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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 733
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
There's still people that value CBs as worthy first round picks? LOL....


I do. Not for this team right now, but elite CB prospects like Patrick Peterson or Joe Haden are definitely picks id make in the first round.

But I'm a big BPA type drafter. You need talent all over the field.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
There's still people that value CBs as worthy first round picks? LOL....


Jonathan Joseph, Joe Haden, Darrell Revis, Patrick Peterson, Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, and Charles Woodson were all picked in the 1st round. You wouldn't want any of those players?
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11582
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
There's still people that value CBs as worthy first round picks? LOL....


Jonathan Joseph, Joe Haden, Darrell Revis, Patrick Peterson, Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, and Charles Woodson were all picked in the 1st round. You wouldn't want any of those players?


Revis' class turned out to be pretty top heavy but still, he doesn't add the value to the team that the "Best CB in the league (and to some, best defensive player)" does. Back when he got hurt, I did a brief amount of research after Revis went down for the season. He got hurt against SF and compare the Jets the first 3 games then the next 3 post injury, and their pass defense actually got better against superior competition when compared to the first 3 games. So you have the best defensive player (to some) go down, but the team gets better? Nope. The value isn't there.

I really don't need to go further into this b/c Revis is better than all those people. Nnamdi was the best w/ us and he didn't do crap to help us win games. Woodson is the only one I would even consider taking and that's due to his versatility to play safety. If your best player goes down, your team should not improve, period. The Jets did against better competition.

Overrated. CB just isn't a position that effects a team as much as the QB, people who protect the QB, the defensive trenches, and the LB corp. You can have a great defense w/ marginal CBs and a great front 7... consistently. The Steelers are a prime example.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac505 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
There's still people that value CBs as worthy first round picks? LOL....


I do. Not for this team right now, but elite CB prospects like Patrick Peterson or Joe Haden are definitely picks id make in the first round.

But I'm a big BPA type drafter. You need talent all over the field.


You do need talent all over the field but ELITE talent should be used every single play, correct? CBs aren't even factors in most running plays so you get 50% of your investment. I like BPA in specific positions. I wouldn't touch CBs or RBs in the first round...... majority of the time at least (mainly for RBs). There's exceptions to absolutely everything.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another value of CB discussion with JTagg.

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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Another value of CB discussion with JTagg.

edit overused gif


I know. I wish SOMEONE could provide me something good to negate my theory instead of Revis proving me more correct this season.
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CaribouLou


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lilcrazycat1 wrote:
am i the only one with a huge hatred for matt giordano??


No.

http://www3.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=463480&view=next

I posted that here last year, and my opinion hasn't changed. He just constantly let's up big plays.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaribouLou wrote:
lilcrazycat1 wrote:
am i the only one with a huge hatred for matt giordano??


http://www3.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=463480&view=next

I posted that here last year, and my opinion hasn't changed. He just constantly let's up big plays.


I have been saying Gio is trash for a while now and how I don't even know if he'd made 50% of other team's rosters. Our S corp is awful and needs to be changed.
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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 733
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Another value of CB discussion with JTagg.

edit overused gif


I know. I wish SOMEONE could provide me something good to negate my theory instead of Revis proving me more correct this season.


The only thing I can say against your theory is that you are arguing 7 is greater than 4. So it is tough to argue against. Obviously I would take an elite front 7 over an elite secondary, as it is a bigger part of D.

And to say that CBs arent ran at 50%, is just a stat. Because if teams new that a specific CB cant tackle, then they will run towards him. Its part of why our run game has been bad, once the RB gets outside it seems our CBs never make the tackle.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
There's still people that value CBs as worthy first round picks? LOL....


Jonathan Joseph, Joe Haden, Darrell Revis, Patrick Peterson, Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, and Charles Woodson were all picked in the 1st round. You wouldn't want any of those players?


