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Things I Think I Know Part II
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Things I Think I Know Part II Reply with quote

I liked the first segment of this last week, and I liked the discussion here is part 2:

1. As fans our expectations are to high and to low, and that is all due to the inconsistencies of the past decade. We are trained to expect the worst, we are trained to hope for the high draft pick, we are trained not to be the best. Now that we have a solid football team, we assume that they aren't as good as they are and that if a player has a bad game or a bad play that they are part of the problem. Case study of the two main victims of this:

Sean Smith- Sean Smith is having his best season to date. He is shadowing every single teams number 1 WR basically all season and has done an admirable job for the most part. He has had some dominant performances, and he has had really only one or two bad games. Smith has yet to allow a catch on a deep ball (over 20 yards all season) and spends a lot of time on an island against WR like AJ Green, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and Larry Fitzgerald. Smith has 2 INT through 8 games this season, which is tied for his career high. Smith has 11 pass deflections which also is below his career high...in half a season. The guy is having a GOOD season. He is one more jump in his game from being an elite player. In a passing league it is VERY difficult to be an elite corner, in fact in todays league there is only 1 true shutdown corner. If he is not resigned or franchised he will more than likely turn into a star for his next team.

Jake Long- Merc posted a stat that Jake Long has allowed 3 sacks this season. Ryan Tannehill has attempted 241 passes this season, and if you do the math Long allows a sack on 1.2% of Tannehill's drop backs. That's pretty damn good. I'm not saying Long is having an exceptional year, because he isn't. Fact of the matter is if you look around the league he is much better than the majority of left tackles. If he finishes the season strong, say only allowing 4 or 5 sacks for the season he has a strong case for a contract extension. In an offense that has attempted the most deep throws of any team in the league (correct me if I'm wrong), and that attempts a lot of passes (Tannehill is top 5 in the league in attempts per game.) more QB hits are to be expected. Again I expect better from Long, and throw the injury out the window and he is still a solid NFL OT, and could potentially have a solid season if he finishes strong.

The point? Fans the sky is no longer falling. Sparano is gone, the ship appears to be sailing to calmer waters, with a much more stable crew. Our captain who was once deemed incompetent doesn't look so bad. The Dolphins are a young team that is in a playoff race, watch them grow, enjoy their growth and at the same time enjoy their failures. These players will never grow if they don't fail.

2. Is Olivier Vernon's future really at DE? Lately when I have been watching Vernon I have grown to respect his versatility and his explosive athleticism. He looks to me like a solid DE, but could his future be at OLB? When the Dolphins go to a spy defense, Vernon is the player subbed in to play in a prowling linebacker position. Vernon has excellent athleticism and spends a lot of time moving around the defense almost as a JACK linebacker. If the Dolphins draft a pass rusher and resign Randy Starks, don't be surprised if next camp Vernon is working at LB at least half the time.

3. Reshad Jones finds the ball. He looks to be one of those unique "right place right time players." Jones made a diving deflection on a play that he was out of position on to halt Luck on a crucial late 3rd down. Jones blew up a Ballard run in the backfield and happen to swing his arm and knock the ball loose. Jones to me seems like he has a knack for being in the best possible position most of the time. The only exception I can think of is the Wayne touchdown from last week. As was broken down by Eric Mangini the Dolphins were in a double coverage defense, and Jones jumped an underneath route, rather than giving Smith the underneath help he was supposed to give on Wayne. Clemons did his job on the opposite side.

4. This defense needs to add an elite athlete in the back end. I'm really not sure who the fastest player on the defense is. Clemons? He has good speed, but there is no elite speed on the defense, and against a team with WR like the Colts for example, that will cause problems. Smith just simply isn't fast enough to run with Hilton or Avery deep, I question why he wasn't asked to press the, but I digress.

