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Adrian Peterson - Are we wasting his best years?
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thestonedkoala


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 4046
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Costello wrote:

I do kinda feel bad tho, he's starting to remind me of Barry Sanders. It's great to have an NFL icon and future HOF on your team. But I'll take winning any day of the week over that.


Exactly. You can't compare Peterson with Mariano. You don't build around running backs. You build around QBs.

As for Walter Payton; different era, different type of player.

Trading Peterson ultimately isn't going to hurt the rebuilding process and might make it faster. We can replace a running back quicker than replacing a quarterback. But for some team, Peterson might be the missing piece.
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LostRoadStone


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peterson? No. Allen? Yes.

Very few players can actually take over a game, and Peterson is that kind of player. After the injury Peterson had, no one expected him to have this type of season, and that tells me that he's not going to be another running back who simply falls apart when he reaches 30. Peterson is not just an elite player in the league now, he's one of the greatest at his position of all time. You simply can't replace that. Add on his contract, there is simply no way that the Vikings could obtain enough compensation to outweigh the value that he brings to the team. Peterson isn't the type of player you use as a chip in the rebuilding process, he's the type of player that carries the weight until the rebuilding has a solid foundation. Not to mention that his contract makes it all but impossible to get anything substantial from another team.

Allen on the other hand is the type of player that you use as a bargaining chip to help move along the rebuilding process. Despite Allen's outstanding sack numbers, he doesn't do anything to make the defense better. In his greatest season the defense still couldn't stop opposing offenses, and that has continued this year. Allen is the type of player who is the piece that puts an already solid defense over the edge. With his age, vocal stance on the whole rebuilding idea, and his contract situation, Allen is a prime candidate to trade, and get something good in return.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LostRoadStone wrote:
Allen on the other hand is the type of player that you use as a bargaining chip to help move along the rebuilding process. Despite Allen's outstanding sack numbers, he doesn't do anything to make the defense better. In his greatest season the defense still couldn't stop opposing offenses, and that has continued this year. Allen is the type of player who is the piece that puts an already solid defense over the edge. With his age, vocal stance on the whole rebuilding idea, and his contract situation, Allen is a prime candidate to trade, and get something good in return.


You don't think the defense is any worse without him?

I can kind of see where you are going with this. Everyone knows Jared Allen is top 3 at his position. He's just outstanding, and is a true thrill to watch.

But if we lose him? Its tough, but I don't think we'd be doomed. We still have Brian Robison, still have Kevin Williams and still have Everson Griffen. Everson takes over at RE, and while he may not get JA numbers, he's still a productive player for us. Maybe by losing Allen, we can put the other pieces together (mainly, a great MLB, OLB, and draft another DE)

You look back before Jared Allen came here. Back in 2007, our defense was nothing special. Our Defensive Ends were who? Ray Edwards and Kenechi Udeze? Nothing to write home about. We still finished the season 8-8. Since then, after the Jared Allen trade, our defense had something to it. He brought swagger to the position, and he embarrased other QBs. He did help us to 10-6 record, and up until now he's been just awesome for us.

But yet, none of those years did I ever think our defense became elite. We had an elite player, but that was it. There was only so much he could/can do.

so keeping an open mind on a senstive subject, I don't think our defense would go to hell without Allen, however I can't say we'd be better off without him.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really dont understand this opinion?

Are the Lions wasting Calvin Johnson?

Are the 49ers wasting Patrick Willis?

What about the Cowboys, are they wasting DeMarcus Ware?

Or the Texans, did they waste Andre Johnson?

At the end of the day, these teams have as many recent super bowl wins as the Vikings.

Seriously, there are so many NFL legends who come through the NFL that never win a ring.

Peterson was part of a team that almost got to the superbowl, perhaps if he didnt have have costly fumbles, MN could have won.
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LostRoadStone


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
I really dont understand this opinion?

Are the Lions wasting Calvin Johnson?

Are the 49ers wasting Patrick Willis?

What about the Cowboys, are they wasting DeMarcus Ware?

Or the Texans, did they waste Andre Johnson?

At the end of the day, these teams have as many recent super bowl wins as the Vikings.

Seriously, there are so many NFL legends who come through the NFL that never win a ring.

Peterson was part of a team that almost got to the superbowl, perhaps if he didnt have have costly fumbles, MN could have won.

The point is valid because the NFL is no longer a run based league. It's all about passing and defense. Peterson, while a great player, isn't going to carry an offense to the Super Bowl without great play from his quarterback. The argument that you could trade Peterson and use the compensation you receiver to obtain that franchise quarterback, or build a dominating defense is a sound argument. It's just highly unlikely that you receive the type of compensation needed.

And the players you mention aren't running backs, their positions are much more valuable in todays NFL. Not to mention, every one of those players is on a contending team, whether it's playoff contending or Super Bowl contending. How is a player being wasted when he's in playoff/Super Bowl contention?


The opinion I have yet to understand, and I've seen it mentioned in this thread more than once, is what does 2009 have to do with the team now?
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LostRoadStone wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
I really dont understand this opinion?

Are the Lions wasting Calvin Johnson?

Are the 49ers wasting Patrick Willis?

What about the Cowboys, are they wasting DeMarcus Ware?

Or the Texans, did they waste Andre Johnson?

At the end of the day, these teams have as many recent super bowl wins as the Vikings.

Seriously, there are so many NFL legends who come through the NFL that never win a ring.

Peterson was part of a team that almost got to the superbowl, perhaps if he didnt have have costly fumbles, MN could have won.