Revis' class turned out to be pretty top heavy but still, he doesn't add the value to the team that the "Best CB in the league (and to some, best defensive player)" does. Back when he got hurt, I did a brief amount of research after Revis went down for the season. He got hurt against SF and compare the Jets the first 3 games then the next 3 post injury, and their pass defense actually got better against superior competition when compared to the first 3 games. So you have the best defensive player (to some) go down, but the team gets better? Nope. The value isn't there.

I really don't need to go further into this b/c Revis is better than all those people. Nnamdi was the best w/ us and he didn't do crap to help us win games. Woodson is the only one I would even consider taking and that's due to his versatility to play safety. If your best player goes down, your team should not improve, period. The Jets did against better competition.

Overrated. CB just isn't a position that effects a team as much as the QB, people who protect the QB, the defensive trenches, and the LB corp. You can have a great defense w/ marginal CBs and a great front 7... consistently. The Steelers are a prime example.


You are right with the CB being worth less it's just too easy to just avoid the CB like they did with Aso.
Top CBs also get over paid 10-17 million a year for a CB is ridiculous.


Last edited by bitty on Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11582
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac505 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Another value of CB discussion with JTagg.

edit overused gif


I know. I wish SOMEONE could provide me something good to negate my theory instead of Revis proving me more correct this season.


The only thing I can say against your theory is that you are arguing 7 is greater than 4. So it is tough to argue against. Obviously I would take an elite front 7 over an elite secondary, as it is a bigger part of D.

And to say that CBs arent ran at 50%, is just a stat. Because if teams new that a specific CB cant tackle, then they will run towards him. Its part of why our run game has been bad, once the RB gets outside it seems our CBs never make the tackle.


Feel free to pick any position you wish instead of a group. S included. All are more involved in the game than the CB is. Also, if the RB even gets outside, that means the ends and OLB didn't do their job most of the time...
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaribouLou wrote:
lilcrazycat1 wrote:
am i the only one with a huge hatred for matt giordano??


No.

http://www3.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=463480&view=next

I posted that here last year, and my opinion hasn't changed. He just constantly let's up big plays.


the ints the last few year saved him from having his name ran through the dirt. without the ints he is just horrible. i remember in the tampa game when the rb juked him at the 1 yard line and gio got injured and none of his teammates even offered to help him up. everyone just headed to the sideline iirc.

is mike mitch really that bad?
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NCOUGHMAN >>>>>> all of you
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dmac505


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Another value of CB discussion with JTagg.

edit overused gif


I know. I wish SOMEONE could provide me something good to negate my theory instead of Revis proving me more correct this season.


The only thing I can say against your theory is that you are arguing 7 is greater than 4. So it is tough to argue against. Obviously I would take an elite front 7 over an elite secondary, as it is a bigger part of D.

And to say that CBs arent ran at 50%, is just a stat. Because if teams new that a specific CB cant tackle, then they will run towards him. Its part of why our run game has been bad, once the RB gets outside it seems our CBs never make the tackle.


Feel free to pick any position you wish instead of a group. S included. All are more involved in the game than the CB is. Also, if the RB even gets outside, that means the ends and OLB didn't do their job most of the time...


to your last point, I agree, the OLB and the DE do deserve blame. But the difference between good run and bad run Ds is that good run Ds dont give up the big runs. When the RB bounces outside the CBs need to be able to make the play. Ours don't, and those 5 - 7 yard runs turn into 60 yarders.

The CBs job on run plays, is to contain him inside. push him back to the inside where the DE or OLB can get him. Watch a real good tackling CB and you can see how valuable they are.

To the other point, I truly believe that as long as you have a couple elite players at any positions and respectable starters at the others you have the talent to be elite, you just need coaching or time.

I have a hard time saying CBs are less important than DEs, but i also have a hard time saying DEs are less important than CBs.

To say CBs arent involved in the run means, youve seen to many Raider games, or you follow the media hype that the best CBs are the ones with lots of INTs or low complete % (while i agree some of them are) But teams with good tackling Corners are less likely to give up the home run runs. (worded poorly)
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Mitchell is a strong safety. Why are people even suggesting he play FS?
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Mike Mitchell is a strong safety. Why are people even suggesting he play FS?


He played FS in college.
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