5. Guard play is what is holding the entire offense back. Besides Pouncey, noone on the interior is getting a consistent push on their zone. Incognito has had 1 game where he got a push, and that was against the Jets he flat out dominated the line of scrimmage. Jerry is a solid band aide, but leaves a lot to be desired. Until Miami gets 2 solid guards the offense is going to be held back. Tackle play is different because quick drops and passes can outscheme a pass rushing end. Quick drops don't work when blocking inside. The run game and the pass game are suffering due to a lack of an interior presence that can move. In GB they have perhaps the best guard combo in the league in Sitton and Lang.

As in the past, add your own.
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fasel1515


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Sean Smith is not even close to elite. He is ok. He is basically average. The fact he hasn't been beaten over 20 yards is not on him. I have seen him get absolutely torched deep time and time again just to see the opposing QB overthrow or the WR drop the ball. He has been incredibly lucky this year. He does not shut down anyone. He doesn't match-up with the opposing #1 the entire game either like you said. He is not a good tackler and is still soft. He is better in man coverage then zone though. This is all not even factoring in the fact he has 0 playmaking abilities. He has stone hands and really struggles getting his head around to locate the ball. All that adds up to average corner to me.


2) Reshad Jones has really impressed me and is clearly the best player in the Miami Dolphin secondary.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fasel1515 wrote:
1) Sean Smith is not even close to elite. He is ok. He is basically average. The fact he hasn't been beaten over 20 yards is not on him. I have seen him get absolutely torched deep time and time again just to see the opposing QB overthrow or the WR drop the ball. He has been incredibly lucky this year. He does not shut down anyone. He doesn't match-up with the opposing #1 the entire game either like you said. He is not a good tackler and is still soft. He is better in man coverage then zone though. This is all not even factoring in the fact he has 0 playmaking abilities. He has stone hands and really struggles getting his head around to locate the ball. All that adds up to average corner to me.

A few things about Sean Smith=

He has taken more snaps than any CB in the league.

Opposing QB's throwing to the WR where Sean Smith has the primary coverage have a 76.9 QB rating.

Sean Smith has missed no tackles in run support this year. He is currently 11th in the entire league in total tackles, and he missed only 1 tackle when attempting to tackle a WR on pass plays. The idea that Sean Smith cannot tackle is no longer applicable.

Smith already has more INT's in half a season than he had in any year previously in his career. He is, in other words, making strides in his greatest area of weakness, his hands.

Sean Smith is, without question, above average right now. Is he elite? No. He's not.

What he is doing is responding to better coaching. I believe he can get better, but people are spending an inordinate amount of time breaking down Smith, when there are clearly bigger problems on our team and in our secondary.


To me, this is the equivalent of talking about the steering wheel of a car, when the tire is flat. It makes no sense. Smith is part of the solution in Miami, not the problem.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Things I Think I Know Part II Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
I liked the first segment of this last week, and I liked the discussion here is part 2:

1. As fans our expectations are to high and to low, and that is all due to the inconsistencies of the past decade. We are trained to expect the worst, we are trained to hope for the high draft pick, we are trained not to be the best. Now that we have a solid football team, we assume that they aren't as good as they are and that if a player has a bad game or a bad play that they are part of the problem. Case study of the two main victims of this:

Sean Smith- Sean Smith is having his best season to date. He is shadowing every single teams number 1 WR basically all season and has done an admirable job for the most part. He has had some dominant performances, and he has had really only one or two bad games. Smith has yet to allow a catch on a deep ball (over 20 yards all season) and spends a lot of time on an island against WR like AJ Green, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and Larry Fitzgerald. Smith has 2 INT through 8 games this season, which is tied for his career high. Smith has 11 pass deflections which also is below his career high...in half a season. The guy is having a GOOD season. He is one more jump in his game from being an elite player. In a passing league it is VERY difficult to be an elite corner, in fact in todays league there is only 1 true shutdown corner. If he is not resigned or franchised he will more than likely turn into a star for his next team.

