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PARROTHEAD


Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
PARROTHEAD wrote:
Over 9 games. This team has given up the 3rd highest amount of yards adv... IN HISTORY.

So in the history of the NFL game. Only 2 have given up more yards on adv than this team over a 9 game span.

Yes is was worth repeating like that to get over how severe the situation is.
will changing the defensive coaching change those results though? Honestly. IMO, I seriously doubt it because the same back up caliber players will be at ROLB and at every spot of the secondary.


I dont see it making it any worse.

Still got 5 NFCE games to play. I dont see things getting better.

How many injuries did the Giants get hit with last year. Especially in their secondary? And teams like the Eagles and Rams thats been hit with tons of defensive injuries.
I didnt see any of them being 3RD WORST IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME because of it.

When 3RD WORST IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME is being tossed around. Damn best believe its every aspect of the game, from coaching down, needing to be heavily addressed.
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21 ALL THE WAY


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PARROTHEAD wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
PARROTHEAD wrote:
Over 9 games. This team has given up the 3rd highest amount of yards adv... IN HISTORY.

So in the history of the NFL game. Only 2 have given up more yards on adv than this team over a 9 game span.

Yes is was worth repeating like that to get over how severe the situation is.
will changing the defensive coaching change those results though? Honestly. IMO, I seriously doubt it because the same back up caliber players will be at ROLB and at every spot of the secondary.


I dont see it making it any worse.

Still got 5 NFCE games to play. I dont see things getting better.

How many injuries did the Giants get hit with last year. Especially in their secondary? And teams like the Eagles and Rams thats been hit with tons of defensive injuries.
I didnt see any of them being 3RD WORST IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME because of it.

When 3RD WORST IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME is being tossed around. Damn best believe its every aspect of the game, from coaching down, needing to be heavily addressed.


EXACTLY. I LOVE THIS POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PARROTHEAD wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
PARROTHEAD wrote:
Over 9 games. This team has given up the 3rd highest amount of yards adv... IN HISTORY.

So in the history of the NFL game. Only 2 have given up more yards on adv than this team over a 9 game span.

Yes is was worth repeating like that to get over how severe the situation is.
will changing the defensive coaching change those results though? Honestly. IMO, I seriously doubt it because the same back up caliber players will be at ROLB and at every spot of the secondary.


I dont see it making it any worse.

Still got 5 NFCE games to play. I dont see things getting better.

How many injuries did the Giants get hit with last year. Especially in their secondary? And teams like the Eagles and Rams thats been hit with tons of defensive injuries.
I didnt see any of them being 3RD WORST IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME because of it.

When 3RD WORST IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME is being tossed around. Damn best believe its every aspect of the game, from coaching down, needing to be heavily addressed.
the giants have been built through the draft since Parcells was the coach in the early 80s. We just started focusing on that when Shan/Allen took over 3 years ago. We don't have the depth and foundation the giants organization has had over the past decade.

The eagles defense sucks by the way. Did you watch the saints game tonight?

Our secondary played better vs the saints than the eagles did tonight. What was different about that game?

Oh yeah that's right, week 1 Carriker, Orakpo and Fletcher were healthy.

Surprise. Think not
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This franchise will never be a winner if we don't stick to a plan!!! And you can quote me on that fellas.

IMO this is the worst day for our forum since 09. I am extremely disappointed right now.
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PARROTHEAD


Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
the giants have been built through the draft since Parcells was the coach in the early 80s. We just started focusing on that when Shan/Allen took over 3 years ago. We don't have the depth and foundation the giants organization has had over the past decade.

The eagles defense sucks by the way. Did you watch the saints game tonight?

Our secondary played better vs the saints than the eagles did tonight. What was different about that game?

Oh yeah that's right, week 1 Carriker, Orakpo and Fletcher were healthy.

Surprise. Think not


Youre just trying to argue to be arguing now.
Who cares about the Saints comparison. The Eagles still arnt 3rd worst in the history of the game.

We need coaching changes, depth built, and starting quality talent gathered.
A team doesnt become that terrible without it being all aspects of the game.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PARROTHEAD wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
the giants have been built through the draft since Parcells was the coach in the early 80s. We just started focusing on that when Shan/Allen took over 3 years ago. We don't have the depth and foundation the giants organization has had over the past decade.

The eagles defense sucks by the way. Did you watch the saints game tonight?

Our secondary played better vs the saints than the eagles did tonight. What was different about that game?

Oh yeah that's right, week 1 Carriker, Orakpo and Fletcher were healthy.

Surprise. Think not


Youre just trying to argue to be arguing now.
Who cares about the Saints comparison. The Eagles still arnt 3rd worst in the history of the game.

We need coaching changes, depth built, and starting quality talent gathered.
A team doesnt become that terrible without it being all aspects of the game.
im not arguing to argue. Every one of my posts have been backed up with factual information.

