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Bednarik60


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 37096
Location: Vancouver, Washington
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c0insnap wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
His built is awful for transitioning to the pros He looks barely 6 feet and 10 lbs shy of 200 lbs.... Look at R.Wilson and you see he is just solid and well built specially around the chest and upper thighs a lot like McNabb was when he first came out of Syracuse. Johnny Manziel is interesting but hes not special or does he have tools to transition to the next level but some one will take him outside of the top 60 picks.


Good analysis and this answers the poster who asks why Colt McCoy instead of Aaron Rodgers or RGIII. Other than the obvious fact that he plays like neither of them, his build is nothing like theirs either. While Rodgers isn't huge, he's got a really solid frame and is put together. This kid is thin and will get hurt.


When i saw the 60 minute piece on Aaaron Rodgers i was like shocked i said to my buddy "i thought he was like 6'4 225 and plays like he is 6'6 250" my friend was like "me to bro!" ... haha i was asking people over the next week how big they thought A Rod is and every one said "6'4 6'5!? 230!!?"... He is built and carries him self as some one who is much bigger.. Plays much bigger then he is which is a strange effect but a real one. but yeah he is solid.

RGIII is more on the thinner leaner size looks a little more like a track guy then football guy but hes sculpted to the T and twice the Athlete with twice as better throwing mechanics then Manziel ..

Johnny Manziel is lie Tim Tebow with out muscle Laughing He will show up 5'11 3/4 194 and run a 4.65 to 4.75 good vertical good three cone good shuttle and will look awkward throwing in position drills.
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 11926
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c0insnap wrote:
kenney wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
His built is awful for transitioning to the pros He looks barely 6 feet and 10 lbs shy of 200 lbs.... Look at R.Wilson and you see he is just solid and well built specially around the chest and upper thighs a lot like McNabb was when he first came out of Syracuse. Johnny Manziel is interesting but hes not special or does he have tools to transition to the next level but some one will take him outside of the top 60 picks.


Not special? He's the best player in college football and he's a freshman.


That's an opinion, not a fact. He has [inappropriate/removed] his pants against LSU, Florida and Ole Miss. Best player in his sport would rise to the occasion against the best competition, no?


No, it's actually a fact. He didn't "crap his pants" against Florida or LSU or Old Miss. Florida was his first game as a starter, a game in which the coaching staff stated they limited the offense for him. He beat Ole Miss on one of the most memorable drives for any player this season, and he played well enough to beat LSU, but his kicker missed two field goals (neither of shich was over 40 yards) and an extra point.

This isn't kindergarten. Evaluations are not opinions. Manziel is the best player in the country. He will have at least one Heisman before he goes to the NFL.
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kenney


Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bednarik60 wrote:
c0insnap wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
His built is awful for transitioning to the pros He looks barely 6 feet and 10 lbs shy of 200 lbs.... Look at R.Wilson and you see he is just solid and well built specially around the chest and upper thighs a lot like McNabb was when he first came out of Syracuse. Johnny Manziel is interesting but hes not special or does he have tools to transition to the next level but some one will take him outside of the top 60 picks.


Good analysis and this answers the poster who asks why Colt McCoy instead of Aaron Rodgers or RGIII. Other than the obvious fact that he plays like neither of them, his build is nothing like theirs either. While Rodgers isn't huge, he's got a really solid frame and is put together. This kid is thin and will get hurt.


When i saw the 60 minute piece on Aaaron Rodgers i was like shocked i said to my buddy "i thought he was like 6'4 225 and plays like he is 6'6 250" my friend was like "me to bro!" ... haha i was asking people over the next week how big they thought A Rod is and every one said "6'4 6'5!? 230!!?"... He is built and carries him self as some one who is much bigger.. Plays much bigger then he is which is a strange effect but a real one. but yeah he is solid.

RGIII is more on the thinner leaner size looks a little more like a track guy then football guy but hes sculpted to the T and twice the Athlete with twice as better throwing mechanics then Manziel ..

Johnny Manziel is lie Tim Tebow with out muscle Laughing He will show up 5'11 3/4 194 and run a 4.65 to 4.75 good vertical good three cone good shuttle and will look awkward throwing in position drills.


