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bears2308
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 2387
Location: Indianapolis
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 Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Madmike90 wrote: | | bears2308 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | bears2308 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | The rest of this season and all of next season. |
If Carimi continues to be a weak spot and struggles in the playoffs he still gets all of next season handed to him because....he was Angelo's 1st rounder?
No. Emery knows our only weak spot on offense is the o-line and TE. If you think Emery has no idea that Cutler was sacked 7 times in the first half against Carolina and has been getting hit on a regular basis then your thoughts for Carimi are purely based on hope. I expect our 1st or 2nd to be on the o-line or tight-end position, and the one we don't draft will be picked up in FA. I'm going to guess the TE is found in FA. |
No because he would have played a grand total of 18 regular season games and a few in the playoffs depending on how far we go...let's be optimistic and say 21 games over the course of two season...is 21 games enough time to accurately judge a player? |
If he remains terrible then wouldn't you look to replace him? That's what a good GM does. I think you're still stuck in the Angelo days. |
After 21 games I wouldn't look to replace him...that's called realism and not thinking you can just bin guys over and over again and keep spending resources if a guy isn't an all pro right away. |
Ok, now you're saying after 21 games when my initial post was arguing how you believe he should remain the starter all of next season if he REMAINS JUST AS BAD AS HE IS NOW.
21 games you can get an idea of the player. A season can tell quite a bit. If he doesn't show any improvements until the season is over then I expect Emery to get a guy that can compete.
I'm not saying we should draft a tackle in the first to replace him. That would be jumping the gun too quick. Do we need a back-up plan for next year if he continues his poor play? Definitely. A free-agent would be ideal. |
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Madmike90
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 18563
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bears2308 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | bears2308 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | bears2308 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | The rest of this season and all of next season. |
If Carimi continues to be a weak spot and struggles in the playoffs he still gets all of next season handed to him because....he was Angelo's 1st rounder?
No. Emery knows our only weak spot on offense is the o-line and TE. If you think Emery has no idea that Cutler was sacked 7 times in the first half against Carolina and has been getting hit on a regular basis then your thoughts for Carimi are purely based on hope. I expect our 1st or 2nd to be on the o-line or tight-end position, and the one we don't draft will be picked up in FA. I'm going to guess the TE is found in FA. |
No because he would have played a grand total of 18 regular season games and a few in the playoffs depending on how far we go...let's be optimistic and say 21 games over the course of two season...is 21 games enough time to accurately judge a player? |
If he remains terrible then wouldn't you look to replace him? That's what a good GM does. I think you're still stuck in the Angelo days. |
After 21 games I wouldn't look to replace him...that's called realism and not thinking you can just bin guys over and over again and keep spending resources if a guy isn't an all pro right away. |
Ok, now you're saying after 21 games when my initial post was arguing how you believe he should remain the starter all of next season if he REMAINS JUST AS BAD AS HE IS NOW.
21 games you can get an idea of the player. A season can tell quite a bit. If he doesn't show any improvements until the season is over then I expect Emery to get a guy that can compete.
I'm not saying we should draft a tackle in the first to replace him. That would be jumping the gun too quick. Do we need a back-up plan for next year if he continues his poor play? Definitely. A free-agent would be ideal. |
I don’t really see your point here…I’m saying that if we make it all the way to the SB and Carimi is healthy throughout he will still have only played 21 games for us…I still don’t feel that is enough time to judge a player who is not only basically a rookie but who is also coming off a yearlong injury with no offseason and is also learning a new position…as I have said before it is easy to say bench a guy or bring in someone to compete with him but where are the resources coming from? You’re going to have to spend decent money in FA to find someone who is good enough to come in and compete as well as finding a guy who will come in without being guaranteed a starting job in FA…you take away resources from other areas of the team…same applies if you try and bring in guys in the draft…there are only so many resources to go around. |
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AZBearsFan
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 8900
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Webb was the worst RT in the league in 2010 and the worst LT in the league in 2011 before he has become somewhat adequate this year. I agree that we should add a top tier backup OT this offseason at minimum but I think we need to do that even if Carimi is excellent going forward. The guy is essentially a rookie. I understand that he was a 1st round pick but he was far from a pick with a perceived flawless skill set coming out and then he spent nearly 10 months on the shelf without so much as an on field practice coming into TC.
Is it frustrating that his pass pro has been subpar? Of course. But is it unrealistic to expect that a guy who came into the league with pass pro questions and who didn't play or practice for almost an entire year would just all of a sudden not have some of those same inadequacies once he got on the field? Again, of course. Guys need to develop. It's no different than that Bennett and DJ Moore were never on the field as rookies but are good now, only that those guys practiced all year while not playing where Carimi didn't, and that Carimi isn't being afforded the same luxury of patience to develop.
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ak06max
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 1202
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Madmike90 wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | The rest of this season and all of next season. |
If he is this big a liability this season through 18-19 games you want him to be the unquestioned starter next season?
For me is he continues like this and we do not see a marked improvement then we need a contingency plan for next year. Either we sign a LT like Clady or Bushrod and we send Webb to compete at RT or we get a really good back up RT.
He is the worst starter on the team right now and that should be reserved for Kellen Davis. |
This is just going over old ground before but Carimi hasn’t been quite as bad as many are making out…yes he has struggled badly in pass pro…he has been slow out of his stance on a number of occasion and has been too aggressive leaving him open to counter moves…the pressures & penalties are without doubt the biggest concern and giving up an average of a sack every two games is also unacceptable…however his run blocking has been very solid on the right side combined with Louis…it’s no coincidence that Forte is averaging a career high in YPC because the Oline as a whole are run blocking better this year…Carimi himself is 10 games into an NFL career…a career that was stalled by a long term injury and a positional switch…he has to be given time to adjust to not only playing in the NFL with the extra speed but to playing a position that isn’t natural to him yet…pulling the plug on anyone after 10 games is extremely short sighted...even if he does play at the same level for the rest of the season he has to go into next year at the unquestioned starter at RT for next season IMO even if we do go out and draft or sign another OT in the offseason. |
exactly... We should all be discussing Webb not Carimi. If this was Webbs time table he would of been gone a long time ago. Carimi I believe is still not 100% he is playing through pain.Carimi has to learn that he needs to play through pain at the NFL level .
