty tight coverage on him a lot. If I'm not mistaken that's the game where other players on offense did actually step up and I think Titus Young had two TD's.

Another game where Lions couldn't get their star player into the game really but thank god the others stepped up. Supposedly thats why we drafted Pettigrew/Young.

I can't pin-point and say Stafford was/wasn't hitting his first reads because I'm not sure or not if the guys were open he was passing too on his first reads anyways. I'd need to watch in-game with you to fully understand what your saying Diehard. I'm sure Stafford didn't over look Calvin Johnson open more than a hand-full of times but I could be wrong and he could of done it all game.

That game the lions also threw the ball about 50 times, which is what I think they need to go to win games because the O-line/Run game isn't meant to be leaned on to win a game or grind a tough one out. Lions should think about getting leads then grinding games out vs grinding the whole first half out to try and blow them up in the 2nd half/4th quarter.


The reason I mention the Seattle game is because I was there and I focused on Stafford and Calvin a great deal in the first half. Trust me, there were numerous plays where he was wide open. In one instance he had beat the corner with no safety help, had two strides on the corner and had Stafford seen him it was a gimme TD.

I'm at a loss as to why the offence struggles early. Against the Vikes they threw 20 times in the first half and 22 times in the second half so play calling is much more balanced than it feels.

It just makes no sense to me that Lions offence is night and day between the first and second half. Every category I look at the difference is astounding. Points, yards, QBR, completion percentage.

It's frustrating to watch. We have seen evidence that the talent is there so why so inconsistent? It makes no sense to me.

The other observation I've made is in watching Stafford on the sideline he just seems to be, meh.

Being calm is one thing but he, IMHO, needs to get hyped by the game and start pumping up the offence. Currently he just sits on the sideline with his cap on backwards, reviews some aerial shots with Linehan and sits there. The fans are more stoked than he is.

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the dressing room. It just seems collectively the Lions are flat. The fire and determination from last year just isn't there. Heck even KVB looks like he's on Valium.

Oh well, it looks like stat watching will be the high lite of this season. Watching how many yards CJ can rack up. I hope he has a couple more big games. I would love to see him have more yards than last season.
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think Stafford would benefit from an offensive guru like a Payton or McCarthy. Has all the talent in the world. I feel as though in order for Detroit to take their game to the next level they should copy the approach of a New Orleans or GB. Think it starts with a coaching change for you guys. Just didn't see the progress I was fearing to see this year. Would be a tough call but one that needs to be made before Stafford and CJ get too old.
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MNPackfan32


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
I really think Stafford would benefit from an offensive guru like a Payton or McCarthy. Has all the talent in the world. I feel as though in order for Detroit to take their game to the next level they should copy the approach of a New Orleans or GB. Think it starts with a coaching change for you guys. Just didn't see the progress I was fearing to see this year. Would be a tough call but one that needs to be made before Stafford and CJ get too old.
The big problem with doing this is, Jim came into a 0-16 team. He took the team to the playoffs and now you are going to can him after 1 "down" season? I use down season very loosely because they are still in the thick of things. If you are Mayhew and you fire Schwartz and next year the new guy has the same or worse record people are going to be calling for your head, and rightfully so. Thats a big risk he would be taking, I very seriously doubt it happens. Maybe they should just hire a new OC??
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
The big problem with doing this is, Jim came into a 0-16 team. He took the team to the playoffs and now you are going to can him after 1 "down" season? I use down season very loosely because they are still in the thick of things. If you are Mayhew and you fire Schwartz and next year the new guy has the same or worse record people are going to be calling for your head, and rightfully so. Thats a big risk he would be taking, I very seriously doubt it happens. Maybe they should just hire a new OC??


That's another option if the oc has a very powerful role sorta like dom and mm in gb. Sorta co head coaches ish
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TheROARisBACK


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
I really think Stafford would benefit from an offensive guru like a Payton or McCarthy. Has all the talent in the world. I feel as though in order for Detroit to take their game to the next level they should copy the approach of a New Orleans or GB. Think it starts with a coaching change for you guys. Just didn't see the progress I was fearing to see this year. Would be a tough call but one that needs to be made before Stafford and CJ get too old.
The big problem with doing this is, Jim came into a 0-16 team. He took the team to the playoffs and now you are going to can him after 1 "down" season? I use down season very loosely because they are still in the thick of things. If you are Mayhew and you fire Schwartz and next year the new guy has the same or worse record people are going to be calling for your head, and rightfully so. Thats a big risk he would be taking, I very seriously doubt it happens. Maybe they should just hire a new OC??


Yeah we recently extended Schwartz and I don't see him leaving anytime soon. A new OC would be a welcome change.
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OnlikeNdamukong


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheROARisBACK wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
I really think Stafford would benefit from an offensive guru like a Payton or McCarthy. Has all the talent in the world. I feel as though in order for Detroit to take their game to the next level they should copy the approach of a New Orleans or GB. Think it starts with a coaching change for you guys. Just didn't see the progress I was fearing to see this year. Would be a tough call but one that needs to be made before Stafford and CJ get too old.
The big problem with doing this is, Jim came into a 0-16 team. He took the team to the playoffs and now you are going to can him after 1 "down" season? I use down season very loosely because they are still in the thick of things. If you are Mayhew and you fire Schwartz and next year the new guy has the same or worse record people are going to be calling for your head, and rightfully so. Thats a big risk he would be taking, I very seriously doubt it happens. Maybe they should just hire a new OC??


Yeah we recently extended Schwartz and I don't see him leaving anytime soon. A new OC would be a welcome change.


