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Red Zone Issues - Not on Reid or Vick
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nlesthought


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its the threat of having a big physical WR/TE...it dictates coverages. We play RZ defense vs Calvin Johnson with two DBs at the LOS Laughing ...that means there's only 9 guys covering the rest of the field.

Its playcalling and not having the personnel. You can't execute a shovel pass (out of split backs) when the Defense knows you don't run any other play from that formation.

EDIT: ^Its like playing NES Tecmo bowl and the guy your playing is staring at your controller knowing what play your picking ("star-gazing")
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nlesthought


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Having the best back in the league dictates coverages too.

It's all about execution.


Coverages are already limited in the RZ, so how does a RB dictate that?
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Phire


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nlesthought wrote:
Phire wrote:
Having the best back in the league dictates coverages too.

It's all about execution.


Coverages are already limited in the RZ, so how does a RB dictate that?


I was going to re-word it, but nonetheless, coverage is limited but it's not that limited. The redzone is a large area horizontally, just not vertically.

The redzone, being a short distance, also hurts defenses because sometimes making the first guy miss is all it takes to sneak in.

That's McCoy. If he makes one guy miss in the redzone it's over. So teams stack the box.

Teams are still blitzing Vick which is displacing coverage guys too.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent Celek on Redzone:

Quote:
"We should score on four of those possessions," said Celek. "It's inexcusable. It comes down to execution and we're just not executing."


Quote:
The Eagles, who led the league in red-zone turnovers last season, are tied with Detroit in the same category with five giveaways.


Now I'm just not sure how a big, tall receiver is going to help with that.

We need to

a) get better up front
b) take better care of the football
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EaglesFan5-36-81


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Brent Celek on Redzone:

Quote:
"We should score on four of those possessions," said Celek. "It's inexcusable. It comes down to execution and we're just not executing."


Quote:
The Eagles, who led the league in red-zone turnovers last season, are tied with Detroit in the same category with five giveaways.


Now I'm just not sure how a big, tall receiver is going to help with that.

We need to

a) get better up front
b) take better care of the football


Well Vick missed 3 TD passes with wild throws. A bigger WR gives him more of a margin of error to make those throws. A 6-3 receiver comes down with the passes Maclin and Jackson missed in the endzone.

That said I agree, we need to get better up front, but we are without 4 of our 5 OL from last year due to injury.
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jets had one of the best Red zone Offenses last year, beside Plax we're a lot like them. I think beside Plax, they just executed simple plays.
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EaglesFan5-36-81


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
Jets had one of the best Red zone Offenses last year, beside Plax we're a lot like them. I think beside Plax, they just executed simple plays.


Their OL >>>>>>>>>>>>Our OL
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EaglesFan5-36-81 wrote:
RainbowCarebear wrote:
Jets had one of the best Red zone Offenses last year, beside Plax we're a lot like them. I think beside Plax, they just executed simple plays.


Their OL >>>>>>>>>>>>Our OL


For the moment, but our Red Zone was never really good.
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nlesthought


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
nlesthought wrote:
Phire wrote:
Having the best back in the league dictates coverages too.

It's all about execution.


Coverages are already limited in the RZ, so how does a RB dictate that?


I was going to re-word it, but nonetheless, coverage is limited but it's not that limited. The redzone is a large area horizontally, just not vertically.

The redzone, being a short distance, also hurts defenses because sometimes making the first guy miss is all it takes to sneak in.

That's McCoy. If he makes one guy miss in the redzone it's over. So teams stack the box.

Teams are still blitzing Vick which is displacing coverage guys too.


When your blitzing you're taught to squat (jump) on routes especially in the RZ because of the short field. They know the ball is supposed to come out quicker. Especially vs our WRs/TEs who can't get off the line nor have great ball skills when the ball is in the air. If you have a WR with ball skills you can throw it to the back of the end zone and he'll win those 1s on 1s.

Regardless the RB no matter how shifty (or how much he dances) doesn't dictate coverage. Sorry you're wrong. And stacking the box is pending the offensive formation of course. The routes McCoy ran Sunday (texas, swing, etc) are supposed to help out but you think he would've scored on that one that he dropped?
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nlesthought


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Brent Celek on Redzone:

Quote:
"We should score on four of those possessions," said Celek. "It's inexcusable. It comes down to execution and we're just not executing."


Quote:
The Eagles, who led the league in red-zone turnovers last season, are tied with Detroit in the same category with five giveaways.


Now I'm just not sure how a big, tall receiver is going to help with that.

We need to

a) get better up front
b) take better care of the football


What do you expect him to say we need a better TE in here to take my spot? We need bigger WRs Nobody is going to say the playcalling they are on the inside. Nobody is going to risk their roster spot by starting a mutiny.
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nlesthought


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EaglesFan5-36-81 wrote:
Phire wrote:
Brent Celek on Redzone:

Quote:
"We should score on four of those possessions," said Celek. "It's inexcusable. It comes down to execution and we're just not executing."


Quote:
The Eagles, who led the league in red-zone turnovers last season, are tied with Detroit in the same category with five giveaways.


Now I'm just not sure how a big, tall receiver is going to help with that.

We need to

a) get better up front
b) take better care of the football


Well Vick missed 3 TD passes with wild throws. A bigger WR gives him more of a margin of error to make those throws. A 6-3 receiver comes down with the passes Maclin and Jackson missed in the endzone.

That said I agree, we need to get better up front, but we are without 4 of our 5 OL from last year due to injury.


This makes it sound a lot more Vick's issue rather than the personnel he's throwing to. The pass to Djax wasn't touched by a defender and Djax lost sight of it when the defender ran by. The pass to Celek was borderline pass interference with the hold who prohibited him from getting two hands up. The pass to Maclin looked a lot like he airmailed it but after watching it several times Maclin missed timed his jump as well.

Where's the pick plays? run Djax behind the ref like NO did. Where's the deception? Graham was wide open after selling run block. How do you leave him open like that?
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
but our Red Zone was never really good.


Yes. Back when people begged for the Eagles to draft a big running back year after year but now we all know that it was the terrible coaching that was to blame as well.
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Broadway Joe


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is it not on the coaching staff? Red Zone struggles have been one of the constants with Reid. It goes way back.

You could also say its execution, because players are not executing the horrible play calling by the coaching staff.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shady got 1 carry in the red zone in goal-to-go situations on MNF. That is a play calling issue, and a reoccurring theme with this team (he had 14 red zone TDs last year iIrc).

But not having our best O-lineman out there make it difficult to execute, as well.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having the best back change the way teams cover us, yes.
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