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cattleman78


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject: Rate Heckert's draft Reply with quote

Since we are in the bye week I thought this would be interesting.
The number before the player is the round he was drafted in.

2010 class
1. J. Haden c.b. A- would be an A except for suspension.
2. T.J. Ward s B+ has really come on this year.
2. M. Hardesty D- would have been an F but for this year.
3. C. McCoy B- as a backup D as a starter.
3. S. Lauvao o.g. C+ another guy who has improved this year.
5. Larry Assante s F cut quickly
6. Carlton Mitchell F- because he teased us a couple years before getting cut.
6. Clifton Geathers F same reason as Assante

overall for this class C+

2011 Class

1. P.Taylor d.t. B- if not for injury might be higher. Should become a solid A- player
2. J. Sheard d.e. B playing the run a little better but needs more sacks. Has the ability to become an A player.
2. G. Little w.r. C+ should also become better
4. J. Cameron t.e. D Needs to improve. Shows some flashes.
4. O. Marecic f.b. F enough said.
5. Buster Skrine c.b. C Contributes. Has a way to go.
5. J. Pinkston o.g. C- Works hard but now on injured reserve.
6. E. Hagg s C- contributes on special teams but flunked as a starter.

Overall for this class B-

2012 class

1. T. Richardson r.b. A- this kid makes opposing team's defenses plan for him. Plays through injuries.
1. B. Weeden q.b. C- Needs to improve. I think he has talent though. Gave him a little higher grade because he is a q.b.
2. M. Schwartz r.t. B gets better and better. Think he will become an A player.
3. J. Hughes C+. clogs the middle but not much else.
4. T. Benjamon w.r. C+ Will get better
4. J.M. Johnson l.b. C+ starting and shows some flash. needs to get better
5. R. Miller o.g. incomplete. Hasn't played much.
6. E. Acho l.b. incomplete hurt
6. B. Winn d.t. B steal of the draft. Love his hustle.
7. T. Wade c.b. C good 7th round pick
7. Brad Smelley t.e. D For at least making the practice squad.

Overall grade B. This high grade is somewhat on the potential I see.

Overall I give Heckert a B When you include some U.D.F.A. This is a good grade for a G.M.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Rate Heckert's draft Reply with quote

cattleman78 wrote:
Since we are in the bye week I thought this would be interesting.
The number before the player is the round he was drafted in.

2010 class
1. J. Haden c.b. A- would be an A except for suspension.
2. T.J. Ward s B+ has really come on this year.
2. M. Hardesty D- would have been an F but for this year.
3. C. McCoy B- as a backup D as a starter.
3. S. Lauvao o.g. C+ another guy who has improved this year.
5. Larry Assante s F cut quickly
6. Carlton Mitchell F- because he teased us a couple years before getting cut.
6. Clifton Geathers F same reason as Assante

overall for this class C+

2011 Class

1. P.Taylor d.t. B- if not for injury might be higher. Should become a solid A- player
2. J. Sheard d.e. B playing the run a little better but needs more sacks. Has the ability to become an A player.
2. G. Little w.r. C+ should also become better
4. J. Cameron t.e. D Needs to improve. Shows some flashes.
4. O. Marecic f.b. F enough said.
5. Buster Skrine c.b. C Contributes. Has a way to go.
5. J. Pinkston o.g. C- Works hard but now on injured reserve.
6. E. Hagg s C- contributes on special teams but flunked as a starter.

Overall for this class B-

2012 class

1. T. Richardson r.b. A- this kid makes opposing team's defenses plan for him. Plays through injuries.
1. B. Weeden q.b. C- Needs to improve. I think he has talent though. Gave him a little higher grade because he is a q.b.
2. M. Schwartz r.t. B gets better and better. Think he will become an A player.
3. J. Hughes C+. clogs the middle but not much else.
4. T. Benjamon w.r. C+ Will get better
4. J.M. Johnson l.b. C+ starting and shows some flash. needs to get better
5. R. Miller o.g. incomplete. Hasn't played much.
6. E. Acho l.b. incomplete hurt
6. B. Winn d.t. B steal of the draft. Love his hustle.
7. T. Wade c.b. C good 7th round pick
7. Brad Smelley t.e. D For at least making the practice squad.