Im on board with this. Schwartz isnt going anywhere in the immediate future and I dont think he should. Linehan might have to go if this keeps up, I worry that management is in denial about what they have with him. We have way too much talent on offense to be starting off slow every game. It's amazing to watch this offense take shots in the second half and complete long passes and touchdowns, its pathetic that we play so conservative that the deficit is too big by the time we are willing to take shots.
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38andy38


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
38andy38 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford.


LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up.


Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash.


Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford.


?

Maybe I didn't word it well but I was trying to say I'd take Long & Finnegan in a flash but Bradford I would want no part of.

Stafford > Bradford

I'll take Staffords inaccuracy and gunslinger mentality over the clueless Bradford any day. The boxscore just does not reflect that Sam doesnt seem to be getting it at the NFL level, I realize this will be seen as a declaration of war DHLF Laughing but some of the errors and mistakes Bradford makes mentally and as the leader of the offense would be far more frustrating to watch on a weekly basis than Stafford missing 40% of his throws in a wild fashion.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

38andy38 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
38andy38 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford.


LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up.


Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash.


Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford.


?

Maybe I didn't word it well but I was trying to say I'd take Long & Finnegan in a flash but Bradford I would want no part of.

Stafford > Bradford

I'll take Staffords inaccuracy and gunslinger mentality over the clueless Bradford any day. The boxscore just does not reflect that Sam doesnt seem to be getting it at the NFL level, I realize this will be seen as a declaration of war DHLF Laughing but some of the errors and mistakes Bradford makes mentally and as the leader of the offense would be far more frustrating to watch on a weekly basis than Stafford missing 40% of his throws in a wild fashion.


I was simply stating I think the three players offer more to the Lions than Stafford.

In Bradford's defence he hasn't exactly had a stable situation with the Rams.

He has gone through a coaching change, suffered with injuries and doesn't have anywhere near the supporting cast Stafford has and hasn't benefitted from having consistency in the receiving core. I've seen him make some bone headed plays but I can say the same thing about Stafford.

I don't expect a great deal of support for my thoughts on Bradford especially when I'm comparing him to Stafford but the two players have had vastly different situations and the Lions have offered Stafford much more consistency and have invested far more heavily in Stafford's success.
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bdubs3316


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
38andy38 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
38andy38 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford.


LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up.


Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash.


Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford.


?

Maybe I didn't word it well but I was trying to say I'd take Long & Finnegan in a flash but Bradford I would want no part of.

Stafford > Bradford

I'll take Staffords inaccuracy and gunslinger mentality over the clueless Bradford any day. The boxscore just does not reflect that Sam doesnt seem to be getting it at the NFL level, I realize this will be seen as a declaration of war DHLF Laughing but some of the errors and mistakes Bradford makes mentally and as the leader of the offense would be far more frustrating to watch on a weekly basis than Stafford missing 40% of his throws in a wild fashion.


I was simply stating I think the three players offer more to the Lions than Stafford.

In Bradford's defence he hasn't exactly had a stable situation with the Rams.

He has gone through a coaching change, suffered with injuries and doesn't have anywhere near the supporting cast Stafford has and hasn't benefitted from having consistency in the receiving core. I've seen him make some bone headed plays but I can say the same thing about Stafford.

I don't expect a great deal of support for my thoughts on Bradford especially when I'm comparing him to Stafford but the two players have had vastly different situations and the Lions have offered Stafford much more consistency and have invested far more heavily in Stafford's success.


while the other players/picks would put the trade into a category of "need to accept"...Stafford has still vastly outplayed Bradford.

Bradford doesnt have Calvin, but i'd put his other receivers on par with the remainder of the Lions receivers. I'd say his RB (S-Jax) is better than what we have. Both QBs have to run for their lives at times.

due to the other players/pics that we'd be receiving, we'd have to do the deal...but that deal would never be offered. and I wouldnt even come close to doing a Stafford for Bradford deal.
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detroitroar


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
38andy38 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford.


LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up.


Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash.


Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford.


Your often critical of Stafford but this is just ridiculous.

I guess clutch QB's like Stafford are easy to find?
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ahoda


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detroitroar wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
38andy38 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford.


LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up.


Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash.


Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford.


Your often critical of Stafford but this is just ridiculous.

I guess clutch QB's like Stafford are easy to find?


He's only clutch because he sucks the first 3 quarters of a football game.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahoda wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
38andy38 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
Trade him to the Rams for all their draft picks, Chris Long, Finnegan, and Bradford.


LOL, I would do that in a heartbeat. To bad the Rams would simply chuckle and hang up.


Yuck, sorry but Bradford wouldn't be any better, Long & Finnegan I'd take in a heartbeat. Trade Suh for them in a flash.


Long, Finnegan and Bradford > Stafford.


Your often critical of Stafford but this is just ridiculous.

I guess clutch QB's like Stafford are easy to find?


He's only clutch because he sucks the first 3 quarters of a football game.
3 quarters are better than 1
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RyanFuller003


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
3 quarters are better than 1

Only if those three quarters are actually good. Bradford at his best hasn't shown nearly the kind of ability Stafford has shown when he's at his best.
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ahoda


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanFuller003 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
3 quarters are better than 1

Only if those three quarters are actually good. Bradford at his best hasn't shown nearly the kind of ability Stafford has shown when he's at his best.


Bradford also doesn't have CJ either.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope Bradford don't have Calvin but he does have Steven Jackson still!

I like to see the Lions give Stafford a better running game let him throw 30 to 35 times a game but we have to have a running game.

I like Leshore he might be the answer back there but the Lions need to address there Defense we need some help in that back end!

I say we draft play makers in the back end!
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