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Red Zone Issues - Not on Reid or Vick
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Phire


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I'm sorry I made a mistake. The MIKE blitzes, not jams Celek like I typed.
Elementary read, the ball should be fired to Jackson.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
There is NOBODY between Maclin and the endzone.


Quote:


That pic says it all. Look at Maclin looking for Vick to swing that screen pass his way. Seeing this is just so frustrating.
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Sounds like Vick could do with one of these
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky_b27 wrote:


Sounds like Vick could do with one of these


A cerebral pocket passer who knows how to adjust to pre-snap looks is what we need. Vick has never and will never be that.

And the knock on pocket passers are that they are statues in the pocket, but guys like Rodgers/Big Ben/Luck elude sackers with ease using a simple step or two, and guys like P Manning/Brady/Brees get the ball off in time prior to the pressure hitting home. I, like the majority of us, want a QB like that more than I want an athlete playing QB.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean Maclin's not running a screen down there because he feels like it right?

That's play design.
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three things to solve our redzone woes

Arrow Better playcalling - well let's hope this gets solved with new management. Why do we never call fades, you don't have to have tall receivers. Hell Manning ran it with Wayne for years. When you have 1 on 1 coverage on the outside, the receiver should win 9 times out of 10 (or at least get a flag).

Arrow Height - I know it's a cliche, but having a tall receiver or tight end would really help in the redzone. When most safeties and cornerbacks are 6-0, and you have a 6-6 tight end against them, you have the mismatch advantage. Even though a numpty, you have to wonder if Plexiglass would have helped.

Arrow A stouter offensive line - let's face it, our athletic offensive line isn't going to drive defenders back 5 yards. Moving back to the big uglies who can actually blow people off the line of scrimmage will give McCoy those spaces. It'll actually help us on short yardage as well.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagles_808 wrote:
Phire wrote:
There is NOBODY between Maclin and the endzone.


Quote:


That pic says it all. Look at Maclin looking for Vick to swing that screen pass his way. Seeing this is just so frustrating.


Since Maclin is such a sure thing amazing over the middle presences who always makes the toughest catches. Notice where the defenders head and body positions are. He is either going to jump the route or blast the living crap out of Maclin or at the very least underhook and get his hand inside on the ball. but most likely blast Maclin.

Maclin has no advantages there. he can't jump. he cant break a tackel. he doesn't have strong hands to guarantee a catch. he is not quick in short distances. he not exceptionally long or tall.


You see such a difference tho with bigger stronger wide receiver they just man up on the ball and blast off defender and its not like you got to have Megatron but even a Crabtree would make a huge difference and I for one bashed the living crap out of Crabtree but you can see why he is different then a Maclin. Crabtree is muscular for one and has a really strong core and strong hands. He makes the catch and out muscles the defender at every aspect from ball control to breaking into the end zone.

Get some meat out there or some who can at least jump through the roof and out positoin every defender.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B60, Maclin is circled in red, Jackson is the slot guy you are seeing.

There is no defender within camera view of Maclin.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would put it:

1. Offensive line
2a. Running game
3b. Quarterback
4. Height
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky_b27 wrote:
Three things to solve our redzone woes

Arrow Better playcalling - well let's hope this gets solved with new management. Why do we never call fades, you don't have to have tall receivers. Hell Manning ran it with Wayne for years. When you have 1 on 1 coverage on the outside, the receiver should win 9 times out of 10 (or at least get a flag).

Arrow Height - I know it's a cliche, but having a tall receiver or tight end would really help in the redzone. When most safeties and cornerbacks are 6-0, and you have a 6-6 tight end against them, you have the mismatch advantage. Even though a numpty, you have to wonder if Plexiglass would have helped.

Arrow A stouter offensive line - let's face it, our athletic offensive line isn't going to drive defenders back 5 yards. Moving back to the big uglies who can actually blow people off the line of scrimmage will give McCoy those spaces. It'll actually help us on short yardage as well.


Disagree on the last part, you can succeed with the ZBS in the red zone, it's all about the RB and the Oline.
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
marky_b27 wrote:
Three things to solve our redzone woes

Arrow Better playcalling - well let's hope this gets solved with new management. Why do we never call fades, you don't have to have tall receivers. Hell Manning ran it with Wayne for years. When you have 1 on 1 coverage on the outside, the receiver should win 9 times out of 10 (or at least get a flag).

Arrow Height - I know it's a cliche, but having a tall receiver or tight end would really help in the redzone. When most safeties and cornerbacks are 6-0, and you have a 6-6 tight end against them, you have the mismatch advantage. Even though a numpty, you have to wonder if Plexiglass would have helped.

Arrow A stouter offensive line - let's face it, our athletic offensive line isn't going to drive defenders back 5 yards. Moving back to the big uglies who can actually blow people off the line of scrimmage will give McCoy those spaces. It'll actually help us on short yardage as well.


Disagree on the last part, you can succeed with the ZBS in the red zone, it's all about the RB and the Oline.


When you're against a goal line package, I think it makes the ZBS more difficult.
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texans doesn't seem to struggle, but I think they mix in some PBS
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Texans doesn't seem to struggle, but I think they mix in some PBS


And they have players you respect at WR and QB
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McNabb2Maclin


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-redzone-videos/09000d5d81bf1897/One-Sunday-57-touchdowns

Every week 9 touchdown.

Barely any team in the NFL "just throws it up to the big, tall guy".

Teams score in the redzone by

a) running back punches it in
b) timing and precision on routes


I can't watch the video right now, but I'm pretty confident that most of the running backs punching it in were on power running plays behind strong O-Line push. We simply can't do that. Most of our running success both this year AND last year (when the O-Line was still healthy) were on finesse running plays like misdirections, draws. We do not and did not have the ability to hand the rock to McCoy and have him push it in the RZ from the 3 yard line. That's what necessitates the play-calling that we've seen, like that shovel pass that you guys all hated. Our best chance in getting McCoy into the red zone is to decrease the work that the OLine has to do.

Also, saying "throwing it up to the big, tall guy" is grossly oversimplifying the value of having a guy like Vincent Jackson or Jimmy Graham in the Red Zone. Throwing timing routes is a hell of a lot easier to a guy who can beat the press off the line immediately, or be so effective at it that CB's dont even attempt to jam them at the line. They're a hell of alot easier when the WR/TE can shield the defender off with his big frame in the middle of the field. They're a hell of a lot easier when the ball doesnt have to be put right on the receiving targets numbers for it to be a completion. Are you comfortable with Vick zipping a ball 3-4 feet above Maclin or Celek's head for them to go up and snatch it. Chances are, with them, its a tipped pass interception.

Also, Celek isn't really a viable threat. In reality, hes an incredibly average TE. He's not going to create separation, and he isn't separation himself. Some guys just ARE separation. There doesnt need to be any space between them and their defenders for the QB to know that theyre gonna come down with the ball. Someone like Kyle Rudolph comes to mind, you put the ball where he can get a hand on it, chances are hes gonna come down with it. If you put the ball in his vicinity, chances are hes not gonna let the defender beat him to it.

I know the playcalling sucks, but I feel like Reid is FORCED to call these finesse plays because of the personnel.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bednarik60 wrote:
Eagles_808 wrote:
Look at Maclin looking for Vick to swing that screen pass his way. Seeing this is just so frustrating.


Notice where the defenders head and body positions are. He is either going to jump the route or blast the living crap out of Maclin or at the very least underhook and get his hand inside on the ball. but most likely blast Maclin.

Maclin has no advantages there.




Pre-snap:
Quote:



Post snap:
Quote:





Maclin was wide open for a screen.
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