Jake Long- Merc posted a stat that Jake Long has allowed 3 sacks this season. Ryan Tannehill has attempted 241 passes this season, and if you do the math Long allows a sack on 1.2% of Tannehill's drop backs. That's pretty damn good. I'm not saying Long is having an exceptional year, because he isn't. Fact of the matter is if you look around the league he is much better than the majority of left tackles. If he finishes the season strong, say only allowing 4 or 5 sacks for the season he has a strong case for a contract extension. In an offense that has attempted the most deep throws of any team in the league (correct me if I'm wrong), and that attempts a lot of passes (Tannehill is top 5 in the league in attempts per game.) more QB hits are to be expected. Again I expect better from Long, and throw the injury out the window and he is still a solid NFL OT, and could potentially have a solid season if he finishes strong.

The point? Fans the sky is no longer falling. Sparano is gone, the ship appears to be sailing to calmer waters, with a much more stable crew. Our captain who was once deemed incompetent doesn't look so bad. The Dolphins are a young team that is in a playoff race, watch them grow, enjoy their growth and at the same time enjoy their failures. These players will never grow if they don't fail.

2. Is Olivier Vernon's future really at DE? Lately when I have been watching Vernon I have grown to respect his versatility and his explosive athleticism. He looks to me like a solid DE, but could his future be at OLB? When the Dolphins go to a spy defense, Vernon is the player subbed in to play in a prowling linebacker position. Vernon has excellent athleticism and spends a lot of time moving around the defense almost as a JACK linebacker. If the Dolphins draft a pass rusher and resign Randy Starks, don't be surprised if next camp Vernon is working at LB at least half the time.

3. Reshad Jones finds the ball. He looks to be one of those unique "right place right time players." Jones made a diving deflection on a play that he was out of position on to halt Luck on a crucial late 3rd down. Jones blew up a Ballard run in the backfield and happen to swing his arm and knock the ball loose. Jones to me seems like he has a knack for being in the best possible position most of the time. The only exception I can think of is the Wayne touchdown from last week. As was broken down by Eric Mangini the Dolphins were in a double coverage defense, and Jones jumped an underneath route, rather than giving Smith the underneath help he was supposed to give on Wayne. Clemons did his job on the opposite side.

4. This defense needs to add an elite athlete in the back end. I'm really not sure who the fastest player on the defense is. Clemons? He has good speed, but there is no elite speed on the defense, and against a team with WR like the Colts for example, that will cause problems. Smith just simply isn't fast enough to run with Hilton or Avery deep, I question why he wasn't asked to press the, but I digress.

5. Guard play is what is holding the entire offense back. Besides Pouncey, noone on the interior is getting a consistent push on their zone. Incognito has had 1 game where he got a push, and that was against the Jets he flat out dominated the line of scrimmage. Jerry is a solid band aide, but leaves a lot to be desired. Until Miami gets 2 solid guards the offense is going to be held back. Tackle play is different because quick drops and passes can outscheme a pass rushing end. Quick drops don't work when blocking inside. The run game and the pass game are suffering due to a lack of an interior presence that can move. In GB they have perhaps the best guard combo in the league in Sitton and Lang.

As in the past, add your own.
Excellent write up and i could not agree more with everything you said. The whole vernon at LB is a really interesting thought and could make alot of sense. Im sick to death of the Sean Smith debate every corner in this league gives up catches and Td's. Rashad jones is become a pro bowl type player infront of our eyes,give him Matt elam to team with and i will do cartwheels. My number one free agent is G andy levetri from buffalo regarded as profootballfocus premier pass blocking LG in the nfl last year he could help long out if richie is truly the problem at lg.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding Sean smiths hands and playmaking its something that can change i say this because Carlos rogers dropped more interceptions with the redskins then any corner in the NFL went to SF and led the league in picks. Atleast he is there to get his hands on the ball and yes he needs to make the play but he is still productive
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WaterBear56


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Jake Long is an above average offensive tackle. He is not playing like an elite offensive tackle. The fact that we want to get rid of an above average left tackle because he is not a top 5 player is not far from what a psychiatrist would call lunacy.

2. Mike Poucney and Cameron Wake deserve to be All-pro. Can you believe that NFL network still believes Maurkice is the better Pouncey? What a laugh.

