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Jake Long isn't helping Ryan Tannehill
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Miami2DaMax


Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 792
Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Jake Long isn't helping Ryan Tannehill Reply with quote

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000091161/article/jake-long-isnt-helping-ryan-tannehill-miami-dolphins

Thoughts? I'd only trade him for a first round, and that's if we pretty much had to.

I personally thought Thomas and Bush made Long look worse than he was when they failed to block as well.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6841
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All due respect ...
It doesn't matter that we drafted him #1 overall , we'd be lucky to get a 3rd rnd pk for him today if we hadn't
missed the 2012 trade deadline already.

The time to trade him was last yr as several of us pointed out.
The trade deadline came & went & we missed that window, TWICE !!!

Am I really one of the few that saw this thing coming at us in "slow motion" last yr, said something & then had
to defend my position on trading this "Overall #1 Great HOF LOT" ??? Confused

You are "jacked up on heroine suppositories" to think that you will now, in 2012 get a 2nd rnd pk much less a 1st rnd pk for Jake Long. Laughing

Better to trade a player a yr too early than a yr too late.

sug
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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we can end the trade Jake conversations now that the trade deadline has passed and he will be a free agent.

We need to move on to the what would you sing him for or would you franchise him talk. I'm not sure I would go any higher than 8 mil a season. And that's only IF we know of some reason he is so terrible this year and might be able to regain some semblance of his old self. He was been a below average LT this whole season.
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TheKillerNacho


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our secret has been exposed...

Dolphins fans have been aware of Long's disappointing season for quite some time. He's not a strong fit for the ZBS and has not recovered from his pre-season injury well. We should've tried bouncing him before the trade deadline.

The best option for us now is to tag & trade him.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that this is not the first time Freeney made Jake Long look terrible.

When the Colts came to Miami a couple seasons ago Freeney tormented Long all night. I'm not sure scheme has anything to do with this match-up. Freeney is speed rusher. Jake Long struggles with speedy, edge rushers.

Don't talk to me about how the scheme failed. Jake Long failed just like he failed before in what was supposedly a better scheme.

This is the second time Jake Long had a bad game going against Freeney. Once it was as a Man-blocking LT. This time it was as a Zone-blocking LT.

You're all going to lay this on the scheme which doesn't make sense. To lay it on scheme is to say Jake Long isn't smart enough to catch on here.

If you just want a better pass-protecting LT, just say so.

You guys don't have to hide behind scheme. It's not scheme so much as I can tell. Jake Long just isn't fast enough to secure the edge against elite speed.

That problem has arisen in both man- and zone-blocking with him so don't act like you're surprised when Freeney eats his lunch.

It's happened before.
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to be honest i dont know what to think about jake long anymore Mad
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phinmun wrote:
Keep in mind that this is not the first time Freeney made Jake Long look terrible.

When the Colts came to Miami a couple seasons ago Freeney tormented Long all night. I'm not sure scheme has anything to do with this match-up. Freeney is speed rusher. Jake Long struggles with speedy, edge rushers.

Don't talk to me about how the scheme failed. Jake Long failed just like he failed before in what was supposedly a better scheme.

This is the second time Jake Long had a bad game going against Freeney. Once it was as a Man-blocking LT. This time it was as a Zone-blocking LT.

You're all going to lay this on the scheme which doesn't make sense. To lay it on scheme is to say Jake Long isn't smart enough to catch on here.

If you just want a better pass-protecting LT, just say so.

You guys don't have to hide behind scheme. It's not scheme so much as I can tell. Jake Long just isn't fast enough to secure the edge against elite speed.

That problem has arisen in both man- and zone-blocking with him so don't act like you're surprised when Freeney eats his lunch.

It's happened before.


Yes, Long has struggled against Mathis in the past, but this has been about the whole season. Jake Long was playing like an elite LT from 2008 to 2010. He had a good season in 2011. This season, he's playing like trash.

There are exactly two differences between last season and this one.
- Scheme switch to ZBS
- His injury

One of these things, probably a bit of both, is the reason for Long's decline in play over the course of the season.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn', we've got a bunch of knee jerkers in this forum. Jake Long has had NO WHERE NEAR as bad of a season as many would have you believe. Yes, he had a bad game this last week. No doubt about it. But he is taking a lot of blame this season for mistake largely associated to Richie Icognito. Is he worth the largest salary in the league at his position? No. Probably not. However, he is a solid piece of the offensive line. Just because Tannehill is pressured of even sacked from the side that Long is on, doesn't mean its Long fault. This witch hunt reminds me a lot of the Sean Smith witch hunt the last couple of years. Its exhausting and largely unfounded.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should be noted that a ZBS has nothing to do with Pass blocking it is a run blocking scheme. Pass Blocking in any scheme is almost always zone, and not man on man. So when we see Long struggling in the passing game, which is most of what people are seeing, then it has absolutely nothing to do with the scheme. ZERO. Something is amiss with him this uear, just as it was the end of last year. There is some sort of injury that is limiting him from being what he used to be. And I'm starting to think it's not going to get better. He has become an average LT. Below average in the passing game, and above average in the run game, even in a ZBS.
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MiaDolphan13


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
It should be noted that a ZBS has nothing to do with Pass blocking it is a run blocking scheme. Pass Blocking in any scheme is almost always zone, and not man on man. So when we see Long struggling in the passing game, which is most of what people are seeing, then it has absolutely nothing to do with the scheme. ZERO. Something is amiss with him this uear, just as it was the end of last year. There is some sort of injury that is limiting him from being what he used to be. And I'm starting to think it's not going to get better. He has become an average LT. Below average in the passing game, and above average in the run game, even in a ZBS.