Overall grade B. This high grade is somewhat on the potential I see.

Overall I give Heckert a B When you include some U.D.F.A. This is a good grade for a G.M.


I pretty much agree with all of this.
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Reginaldm9


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm finding it hard to disagree with your ratings here.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May how ask how you came up with the overall grades? was it based off the individual grades you chose for the players and averaged out? Or just based on the draft as a whole as you see it, as you did with the individual players?
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If McCoy and Weeden had been drafted in the same round would there be a bigger differential in their grades? I assume you took the round drafted into consideration.

However, if you didn't... I think there should be a bigger differential than C- and D.

Once again, I'm pretty sure it is based on the round drafted and in that case I have no issue with the grades, but geez someone has to make some sort of an argument or there won't be any discussion Very Happy
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
May how ask how you came up with the overall grades? was it based off the individual grades you chose for the players and averaged out? Or just based on the draft as a whole as you see it, as you did with the individual players?


I did not average it out. Like the draft with Haden I gave it a C+ Heckert hit big on the first two picks. Third round picks McCoy as a backup and Lauvao as a starting guard were decent. Actually if I was grading Lauvao just on this year he would have graded out at a B-. 4TH Round and down I did not deduct from the final grade as much as higher picks. Now if Haden was a bust this overall 2010 class would have graded out at a D. Also when I downgraded Haden a little for his suspension that was his fault not Heckerts. Heckert actually drafted an A player in Haden.

The 2012 draft I graded some on performance and some on players potential. Overall grade on 2012 was helped greatly by 6th round pick Winn.

Hope that helps.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
If McCoy and Weeden had been drafted in the same round would there be a bigger differential in their grades? I assume you took the round drafted into consideration.

However, if you didn't... I think there should be a bigger differential than C- and D.

Once again, I'm pretty sure it is based on the round drafted and in that case I have no issue with the grades, but geez someone has to make some sort of an argument or there won't be any discussion Very Happy


Rounds drafted did make a difference. I personnally expect a starter out of our top three rounds except at q.b. A third rounder for a backup q.b. is not to high of a price to pay. Weeden has a bigger arm than Colt but face it he is about last in the league in yards per pass. You could actually argue like Colt he has been a dink and dunk guy but not quite as bad. You do expect more from a first rounder than a third rounder. Weeden with a C- is what he deserved. I even upped his grade because he plays the hardest position in football.

A first rounder to me has to grade out at least a B+. A sixth round surprise like Billy Winn does get his grade bumped up a notch. And Heckert gets bumped up a lot because of Winn. If Winn looked like a bust as a sixth rounder I would not have deducted as much.

My thoughts are you need a very good player in the first round like Haden. The second and third round you should get a good player. Later rounds if you get a good player that is a very big plus.

To build a good team you have to hit on your first three rounds. A great team not only does that but finds some gems like Rubin and Winn in later rounds. Than if you are real lucky you find a Tom Brady in the sixth round. That more than anything helped the Pats.

I hoped that helped you understand how I graded.

Some drafts also are stronger than others.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot Flash Gordan in the 2012 class. I feel he will develop into a number one receiver. That would bump up Heckert's grade one notch. To a B+.
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bigdogsandiego


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job and effort as I concur with first two drafts but strongly suggest Heckert or whoever dropped the football on 2012 draft! Bottom line is wins and this draft did not improve the number of wins from last year. I give Heckert D+.

Browns had a lot of needs going into the draft and a lot of picks. The main goal in the final year of rebuilding should be to get a playmaker on each side of the ball with two #1 picks and finalize the line of scrimmage with O and D line.