The point is valid because the NFL is no longer a run based league. It's all about passing and defense. Peterson, while a great player, isn't going to carry an offense to the Super Bowl without great play from his quarterback. The argument that you could trade Peterson and use the compensation you receiver to obtain that franchise quarterback, or build a dominating defense is a sound argument. It's just highly unlikely that you receive the type of compensation needed.

And the players you mention aren't running backs, their positions are much more valuable in todays NFL. Not to mention, every one of those players is on a contending team, whether it's playoff contending or Super Bowl contending. How is a player being wasted when he's in playoff/Super Bowl contention?


The opinion I have yet to understand, and I've seen it mentioned in this thread more than once, is what does 2009 have to do with the team now?


The Vikes are just as much of a contender at this point as the Cowboys and Lions.

Point is, sure a RB may not have as much value but how is the team wasting Peterson. If he doesnt have much value because he is a RB,why does he have more value for those contending teams, who likely dont have a RB of Peterson's status? Point is, contending teams dont need RBs like Peterson, therefore, what exactly is being wasted?
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thestonedkoala


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
I really dont understand this opinion?

Are the Lions wasting Calvin Johnson?


No, wide receivers usually have a much, much longer window to play if they are elite. Plus the Lions are actually on the upswing. They have some bumps but they are an up and coming.

Quote:

Are the 49ers wasting Patrick Willis?


They are at least now competing and built that defense around Willis. Again linebackers tend to stick around for a while.

Quote:

What about the Cowboys, are they wasting DeMarcus Ware?


Cowboys competed for a while, Ware is a linebacker. You could make the case in a few years.

Quote:

Or the Texans, did they waste Andre Johnson?


Texans are now contenders because they built the defense around Johnson and got him a quarterback. Wide receivers last longer.

Quote:

At the end of the day, these teams have as many recent super bowl wins as the Vikings.


The only team that I can say that is having as tough of a time is the Cowboys.

Quote:

The Vikes are just as much of a contender at this point as the Cowboys and Lions.


Cowboys yes. Lions no.

Quote:

Point is, sure a RB may not have as much value but how is the team wasting Peterson. If he doesnt have much value because he is a RB,why does he have more value for those contending teams, who likely dont have a RB of Peterson's status? Point is, contending teams dont need RBs like Peterson, therefore, what exactly is being wasted?


We're wasting Peterson's career away. We are at least a QB, two LBs, possible a guard, two defensive tackles and probably two WR and a DE away from a rebuild. This isn't going to take a while. Running backs have remarkably short lives. Peterson might get a few more years because of who he is but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a slight drop or even a significant drop in production around his 7-8th year.
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VikeADunn


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thestonedkoala wrote:

We're wasting Peterson's career away



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thestonedkoala


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VikeADunn wrote:
thestonedkoala wrote:

We're wasting Peterson's career away




Individual accomplishments are great but football is a team sport.
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Vikefan79


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peterson signed a contract because he wanted to play in Minnesota. If we don't win a championship I won't feel sorry for him. He's being compensated greatly whether we win or lose.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LostRoadStone wrote:


The opinion I have yet to understand, and I've seen it mentioned in this thread more than once, is what does 2009 have to do with the team now?


My point was: it's no good saying that Adrian Peterson never got his chance to play in a Super Bowl, as the Vikings did get to the NFC Championship game in 2009, where Peterson had a key lost fumble near the Goal Line.
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Gordon Bombay


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion is that this team has a lot of missing pieces. So, if it wasn't Peterson stuck playing with a bunch of bad teammates, it would be some other guy that was the face of our franchise playing with bad teammates. I would rather have someone entertaining and incredibly professional like Peterson to hopefully change the culture of the franchise for the future years when there aren't so many missing pieces. His influence on the young guys and players on the team is so valuable.
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Vikes_Bolts1228


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't this a pointless argument?

What if the Vikings were "wasting Adrian?" What are the Vikings suppose to do? Trade him now to a contender because they feel bad that AD didn't win a super bowl?

If yes, that means if a team isn't going to win a superbowl in the 3-5 solid years a player has left, they should trade said player to a contender? OK that sounds fair. Now the NFL turns into the NBA where the same 5-6 teams in the entire league actually have a chance to win the NBA title year after year because all the top stars only want to go to those select teams.

Hundreds and hundreds of upper-echelon players in all sports haven't won a title. Only one team can win the championship each year. It's reality. That's why sports is competition. Titles just aren't handed out.

Also, even if the NFL is a passing league, it DOESN'T hurt to have a running back like Adrian Peterson to help out a young QB or young WRs. There is ZERO reason to trade him.

However, if Adrian is reduced to a role like Ladainian was with the Jets....a back up at best, then we can talk about giving him his 1 last shot at a title if the Vikings aren't in contention.

Oh yea...I never got to be a millionaire and live in a sea-side mansion. My parents should have put me up for adoption to a rich couple when I turned 16 to live out my final years as a non-adult!!!
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikes_Bolts1228 wrote:
Isn't this a pointless argument?

yes. just another excuse to complain and dump on the team.

Peterson isn't complaining, he's not saying his career is being wasted, or demanding to be traded, or even criticizing the coaches or front office.

but hey, what does he know about the subject?
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thestonedkoala wrote:
As for Walter Payton; different era, different type of player.


Not really. While Adrian is certainly significantly faster, they are similar more than they are different, in both personality and running with the ball.

Anyway, to the main point, I stick with my original statement, even asking the question of whether they are wasting him is ridiculous. Is your boss wasting your prime by not promoting you yet? Is he/she wasting your prime by hiring crappy co-workers?
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