3. Reggie Bush is not nearly as elite as a lot of you make him out to be. He had a nice end last season and had one great game this season but that's it. So far, he has been a solid contributor but paying him 5 to 6 million for his production with Miller/Thomas on the team making almost nothing is also lunacy. Though I'm predicting a big game vs Tenn for him.

4. Karlos Dansby is for once playing worthy of his contract while Kevin Burnett is playing like a top OLB and Koa Misi has finally found a role on this team. Our combined linebacker unit is one of the top ones in the league. All of them will be back next season which is a nice carry-through.

5. Ryan Tannehill is a franchise QB, no questions asked. The guy looks like a leader on the field and quietly had himself a great game at Indy with our line having the worst showing of the season. I'd like to see him run a little more, the guy was a wide receiver.
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ProudDolphan47


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WaterBear56 wrote:
1. Jake Long is an above average offensive tackle. He is not playing like an elite offensive tackle. The fact that we want to get rid of an above average left tackle because he is not a top 5 player is not far from what a psychiatrist would call lunacy.

2. Mike Poucney and Cameron Wake deserve to be All-pro. Can you believe that NFL network still believes Maurkice is the better Pouncey? What a laugh.

3. Reggie Bush is not nearly as elite as a lot of you make him out to be. He had a nice end last season and had one great game this season but that's it. So far, he has been a solid contributor but paying him 5 to 6 million for his production with Miller/Thomas on the team making almost nothing is also lunacy. Though I'm predicting a big game vs Tenn for him.

4. Karlos Dansby is for once playing worthy of his contract while Kevin Burnett is playing like a top OLB and Koa Misi has finally found a role on this team. Our combined linebacker unit is one of the top ones in the league. All of them will be back next season which is a nice carry-through.

5. Ryan Tannehill is a franchise QB, no questions asked. The guy looks like a leader on the field and quietly had himself a great game at Indy with our line having the worst showing of the season. I'd like to see him run a little more, the guy was a wide receiver.


1. No, we want to get rid of him because he's being PAID like an elite offensive tackle and that money would be much better spent on players elsewhere.

2. Yes.

3. Disagree but not going to get up in arms over that.

4 and 5. Yes.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
fasel1515 wrote:
1) Sean Smith is not even close to elite. He is ok. He is basically average. The fact he hasn't been beaten over 20 yards is not on him. I have seen him get absolutely torched deep time and time again just to see the opposing QB overthrow or the WR drop the ball. He has been incredibly lucky this year. He does not shut down anyone. He doesn't match-up with the opposing #1 the entire game either like you said. He is not a good tackler and is still soft. He is better in man coverage then zone though. This is all not even factoring in the fact he has 0 playmaking abilities. He has stone hands and really struggles getting his head around to locate the ball. All that adds up to average corner to me.

A few things about Sean Smith=

He has taken more snaps than any CB in the league.

Opposing QB's throwing to the WR where Sean Smith has the primary coverage have a 76.9 QB rating.

Sean Smith has missed no tackles in run support this year. He is currently 11th in the entire league in total tackles, and he missed only 1 tackle when attempting to tackle a WR on pass plays. The idea that Sean Smith cannot tackle is no longer applicable.

Smith already has more INT's in half a season than he had in any year previously in his career. He is, in other words, making strides in his greatest area of weakness, his hands.

Sean Smith is, without question, above average right now. Is he elite? No. He's not.

What he is doing is responding to better coaching. I believe he can get better, but people are spending an inordinate amount of time breaking down Smith, when there are clearly bigger problems on our team and in our secondary.


To me, this is the equivalent of talking about the steering wheel of a car, when the tire is flat. It makes no sense. Smith is part of the solution in Miami, not the problem.


He's certainly part of the solution as a solid player but each of those stats I believe paints a picture of someone we don't have.


You said before that it's strange we have topics about guys like Sean Smith and Jake Long but you're wondering why we don't rail against RI and JJ...well, we do actually.