Heckert burned 4,5,7 picks to move up when we had many needs. Weeden and Schwartz were reaches because they could have been drafted later. We needed FS, G, DE, speed LB, which were not addressed yet critical to line of scrimmage and D.

Just think if we drafted Claiborne or Blackmon or Richardson or Tannehill with #4!

What about Jones, Watt (trade up), or LDE or Martin RB( if we went Claiborne)at #22!

Then, finish finding the missing parts of line of scrimmage as well as D needs above and Browns would have been close to .500 team with McCoy/Wallace at QB. If the QB's bombed with poor record, then Browns would have shot at Barkely and Smith.

Now we get a mulligan for 2013 plus FA with Banner at the helm!
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pmk


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigdogsandiego wrote:

Heckert burned 4,5,7 picks to move up when we had many needs. Weeden and Schwartz were reaches because they could have been drafted later.
To the former, how many 4th, 5th and 7th round picks get a second contract? Those picks are always a dice roll.

To the later, prove it? You have no way of knowing that is true. For all we know teams were looking to trade up to take both of those guys and the browns were lucky they were available when they were.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pmk wrote:
bigdogsandiego wrote:

Heckert burned 4,5,7 picks to move up when we had many needs. Weeden and Schwartz were reaches because they could have been drafted later.
To the former, how many 4th, 5th and 7th round picks get a second contract? Those picks are always a dice roll.

To the later, prove it? You have no way of knowing that is true. For all we know teams were looking to trade up to take both of those guys and the browns were lucky they were available when they were.


I hate these arguments.

PMK is right, you have no idea what other teams were about to do. Reaches because of what? Because Kiper and a draft guide called Schwartz a late 2nd early 3rd guy? He's played like the best RT taken so far, so I could give to ***** where they thought he would be drafted.

Weeden was drafted at 22 because we were picking at 22. This isn't Madden.

You can't just magically trade back a few spots if you think it's better value.

As far as the trading of the late picks, the Vikes GM has said ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS that we made the right move because they would have traded the pick. Then we would be stuck with Blackmon or maybe Claiborne instead of Trent.

BTW, look how many rookies are on this team, you really think a 4,6,7 would be a good addition? We are swimming in youth.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8601157/nfl-midseason-all-rookie-team


^
ESPN's all rookie team.

Weeden was an honorable mention at QB
Richardson is there at RB
Gordon is there at WR
Schwartz it there at RT
Wynn is there at DT

I'd say Heckert did just fine with his "reaches" this past offseason.

Not to mention that the pundits really think Gordon will be a #1 WR and we got him a year early compared to our upcoming 2nd rounder in what most view as the worst draft class in years.

Tom Heckert = Beast Mode
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Dawgpoun8017


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8601157/nfl-midseason-all-rookie-team


^
ESPN's all rookie team.

Weeden was an honorable mention at QB
Richardson is there at RB
Gordon is there at WR
Schwartz it there at RT
Wynn is there at DT

I'd say Heckert did just fine with his "reaches" this past offseason.

Not to mention that the pundits really think Gordon will be a #1 WR and we got him a year early compared to our upcoming 2nd rounder in what most view as the worst draft class in years.

Tom Heckert = Beast Mode


Boom roasted
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dawgpoun8017 wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8601157/nfl-midseason-all-rookie-team


^
ESPN's all rookie team.

Weeden was an honorable mention at QB
Richardson is there at RB
Gordon is there at WR
Schwartz it there at RT
Wynn is there at DT

I'd say Heckert did just fine with his "reaches" this past offseason.

Not to mention that the pundits really think Gordon will be a #1 WR and we got him a year early compared to our upcoming 2nd rounder in what most view as the worst draft class in years.

Tom Heckert = Beast Mode


Boom roasted


Give Tom Heckert your tears or he will take them from you!!!!!!!!
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BrownieTheElf


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also find it hard to believe to get a F for a late round pick.
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