Now I see you clearly haven't watched him play. Carry on. I'm sorry I wasted my time trying to convince a troll.
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Kenney>Everyone else on here
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Bednarik60


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 37096
Location: Vancouver, Washington
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
His built is awful for transitioning to the pros He looks barely 6 feet and 10 lbs shy of 200 lbs.... Look at R.Wilson and you see he is just solid and well built specially around the chest and upper thighs a lot like McNabb was when he first came out of Syracuse. Johnny Manziel is interesting but hes not special or does he have tools to transition to the next level but some one will take him outside of the top 60 picks.


Not special? He's the best player in college football and he's a freshman.


Hes not the best player in college football.

Hes not special

and will never play every down or many downs in the pros if he doesnt switch positions and find another way to be effective on the football field.
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c0insnap


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
c0insnap wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
His built is awful for transitioning to the pros He looks barely 6 feet and 10 lbs shy of 200 lbs.... Look at R.Wilson and you see he is just solid and well built specially around the chest and upper thighs a lot like McNabb was when he first came out of Syracuse. Johnny Manziel is interesting but hes not special or does he have tools to transition to the next level but some one will take him outside of the top 60 picks.


Good analysis and this answers the poster who asks why Colt McCoy instead of Aaron Rodgers or RGIII. Other than the obvious fact that he plays like neither of them, his build is nothing like theirs either. While Rodgers isn't huge, he's got a really solid frame and is put together. This kid is thin and will get hurt.


He doesn't play like either of them? Are you guys even watching him?

Beautiful throwing motion that compensates for his height, great elusiveness and athleticism, accurate, and a good head for reading defenses. He's 200 pounds and has at least two more off seasons to put on some bulk and work on learning the game better.

Manziel as a freshman is a better player than Griffin was as a freshman. He's a much better passer and Griffin was just as slight with the same propensity to run in the same offense early in his career.


He's a thin kid and he's not 200 pounds. Every year I hear how Player A is going to add X amount of weight and blah blah blah. It usually doesn't happen. They were saying that about Colt McCoy throughout his career at Texas... hell, they said it when he was with the Browns. He's got narrow shoulders and skinny ankles, knees and quads. Not a big foundation to pack all that muscle without sacrificing athletic ability.

And that comparing Manziel as a freshman to Griffin as a freshman is irrelevant. Hell, Braxton Miller as a sophomore is more ahead of Griffin as a sophomore... but guess what? Miller will NEVER be an NFL quarterback. Brian Brohm was probably ahead of Griffin as a freshman. Laughing
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Bednarik60


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 37096
Location: Vancouver, Washington
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
Now I see you clearly haven't watched him play. Carry on. I'm sorry I wasted my time trying to convince a troll.


Man crush much? Very Happy
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c0insnap


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenney wrote:
c0insnap wrote:
kenney wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
His built is awful for transitioning to the pros He looks barely 6 feet and 10 lbs shy of 200 lbs.... Look at R.Wilson and you see he is just solid and well built specially around the chest and upper thighs a lot like McNabb was when he first came out of Syracuse. Johnny Manziel is interesting but hes not special or does he have tools to transition to the next level but some one will take him outside of the top 60 picks.


Not special? He's the best player in college football and he's a freshman.


That's an opinion, not a fact. He has [inappropriate/removed] his pants against LSU, Florida and Ole Miss. Best player in his sport would rise to the occasion against the best competition, no?


No, it's actually a fact. He didn't "crap his pants" against Florida or LSU or Old Miss. Florida was his first game as a starter, a game in which the coaching staff stated they limited the offense for him. He beat Ole Miss on one of the most memorable drives for any player this season, and he played well enough to beat LSU, but his kicker missed two field goals (neither of shich was over 40 yards) and an extra point.

This isn't kindergarten. Evaluations are not opinions. Manziel is the best player in the country. He will have at least one Heisman before he goes to the NFL.


