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News/Info Thread 3 (Foles' job, Vick officially benched)
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RollEagles wrote:


Nicks has played in 4 postseason games.

He is averaging 111 yards per game and 1 TD catch per game.

Maclin has played in 2 postseason games.

He is averaging 109.5 yards per game and 0.5 TD catches per game.

SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!


LOL Laughing
I did the same thing.
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RollEagles


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
RollEagles wrote:


Nicks has played in 4 postseason games.

He is averaging 111 yards per game and 1 TD catch per game.

Maclin has played in 2 postseason games.

He is averaging 109.5 yards per game and 0.5 TD catches per game.

SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!


LOL Laughing
I did the same thing.


It is too easy. Cool
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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
BroadwayJoe wrote:

And as I sad initially. The gap APPEARS to be wider because Nicks has two 1,000 yard receiving seasons and a pro-bowl and you have to take that into account when comparing the two.



That's the most rediculous claim yet. First and let's be clear. In 2010 when Maclin had his 964 he was INTENTIONALLY sat week 17 for the playoffs despite easily attaining the 1000 yd bench mark you all love to throw out there. Last season Despite the illness Maclin was on pace for almost 1100 yds but missed 3 games. Playing in a Pro Bowl means absolutely nothing these days, it's a joke.

Not one person has been able to explain to me or anyone else in this thread that has unfortunately turn into another Maclin thread. Exactly how if Hakeem Nicks who was sent down by the Gods with Superior Hands, Footwork,RZ ability, route running ,overall skills and top 10 talent can have Damn near identical stats to a scrub WR like Jeremy Maclin who is at best in the mid 20's? Please don't come back with pass happy BS when the Giants the past few years have chucked it up with the best of them. This is not the 2007 Giants where the running game dominated the offense.

But they don't have identical stats when you add in Nicks' 444 yards and 4 TDs in the postseason. This is where the trick was played on you all. He only took the stats of these two players during the regular season negating the dominance we all have seen from Nicks during the postseason as if it never happened. Well it did happen and so it factors into why we know for certain that Nicks is superior to Maclin.




Yeah I actually brought that up too......Maclin has NEVER put up any sort of multiple game stretch of dominance like Nicks did in that postseason last year. He was incredible. It was akin to Fitz's 2008 playoff performance. Fitz also had a HOF QB throwing to him at the time as well as a great receiver next to him in Boldin....just like Nicks did. So those excuses being made as to whyNicks had sucess are lame...unless you wanna discredir Fitz's historic performance as well...

Maclin doesn't have the talent to dominate like Nicks did. That's what really sets them apart to me....and I don't think anyone addressed that point of mine either.
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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RollEagles wrote:
Phire wrote:
RollEagles wrote:


Nicks has played in 4 postseason games.

He is averaging 111 yards per game and 1 TD catch per game.

Maclin has played in 2 postseason games.

He is averaging 109.5 yards per game and 0.5 TD catches per game.

SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!


LOL Laughing
I did the same thing.


It is too easy. Cool



Lets just blindly throw.out stats without considerinf any other variables!!


Such as the fact that most all of Maclins yards came in a blowout loss to Dallas....good job Maclin way to have a huge impact! Its not like Nicks dominance helped his team win a Superbowl or anything
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RollEagles wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
BroadwayJoe wrote:

And as I sad initially. The gap APPEARS to be wider because Nicks has two 1,000 yard receiving seasons and a pro-bowl and you have to take that into account when comparing the two.



That's the most rediculous claim yet. First and let's be clear. In 2010 when Maclin had his 964 he was INTENTIONALLY sat week 17 for the playoffs despite easily attaining the 1000 yd bench mark you all love to throw out there. Last season Despite the illness Maclin was on pace for almost 1100 yds but missed 3 games. Playing in a Pro Bowl means absolutely nothing these days, it's a joke.

Not one person has been able to explain to me or anyone else in this thread that has unfortunately turn into another Maclin thread. Exactly how if Hakeem Nicks who was sent down by the Gods with Superior Hands, Footwork,RZ ability, route running ,overall skills and top 10 talent can have Damn near identical stats to a scrub WR like Jeremy Maclin who is at best in the mid 20's? Please don't come back with pass happy BS when the Giants the past few years have chucked it up with the best of them. This is not the 2007 Giants where the running game dominated the offense.