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7060
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| WindyCity wrote: |
Major Wright did not get 21 games of being bad before we drafted Hardin.
Major Wright could not stay healthy that is why they were still looking AND he was not a 1st round pick. No comparison to Carimi.
Izzy was average over 16 games last season and we drafted to replace him. Izzy is getting old. And is not a 1st rounder. No comparison.
Why did pool jumper not get 21 starts before we gave up on him? Iglesias did not get 21 starts. Neither was a first rounder. Neither could crack the starting lineup or even get on the field for the most part. No comparison.
21 starts is far more than most players get to prove themselves. That is only because they are not good enough to crack the lineup.
We are saying that if this continues [hypothetical] then we need to look at other options. Emery is always looking at options. The problem is too many here believe there are many better options when that clearly is not the case. Because 21 games is a lot of time and most 1st round picks who look terrible for 21 games have competition or are replaced. God, Chris Williams got 6-7 games at LT before the plug was pulled on him. Williams played pretty well at LT and LG. It looked to me like the coaching staff totally screwed Williams as it has Bennett.
And we are not a rebuilding team that has time for guys to develop we are in win now mode over the next 2-3 years.
I want Carimi to be good and start at RT, but I am preparing myself for the fact that he might not based on what I have seen. |
Every player is one play away from never being on a field again. That possibility has to be uppermost in a GM's mind.
But the reality is teams will take a couple of years to develop a line especially when there are no All Pros to help guide it. Garza is filling that role fairly well it seems.
And excellent line play means they are all on the same page with adjusting on the fly and spotting breakdowns, pressures, etc. If there are any Reuben Browns that become available I would be the first to jump. But those are few and far between. |
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bearsaddict
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 3543
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:20 am Post subject: |
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If we get the kind of game we got from Carimi tonight every game, we would not be too bad at all on the right side.
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Here's to hoping Emery is NOTHING like Angelo. |
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WindyCity
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 6831
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| bearsaddict wrote: | | If we get the kind of game we got from Carimi tonight every game, we would not be too bad at all on the right side. |
The sloppy track was a big help to us in pass protection.
Carimi was very good run blocking but that is not the concern. It is the pass protection and it will be a lot different next week on a good field against Ahmad Brooks and Aldon Smith.
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IronMike84
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 5906
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: How long does Carimi get? |
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| WindyCity wrote: | | His run blocking has been solid, but his pass protection has been TERRIBLE. |
And yet lots of people wanted him to play Left Tackle...
| WindyCity wrote: | | He is the worst starter on the team right now and that should be reserved for Kellen Davis. |
Kellen Davis, the guy who was expected to be a 1000 yard receiver in the offseason. 
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| Rotoworld.com wrote: | | ...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go. |
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7060
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: How long does Carimi get? |
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| IronMike84 wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | | His run blocking has been solid, but his pass protection has been TERRIBLE. |
And yet lots of people wanted him to play Left Tackle...
| WindyCity wrote: | | He is the worst starter on the team right now and that should be reserved for Kellen Davis. |
Kellen Davis, the guy who was expected to be a 1000 yard receiver in the offseason. |
I don't know anyone who expected him to have 1000 yds but he certainly could be expected to have 500. He has been a huge disappointment though both his mistakes last night were just the result of a great hit and a bad pass. We also do not throw to him in the end zone when that was where he was helpful last year. |
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MonserinNC
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4954
Location: Back in the CHIIII
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: How long does Carimi get? |
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| IronMike84 wrote: | | WindyCity wrote: | | His run blocking has been solid, but his pass protection has been TERRIBLE. |
And yet lots of people wanted him to play Left Tackle...
| WindyCity wrote: | | He is the worst starter on the team right now and that should be reserved for Kellen Davis. |
Kellen Davis, the guy who was expected to be a 1000 yard receiver in the offseason. |
Haha, on the first part I think everyone admitted their mistake a while ago...I went around and did my "I told you so's" in another thread, I think....and even earlier in this thread a little.
The second part, I dont remember alot of love for Davis on this thread before the season, I saw someone else mention "we all loved him" in the GDT. I have been saying for a while now that Davis would be bad. That was why I actually liked the Rodriguez draft pick.
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IronMike84
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 5906
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: How long does Carimi get? |
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| MonserinNC wrote: | | The second part, I dont remember alot of love for Davis on this thread before the season, I saw someone else mention "we all loved him" in the GDT. I have been saying for a while now that Davis would be bad. That was why I actually liked the Rodriguez draft pick. |
I like Evan Rodriguez. I think he has decent potential, and I like how much he improved as a lead blocker.
What I don't understand is why the Bears ditched Tyler Clutts in favor of having Evan Rodriguez playing h-back when Rodriguez, at least up to this point, has wound up playing fullback rather than h-back.
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| Rotoworld.com wrote: | | ...internet mock drafts, which have ridiculously become the measuring stick for where players are "supposed" to go. |
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topwop1
Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 4518
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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Gabe Carimi will CA-REAM you according to Jon Gruden so for that reason I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
I can't believe how pessimistic some of you are after only a few games. Bunch of over reactors I'd say. Give him some time please.
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