Since I like dealing in facts, not extreme hyperbole or opinions:

69/112... 1 Touchdown... 5 Interceptions... 1 W, 2 Losses

In two of those games he threw for under 175 yards. So being Captain Checkdown, running around like your hair is on fire and throwing picks... Yeah, best player in the nation?
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Bednarik60


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed Texas schools and most Big 12 really fib about there players sizes and speeds. I think its a midwest south thing probably cultural.. if your 5'9 in real life at Oklahoma or Texas A&M you are 5'11 .. if your 205 your 215.. if you run a 4.5 you run a 4.34..etc... those schools are the worst man...


I remember when Crabtree was 6'4 220 running a 4.3 in college and for 3 years we argued on the forums about it ...
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c0insnap


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bednarik60 wrote:
I noticed Texas schools and most Big 12 really fib about there players sizes and speeds. I think its a midwest south thing probably cultural.. if your 5'9 in real life at Oklahoma or Texas A&M you are 5'11 .. if your 205 your 215.. if you run a 4.5 you run a 4.34..etc... those schools are the worst man...


I remember when Crabtree was 6'4 220 running a 4.3 in college and for 3 years we argued on the forums about it ...


There was this cornerback from Cal a while back... can't think of his name... but he was listed at 6'3"... came to the combine and measured in at 5'10".
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were on the best draft forum on he internet and best NFL forum on the internet what about small QBs is hard to understand in todays modern game? they never ever ever ever ever pan out ever... coming from a Eagles fan who has the most athletic QB to ever play... it doesnt pan out no matter how fast you are or crafty or whatever it doesnt work.


There has been what two most successful QB 6'1 and under in the modern league..... Brees and you could put Garcia in that category but Brees is pretty much it and his road to success is quite a story of beating the odds an probably wont happen again.

Brees is a rarity from he ability to enhance his arm strength his ability he had to rebuild his body into a muscular machine with out losing range of motion etc... his IQ and ability to retain information is rare... his connection with Sean Payton etc...
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Bednarik60


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c0insnap wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
I noticed Texas schools and most Big 12 really fib about there players sizes and speeds. I think its a midwest south thing probably cultural.. if your 5'9 in real life at Oklahoma or Texas A&M you are 5'11 .. if your 205 your 215.. if you run a 4.5 you run a 4.34..etc... those schools are the worst man...


I remember when Crabtree was 6'4 220 running a 4.3 in college and for 3 years we argued on the forums about it ...


There was this cornerback from Cal a while back... can't think of his name... but he was listed at 6'3"... came to the combine and measured in at 5'10".


welll so many schools do it time to time just some are just worst then others.


Oregon had LaMichael James at 5'10... Laughing which i think they were doing to protect his draft stock actually. I think that was why Texas Tech had done this with Crabtree. Which makes sense.
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alfalcone


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's somewhere between Jake Plummer and Michael Vick, he'ss got a better arm than McCoy and is much faster than Tebow. I'd guess he comes in somewhere between 5'11-6'1 and runs a 4.4. He's accurate on the run, and he makes plays.
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly haven't seen much of him, but from I have seen, his game doesn't seem like one that will translate to the NFL.

His arm is surprisingly live but I'm not too impressed with him as a passer from what I've seen. He is going to have to start making real reads and not just making a living off of broken plays.

He is a very good runner, but college football isn't the NFL when it comes to how running QBs are treated. As we've seen, you don't want to expose yourself too much in the NFL as a QB. Manziel also seems to expose that ball a whole lot when he's scrambling.

He might have some early success (as most running QBs do) but I don't see him having a sustainable career as a starter in the NFL unless he evolves his game.

From what I've seen, he can definitely be a capable backup.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Vick Laughing

Johnny couldn't even hang with Tommie Frazier who was truly a beast in college...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kOuQB_7_CY
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The Cryptkeeper


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest problem I have is that he's so good doing what he does, that he may not develop the skills he needs to in order to become an NFL starter. He needs to mature as a leader, improve his pure passing skills and reads, and put a little more weight on to improve his durability. Those things could happen over the next 2-3 years, but success can harbor keeping bad habits around longer than they should.

But to the people saying the kid isn't a special talent, that's just insane. His raw talent is exceptional. He's got the arm, athleticism, and natural feel for the game to be an NFL starter. There are improvements he has to make, but it's way too early to write him off.
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