But they don't have identical stats when you add in Nicks' 444 yards and 4 TDs in the postseason. This is where the trick was played on you all. He only took the stats of these two players during the regular season negating the dominance we all have seen from Nicks during the postseason as if it never happened. Well it did happen and so it factors into why we know for certain that Nicks is superior to Maclin.


Nicks has played in 4 postseason games.

He is averaging 111 yards per game and 1 TD catch per game.

Maclin has played in 2 postseason games.

He is averaging 109.5 yards per game and 0.5 TD catches per game.

SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!


LOL @ half a touchdown. That's Jason Avant territory...
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
Maclin doesn't have the talent to dominate like Nicks did. That's what really sets them apart to me....and I don't think anyone addressed that point of mine either.


I think it's fair statement, yet there is no stats that prove this, great if you find stats on how much Nicks is double covered compare to maclin
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baconrad3 wrote:
RollEagles wrote:
Phire wrote:
RollEagles wrote:


Nicks has played in 4 postseason games.

He is averaging 111 yards per game and 1 TD catch per game.

Maclin has played in 2 postseason games.

He is averaging 109.5 yards per game and 0.5 TD catches per game.

SUCH A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!


LOL Laughing
I did the same thing.


It is too easy. Cool



Lets just blindly throw.out stats without considerinf any other variables!!


Such as the fact that most all of Maclins yards came in a blowout loss to Dallas....good job Maclin way to have a huge impact! Its not like Nicks dominance helped his team win a Superbowl or anything


Blowout? When he had his big touchdown it tied the game up 7-7.
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baconrad3


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Let's just move on from the Maclin/Nicks thing? They have long careers ahead of them.

We can conclude the following:
1) Nicks is clearly better than Maclin.
2) But as far as production goes, for varying reasons, the #s are similar.

I think that's a fair assessment.



Missed this post.


Agreed. Lets move on.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
Maclin doesn't have the talent to dominate like Nicks did. That's what really sets them apart to me....and I don't think anyone addressed that point of mine either.


I think it's fair statement, yet there is no stats that prove this, great if you find stats on how much Nicks is double covered compare to maclin


Teams tried to limit Victor Cruz last year in the post season.
You know, the guy who had 1500+ yards last year.
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicks goes over the middle in traffic. Maclin never does because the coaching staff have known since he got here that he has alligator arms. That was proven in one of his first preseason games. A shallow drag route under clear out routes isn't going over the middle to me. That's what Maclin runs that some may say is "going over the middle" but all of the hitters were cleared out.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more posters try to prove how dominate Nicks is in comparison to Maclin the dumber they look. Bring up post season stats as another reason he is better but Maclins stats pro rated over the same 4 gm averages he already has in 2 post season games (Team Sport) and again almost identical production outside 2 less TD. It hilarious watching you guys scramble for any legit reasoning behind such a monumental gap in talent between two players Rolling Eyes translating into a drastic difference in on the field production. Laughing
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RandyMossIsBoss


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"1000 yards is 1000 yards, doesn't matter how you got it they're equal"

This seems to be the core principle of the pro-Maclin arguments, and it's idiotic. A 10 yard lob to the endzone where the WR goes up and gets it is more impressive than a 10 yard TD that was the result of broken coverage. You can say both are equally impressive plays by the team, but not by the individual receiver. Yes, they end up with the same result but one involved skill while the other involved luck. The fact that you guys are being so narrow-minded here only drives the point that you don't truly believe Maclin to be equal to Nicks, you just want to believe that. Another example would be say 2 receivers each had 5 receptions for 50 yards. One receiver got all his catches in soft zone coverage, the other got all his catches in traffic... Sure they yield the same result, but one is more impressive than the other. Maclin rarely makes catches in traffic, and he rarely is able to make a play when there's good coverage on him. That's not a negative or anything as most receivers can't make plays on good coverage. Although for the guys who do possess this trait, like Nicks, it's definitely a positive. And for the last time, I'm NOT a Maclin hater and I haven't acted like we should get rid of him once so stop replying to me by acting like I have. All you guys do is cop out by saying I'm having a double standard, even though I'm not in the slightest. Not once have I knocked Maclin for being soft, or any softer than Nicks. Stop pretending my view is being clouded by being a Maclin hater, because I'm not, just think Nicks is a very good receiver.

Also Maclin has 24 career drops, Nicks has just 17. That's actually a pretty sizable difference. Gives Maclin a drop rate of 9.7% and Nicks a drop rate of 6.7%. This is certainly enough of a difference to justify saying Nicks has better hands than Maclin (although just actually watching the two play will tell you that).