I don't need to create a threat about John Jerry, do I? I mean, maybe I do. I'd rather talk about the guys who this team is connected to in the long-term however. I'd rather discuss guys who are potentially going to make too much money for what they actually give us.

No one disputes Incognito or Jerry. We all want something better on the table at those positions. There's nothing to discuss there beyond which FA or which draft pick we want our team to select.

We discuss guys like Long and Smith because they matter and we DO in fact care about them. Don't take what I'm saying as a crucifixion of this guy. I like him. I'm just relaying to you what I see as a half-way intelligent fan watching each and every snap.



What it is starting to look like however is that you're confident that with this wealth of misleading stats you've uncovered, you can quickly change the subject and get away from the topic of Sean Smith even though I think the board has a few different opinions on his play.

And why is that? Is there a reason people can't discuss Sean Smith? Maybe you really like the guy and don't want to hear criticism. That would be fine. I'd just prefer you say it.

Maybe you don't care. Maybe like me, you realize there's good and bad and you just want to talk about something else. So what is it that we haven't discussed?
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to be a smartass, but either your reading skills are poor or you desperately want to paint me as something I'm not, phimmun. I've stood exactly where I always stood on Sean Smith. I have been remarkably consistent. There are well over 3 years of posts I've made about him you can dig through. I am confident my position is the same. He isn't as bad as many make him out to be and he isn't as good as some other make him out to be. I have no horse in the race, I just grow tired of people blaming him for losses, or crowning him as elite. Its much like Ted Ginn, how many threads can we have about the same guy, and how long can we continue to develop false narratives about him.

As for my "wealth of misleading facts" I'd love to know whats misleading about them? Are they misleading because they don't fit your false narrative? That's certainly what it sounds like to me. My narrative has been EXACTLY the same on him for many years. You have a record of posts if you'd like to challenge that. I only defend when people are blasting him, and I try and tell others that he is not elite...yet. I am consistent, because that is what I have seen of his play.


As for John Jerry and Richie Incognito, Yes, I think Incognito may need to go. But you may need to start a John Jerry thread, because not everyone thinks he needs to go. Namely, me. I happen to believe it would be WAAAY to for a changing of the guard (pardon the pun). He is still very much adjusting to the pro game and while he may not work out, I am seeing steady improvement and I see a guy with all the right skills to be a stud. His waterloo may be his ability to pull. Put he has NFL talent and could be very, very good.

The Dolphins organization has pulled bait too early on players before, even recently. I see this as another possibility when it comes to Jerry because of the same reason we've pulled bait on others. They no longer fit the system. This constant change of "systems" is creating more holes than a nevada whorehouse. Its exhausting and annoying. It never allows us as a team to catch up. Jerry could well become a casualty of the system change and I'll bet anyone a buck that he goes on to start for someone else, and excel.
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The people who hate on Sean Smith to me seem to be grasping at something that isn't there.

"He doesn't shut people down." Wait, weren't we praising him the whole first 4 weeks for excellent play? ESPECIALLY against Larry Fitzgerald and A.J. Green who are top 5 receivers. Which CB on the Dolphins had two interceptions while covering Larry Fitzgerald? Which CB on the Dolphins covered both players nearly every play and allowed a combined 1 touchdown on a perfectly thrown pass and catch by one of the leagues top QB/WR tandems...no shame in that.

"He doesn't shadow number 1 receivers." Watch the games, read first hand accounts of reporters, watch game film, and try again.

Sean Smith is not soft. Is he Antoine Winfield? No. But if you look at the top 15 CB in the league (a conversation Smith belongs in) who is better at playing their man off the line and playing PHYSICALLY in a jam? Richard Sherman is about the only guy I can come up with.

fasel, I hate calling you out but there wasn't a whole lot of truth in that post.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops, double post.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to my wife the only thing I know is that I want a sandwich after sex.
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fasel1515


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
The people who hate on Sean Smith to me seem to be grasping at something that isn't there.