Anyone have an inclination of what the major injury is?
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Niedermaier


Joined: 19 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Damn', we've got a bunch of knee jerkers in this forum. Jake Long has had NO WHERE NEAR as bad of a season as many would have you believe. Yes, he had a bad game this last week. No doubt about it. But he is taking a lot of blame this season for mistake largely associated to Richie Icognito. Is he worth the largest salary in the league at his position? No. Probably not. However, he is a solid piece of the offensive line. Just because Tannehill is pressured of even sacked from the side that Long is on, doesn't mean its Long fault. This witch hunt reminds me a lot of the Sean Smith witch hunt the last couple of years. Its exhausting and largely unfounded.


Why would we subtract a position we have already filled with a top 10 player at his position, only to have to address it in the off season when we have more pressing holes to fill. Might as well start talking about picking a OT with the first round pick.

I agree 100% that Jake Long is having to pick up the slack of a weak OG to his right and I think he is doing a decent job. Plus, add a decent blocking TE in this draft and Long will also improve.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niedermaier wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
Damn', we've got a bunch of knee jerkers in this forum. Jake Long has had NO WHERE NEAR as bad of a season as many would have you believe. Yes, he had a bad game this last week. No doubt about it. But he is taking a lot of blame this season for mistake largely associated to Richie Icognito. Is he worth the largest salary in the league at his position? No. Probably not. However, he is a solid piece of the offensive line. Just because Tannehill is pressured of even sacked from the side that Long is on, doesn't mean its Long fault. This witch hunt reminds me a lot of the Sean Smith witch hunt the last couple of years. Its exhausting and largely unfounded.


Why would we subtract a position we have already filled with a top 10 player at his position, only to have to address it in the off season when we have more pressing holes to fill. Might as well start talking about picking a OT with the first round pick.

I agree 100% that Jake Long is having to pick up the slack of a weak OG to his right and I think he is doing a decent job. Plus, add a decent blocking TE in this draft and Long will also improve.


Fasano is one of the better blocking TE's in the NFL. That aint gonna help a bit.

And you just said it yourself. He has been decent. Another word for average. And you don't pay an average LT 12-15 mil a season. If he is willing to take a major pay cut, then I'd be happy to have him back. I think he is worth keeping around, cause he is better than almost every alternative. But there are other free agents at plenty of need positions and I would rather spend the money on another position, then to blow it on a very average player, and that's all Long has been this year. He has allowed 3 sacks, lots of hurries, and I swear he has been penalized at least once a game without fail.
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WaterBear56


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long has been good to great. Not elite like before but having a good offensive tackle is still important. This was by far his worst game of his career and it was nowhere near the norm this season. He was playing against Mathis and Freeney who both have, for years, given him a hard time. He is still worth 9M in my eyes so long as he plays like he has been recently.

He did start the season poorly though I'll give you that but I have had nothing to complain about the past 4 games before Indy.
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dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
It should be noted that a ZBS has nothing to do with Pass blocking it is a run blocking scheme. Pass Blocking in any scheme is almost always zone, and not man on man. So when we see Long struggling in the passing game, which is most of what people are seeing, then it has absolutely nothing to do with the scheme. ZERO. Something is amiss with him this uear, just as it was the end of last year. There is some sort of injury that is limiting him from being what he used to be. And I'm starting to think it's not going to get better. He has become an average LT. Below average in the passing game, and above average in the run game, even in a ZBS.


Denial is a river in egypt. What is special about this river, is that if you drink it's water, you will find yourself fighting a rigorously fierce campaign against reality. Facts will annoy you and your own eyes will And this post reads like one huge revealing burp.

First of all, zone and man blocking completely different in pass protection. In man pass protection, the lineman is assigned to a specific player on the opposing defense. In Zone blocking the offensive lineman is assigned and responsible for an area. He has to work more closely with the other linemen on some plays.

And just to be extra clear. There was NO zone blocking for Jake Long before the dude that replaced Henning got here. ZERO ....

He has become an average LT (as predicted) because he's being asked to do things that contradict his skill set even down to a muscle memory level.
Before, he knew who he was going to block and how as soon as the huddle broke unless the Center may made a call during pre snap.

Now he has an area and he has to stick to that area. He has a decision to make after the snap if there are no defenders in his assigned area. Most likely he would tandem block with Incognito.

He's never done this at Michigan, and he has had Man Blocking be his world for 6 years of high level football.

bpastermack wrote:

He has become an average LT. Below average in the passing game ...


Coincidentally when we switched schemes, he goes from 1st overall pick future HOFer to a player barely worth 6-8 mil annually ? because of a mysterious injury ? Brick wall
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Damn', we've got a bunch of knee jerkers in this forum. Jake Long has had NO WHERE NEAR as bad of a season as many would have you believe. Yes, he had a bad game this last week. No doubt about it. But he is taking a lot of blame this season for mistake largely associated to Richie Icognito. Is he worth the largest salary in the league at his position? No. Probably not. However, he is a solid piece of the offensive line. Just because Tannehill is pressured of even sacked from the side that Long is on, doesn't mean its Long fault. This witch hunt reminds me a lot of the Sean Smith witch hunt the last couple of years. Its exhausting and largely unfounded.


Merc ... Sean Smith improved this season when no one other than you believed he could. This is not a situation where he was playing well all along and nobody saw it.
My stance was he was incapable of playing better and I was wrong. But you must know that he was not playing at this level in previous seasons.
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