I hate having to talk negatively about Maclin, but I what homerism even more. Just to add a little positivity here on Maclin, thus far in their careers Maclin has statistically out performed Nicks in the red zone. So you see, I don't think it's all bad with Maclin, I just think there receivers who are better than him and Nicks is one of them.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
"1000 yards is 1000 yards, doesn't matter how you got it they're equal"

This seems to be the core principle of the pro-Maclin arguments, and it's idiotic.A 10 yard lob to the endzone where the WR goes up and gets it is more impressive than a 10 yard TD that was the result of broken coverage.


So you're going to call us 'idiotic' and 'narrow minded' yet you're going to argue that the production over his multi-year career was based on broken coverage and luck?

Quote:
You can say both are equally impressive plays by the team, but not by the individual receiver. Yes, they end up with the same result but one involved skill while the other involved luck.


Let me repeat what I posted before.
So you're going to call us 'idiotic' and 'narrow minded' yet you're going to argue that the production over his multi-year career was based on broken coverage and luck?

Quote:
The fact that you guys are being so narrow-minded here only drives the point that you don't truly believe Maclin to be equal to Nicks, you just want to believe that.


That sounds like a 'narrow minded' assumption being made about us.

Quote:
Another example would be say 2 receivers each had 5 receptions for 50 yards. One receiver got all his catches in soft zone coverage, the other got all his catches in traffic... Sure they yield the same result, but one is more impressive than the other.


Nobody is arguing otherwise.

Quote:
Maclin rarely makes catches in traffic, and he rarely is able to make a play when there's good coverage on him. That's not a negative or anything as most receivers can't make plays on good coverage. Although for the guys who do possess this trait, like Nicks, it's definitely a positive.


Right, which is the conundrum. If Maclin rarely makes catches in traffic, is unreliable to make plays, never takes games over, has bad hands, is always injured... then how in the heck did he keep up statistically with Hakeem the Dream?

Quote:
And for the last time, I'm NOT a Maclin hater and I haven't acted like we should get rid of him once so stop replying to me by acting like I have. All you guys do is cop out by saying I'm having a double standard, even though I'm not in the slightest. Not once have I knocked Maclin for being soft, or any softer than Nicks. Stop pretending my view is being clouded by being a Maclin hater, because I'm not, just think Nicks is a very good receiver.


I too think Nicks is a very good receiver.
But I think he's overrated, certainly not top 10 which was said in this thread.

Quote:
Also Maclin has 24 career drops, Nicks has just 17. That's actually a pretty sizable difference. Gives Maclin a drop rate of 9.7% and Nicks a drop rate of 6.7%. This is certainly enough of a difference to justify saying Nicks has better hands than Maclin (although just actually watching the two play will tell you that).


They've both seen hundreds of passes. A difference of 7 is minuscule.

Quote:
I hate having to talk negatively about Maclin, but I what homerism even more. Just to add a little positivity here on Maclin, thus far in their careers Maclin has statistically out performed Nicks in the red zone. So you see, I don't think it's all bad with Maclin, I just think there receivers who are better than him and Nicks is one of them.


I don't know why you guys get so mad about this. People have claimed (and stop taking things personally, there are multiple people replying to the same conversation with varying opinions and we aren't mind readers) that Maclin is straight up garbage.

That annoys the crap out of me, so I compare them statistically with a guy who is a very fine receiver in New York who happens to be from the same draft class.

And then you guys get all upset that we're making it sound like Maclin is better than Nicks. Really? When we have said REPEATEDLY that that is not our goal, which it isn't, never has been, and will not be for the immediate future.

I disagreed with people calling him straight garbage.

Just because you joined the conversation while I was upping Maclin, don't act like I was trying to do something that you imagined.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RMIB maybe I missed the post but did any of us refer to You specifically? I appreciate the above post and can understand the thinking behind it. However in the end the production is still the same. It's like knocking Victor Cruz because he's luckier then hell with tipped passes turning into 80 yd TD. Although true, in the end that one play still produced 80 and a touch. Whether it came in one catch or 8. In traffic or blown coverage. I've never one time said Jeremy Maclin is better then Hakeem Nicks. The point I and others are trying to convey is. No matter how you slice it, how much superior a talent Nicks might be. On the field for their respective teams the production across the board is extremely similar. How if that is the case is one WR considered Top 10 and the other in the late 20's early 30's and with some of the fan base easily replacable? That I will never understand.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hakeem Nicks >>> J Mac. If you dont believe this stop kidding yourself.
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