"He doesn't shut people down." Wait, weren't we praising him the whole first 4 weeks for excellent play? ESPECIALLY against Larry Fitzgerald and A.J. Green who are top 5 receivers. Which CB on the Dolphins had two interceptions while covering Larry Fitzgerald? Which CB on the Dolphins covered both players nearly every play and allowed a combined 1 touchdown on a perfectly thrown pass and catch by one of the leagues top QB/WR tandems...no shame in that.

"He doesn't shadow number 1 receivers." Watch the games, read first hand accounts of reporters, watch game film, and try again.

Sean Smith is not soft. Is he Antoine Winfield? No. But if you look at the top 15 CB in the league (a conversation Smith belongs in) who is better at playing their man off the line and playing PHYSICALLY in a jam? Richard Sherman is about the only guy I can come up with.

fasel, I hate calling you out but there wasn't a whole lot of truth in that post.


I'm not hating on him. Is he a solid option at CB? Yes. Is he "one step from elite"? No.

He does not shut people down. What do you qualify as shutting someone down? I would say shutting people down you need to have 2 out of the following 3 >50 yards, 0 TD's, and less then 3 catches. That is not really a set number but more of a semi-qualifier.

You provided 2 examples in the Cardinals and Bengals games. Fitzgerald had 8 catches for 64 yards and a Td. Green had 9 receptions for 65 yards and a TD. Do you really call that shutting down?

Your counter-argument to this could be but ooo Sean Smith wasn't on them for the entire game thus it is not his fault. I.E. Fitz TD slant against Carroll. And I would concede this, but that ruins the fact that you say that he shadows the opposing #1 the entire game. Not to mention the fact Smith got smoked for the tying TD going up against Andre Roberts in that game.

Again we are having trouble agreeing on what these arbitrary terms mean. In my opinion he does not shadow #1 WR's because he is not matched up against them everywhere they go. I'm not asking him to be left on an island against the #1 just that if you say he shadows them then they damn well should be his assignment when they are both in the game.

You point out that he had 2 INT against Fitz. Well, those are his only 2 interceptions all year and he has a multitude of opportunities to have had more. 30 other CB's have had 2 INT this year so while it is a personal improvement for Smith it is not really that impressive.

I would say he is slightly above average. Certainly not elite. He is a lot better in man coverage as you pointed out and has improved his tackling. He is still not exceptional in that regard though. He has definitely been worth the 2nd round pick but is he going to be worth the huge contract he is going to want next year? Doubtful.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Not to be a smartass, but either your reading skills are poor or you desperately want to paint me as something I'm not, phimmun. I've stood exactly where I always stood on Sean Smith. I have been remarkably consistent. There are well over 3 years of posts I've made about him you can dig through. I am confident my position is the same. He isn't as bad as many make him out to be and he isn't as good as some other make him out to be. I have no horse in the race, I just grow tired of people blaming him for losses, or crowning him as elite. Its much like Ted Ginn, how many threads can we have about the same guy, and how long can we continue to develop false narratives about him.

As for my "wealth of misleading facts" I'd love to know whats misleading about them? Are they misleading because they don't fit your false narrative? That's certainly what it sounds like to me. My narrative has been EXACTLY the same on him for many years. You have a record of posts if you'd like to challenge that. I only defend when people are blasting him, and I try and tell others that he is not elite...yet. I am consistent, because that is what I have seen of his play.


As for John Jerry and Richie Incognito, Yes, I think Incognito may need to go. But you may need to start a John Jerry thread, because not everyone thinks he needs to go. Namely, me. I happen to believe it would be WAAAY to for a changing of the guard (pardon the pun). He is still very much adjusting to the pro game and while he may not work out, I am seeing steady improvement and I see a guy with all the right skills to be a stud. His waterloo may be his ability to pull. Put he has NFL talent and could be very, very good.

The Dolphins organization has pulled bait too early on players before, even recently. I see this as another possibility when it comes to Jerry because of the same reason we've pulled bait on others. They no longer fit the system. This constant change of "systems" is creating more holes than a nevada whorehouse. Its exhausting and annoying. It never allows us as a team to catch up. Jerry could well become a casualty of the system change and I'll bet anyone a buck that he goes on to start for someone else, and excel.


I just wish you wouldn't act like I am so down on him because I actually express what I think. I would welcome you to actually express what you think about any player. Have a conversation about these guys and stop complaining about me expressing my views.

I'd rather hear what you think than have you come in here copying and pasting from another website some cute fact you just read. I might be wrong statistically but I doubt many careful watchers disagree with me. You just posted in the other thread that "Sean Smith isn't a shutdown corner but I've seen him shut down some of the league's best this year."

That's a flat out lie. Sean Smith hasn't shut down anyone this year. Who are you talking about? In what game has he shut anyone out? Is it that he only gave up 70 yards and a TD to AJ Green? Are you talking about Arizona? The game where our pass rush kept us alive until Sean Smith gave up the final Arizona TD? If you think he was great against Oakland or NY, then I'm disappointed to inform you there aren't many of those passing attacks in the Play-Offs.

I agree he is having an interesting year but that is because Vontae Davis is gone and he's being forced into playing the "star" CB role. We're seeing different match-ups and we're seeing him try and take the next step I'll agree. It's exciting to see him have some success against true #1 WRs but his play hasn't been strong enough in many situations this year and it's one of a few reasons why we've come up a hair shy of winning some close games against the Jets, Cardinals and Colts. I'm more than willing to allow him to have some time to adjust to this different role though where he's the guy and not just a guy.

With the TDs he's allowed and the times multiple times each week when I've thought he got beat (often by an average WR) I wouldn't agree with these people who think he's way beyond where he was. That was hype that Hard Knocks sold before the season arrived. That was largely based on him competing in camp against horrible, horrible WRs and looking good because of it. I don't think you're acknowledging how much hype there is regarding Sean Smith nor how it got it's start.

Has he had some decent games? Sure. He played just well enough in Cincinnati for us to win but he got beat several times and if I'm not mistaken allowed a score. He's had good days against the NYJ and Oakland Raiders but those teams who are missing their best WRs and who don't feature scary passing attacks either. In my view, he was beaten early and often by Luck and the Colts. Arizona, he had chances to make plays that could've won us the game. I'm sure things could have been worse but it was the pass rush that kept us in that game, not the play of our secondary which seemed to allow receptions every time Kolb had time in the pocket.

I have hopes for him but he certainly still worries me.

I think you're assuming that because I'm willing to talk about a good players faults that somehow that equates to me saying he's trash.That's just a dangerously unintelligent thing to do. That stops any good conversation in it's tracks.

I'm just being open, honest and forthcoming with my views. If you disagree then explain why. If you agree then admit it and stop being difficult.

Ted Ginn was a great example of how people aren't willing to having an open conversation about someone. I bet you that 99% of the fan-base thought Ted Ginn was a decent player and an asset but a few people wouldn't allow you to say that and so instead we got nothing but arguments with people purposely misinterpreting reasonable statements.

I'm just asking that you don't do that here with my views on Sean Smith. We agree on Sean Smith. We're both fans of his. Why are we arguing? In my view, it's because you think I'm somehow evil for talking about what limitations he currently has. Somehow, because there are more pressing needs, I'm not allowed to talk about Sean Smith. That seems to be your message.

For more on my thoughts regarding the secondary--more positive thoughts--see the next post. Smile




And as far as something else we agree on:

While I'd like some credit on the idea that our Guards are one of our primary weaknesses right now, I fully agree that what this team needs is for everyone to stop rocking the boat. I don't want to see roster changes unless they are obviously an upgrade. Tony Sparano planted a no-name rookie at RG every one of his 4 seasons here and was surprised when the guy he had starting his 1st game week 1 didn't play like an all pro. If we'd have stuck with Donald Thomas or John Jerry for the duration of the time, it would have made us (as well as them) better players.

It also forced us to chase crap in FA that we didn't need which only serves to make Ireland look more suspicious and our $158M O-line that much more painfully ironic.

I agree with you. I just get the sense you are a little condescending regarding my views for whatever reason.

Got nothing but love for you, bro.

Just saying.


Last edited by phinmun on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:42 pm; edited 8 times in total
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Things I Think I Know Part II Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:


4. This defense needs to add an elite athlete in the back end. I'm really not sure who the fastest player on the defense is. Clemons? He has good speed, but there is no elite speed on the defense, and against a team with WR like the Colts for example, that will cause problems. Smith just simply isn't fast enough to run with Hilton or Avery deep, I question why he wasn't asked to press the, but I digress.




Well, our defense lacks something. I believe that many of the players we currently have are alright for what we want moving forward but there's something missing. I'm not sure speed is the only thing we need but I would welcome us moving in a direction that adds it because it's an asset every team in the current NFL needs in spades. I don't see anyone on the roster who is great is deep coverage for instance. But I don't see anyone who's real physical in coverage either. If anything, our secondary just isn't playing up to their potential at times because I think if we tightened things up we'd get over whatever little hump seems to be right in front of us. I don't dislike anyone in our secondary including Carroll and Wilson to be honest.

Wilson and Jones are very physical. Sean Smith is very smart and rarely out of position. Clemons is a sure tackler. Carroll is slowly evolving as a solid cover guy himself. In reality, I have high hopes for our secondary which is why I'm puzzled when we don't play well. We should have a nice combination of intelligence, physicality and play-making ability I think.

It could simply be the addition of another rusher and a little more time that allows this secondary to gel into one of the league's best but I do believe it has that potential.

Smith, as you pointed out, lacks top-end speed. He should be compensating for this fact through his physical press at the line. You pointed out how he didn't do that against Indy though. I would say it's an overall weakness in general but either way it's not good when he allows a fast guy by him because the odds he's catching up are slim. My hypothesis on Smith not pressing is that he wants to avoid getting turned around by a quick guy because those mistakes would be costly and ugly. Playing a little conservative is alright. I'm fine with adjusting to someone who's got leverage on you physically. It's just an unfortunately side-effect I think of the way Sean Smith is built physically that any team like the Colts can simply throw Wayne on Wilson for a match-up 'win' and a smaller, quicker guy on Smith for a 'win.' In reality, I think Smith would do better against a guy like Wayne but offenses are going to dictate those match-ups and if they're smart probably try and beat Smith with a smaller guy who's got some speed.

I don't think our Safeties lack speed but Clemons hasn't evolved in pass defense the way I thought he would. He was part of a fairly strong secondary at Clemson and came on fairly well his 1st year back there. That season he had off for injury was the one I thought he'd take a positive step. This year he's undoubtedly adjusting to being back on the field and to playing the new scheme so it's hard to criticize but he's not as physical a presence as he seemed to be early on. The knock I have on Clemons is that he seems to be arriving late to the ball and only arriving on scene to make a tackle. I'd like to see more from the position but I'm not screaming for Eric Reid just yet.

Pass rush is the easy answer and we surely need it but I think we can improve our play throughout the defense and since we seem on the brink of really playing well I think we can actually improve it to the point we're consistent top-10 in both run- and pass-defense instead of being so one-sided as we currently are.

It probably will come down to adding a pass rusher either way though because Sean Smith seems to be able to break up those quick slants sufficiently enough that gambling and playing closer to a smaller, quicker WR on the line would be alright if we knew our pass rush would get home.

Wilson and Carroll seem to be doing alright as well. Wilson surprised me against Indy because it was mostly great routes and great throws that beat him. Plus, Wilson is going to play as physically as he can. Smith is more cautious I think as a means of maintaining good position, which is good as well.

I like how they compliment each other. It might sound silly and presumptuous but Jimmy Wilson might be the 2nd guy we thought Vontae Davis was going to be. It could wind up that way.


Last edited by phinmun on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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