A month ago, this entire forum agreed this organization was headed in the right direction. Now all of a sudden we aren't?

I've stayed consistent in my feelings the past few years in my beliefs. I said it'd take time to rebuild this franchise. Mike Shanahan has said that. We had to rebuild every single piece of the organization and every part of the aging 2008 and 2009 teams.

That takes time. Please, please show patience. Stay the course. We are headed in the right direction, I promise everyone in the forum that. We are close to being special next year or the year after. If we make drastic changes in what we are doing, we will be starting over again. We would be taking a step back, not a step forward.

No one said this rebuild would happen over night. Shanahan and Allen have a 5 year plan and deals for a reason. He told Snyder to not hire him if he wouldn't give him that time.

We need to stand by our coaches and continue building this team.
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PARROTHEAD wrote:
How many injuries did the Giants get hit with last year. Especially in their secondary?


Injuries or not, they still had much more talent and it's a heck of a lot easier to deal with injuries when you can just move your Safety Antre Rolle to play corner as the Giants did last season.

What's more, the Giants defense did in fact suck most of last year and were one of the worst ranked in the league.

That Giants defense last year lived and died by the pass rush. If they struggled when say Osi Umenyiora missed games how on earth do you expect an already more limited Redskins team not to struggle with Orakpo out?

Besides it just seems a huge jump to me to note bad plays by the secondary and then immediately blame that on the secondary coach. That jump doesn't seem justified at all, especially give Morris' success in the past.
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PARROTHEAD


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:

Besides it just seems a huge jump to me to note bad plays by the secondary and then immediately blame that on the secondary coach. That jump doesn't seem justified at all, especially give Morris' success in the past.


I was blaming everybody involved. Coaching, players, depth. The works.
A team doesnt become the 3rd worst passing D in history without it being every aspect. It takes teamwork to be great, and it takes teamwork to be that much beyond pathetic.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
PARROTHEAD wrote:
How many injuries did the Giants get hit with last year. Especially in their secondary?


Injuries or not, they still had much more talent and it's a heck of a lot easier to deal with injuries when you can just move your Safety Antre Rolle to play corner as the Giants did last season.

What's more, the Giants defense did in fact suck most of last year and were one of the worst ranked in the league.

That Giants defense last year lived and died by the pass rush. If they struggled when say Osi Umenyiora missed games how on earth do you expect an already more limited Redskins team not to struggle with Orakpo out?

Besides it just seems a huge jump to me to note bad plays by the secondary and then immediately blame that on the secondary coach. That jump doesn't seem justified at all, especially give Morris' success in the past.
id say Morris is part of the problem. He's their positional coach. He needs to do better, the communication has been poor. They look lost sometimes, actually most times. It's on him because they don't seem prepared well, it's on the players also because they are missing assignments and having mental mistakes.

Just because Morris had success when he had a bunch of 1st round talent in his secondary years ago with Tampa doesn't mean he's a great coach. He got fired from Tampa last year because his D failed and he was supposed to be a great young D coach.

Don't get me wrong. I wish Morris would stay, I know we will improve in his second year as secondaries coach. I believe we will upgrade our talent in the secondary but he also has to coach better.

He's not totally innocent here either.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PARROTHEAD wrote:
I was blaming everybody involved. Coaching, players, depth. The works.
A team doesnt become the 3rd worst passing D in history without it being every aspect. It takes teamwork to be great, and it takes teamwork to be that much beyond pathetic.


We're still just past the half-way point of the season though. A bit early to be citing records that may not stand-up.
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Sassan11


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
This franchise will never be a winner if we don't stick to a plan!!! And you can quote me on that fellas.

IMO this is the worst day for our forum since 09. I am extremely disappointed right now.


Turtle what you fail to realize is that the plan was stupid from the beginning. A plan should start to show results by now. The problem is one personnel but two the defensive coaches we have hired. We had a chance at Phillips and we didn't take it. All he did was improve the worst defense into a top 5 defense in 1 year. We had a chance at Rob Ryan and once again we passed. Haslett is not the answer. Even if we get better players we won't get the most out of them with Haslett as our coordinator.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sassan11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
This franchise will never be a winner if we don't stick to a plan!!! And you can quote me on that fellas.

IMO this is the worst day for our forum since 09. I am extremely disappointed right now.


Turtle what you fail to realize is that the plan was stupid from the beginning. A plan should start to show results by now. The problem is one personnel but two the defensive coaches we have hired. We had a chance at Phillips and we didn't take it. All he did was improve the worst defense into a top 5 defense in 1 year. We had a chance at Rob Ryan and once again we passed. Haslett is not the answer. Even if we get better players we won't get the most out of them with Haslett as our coordinator.
well I just don't agree. If we had only average secondary play and tackling, we would have beaten the giants and rams. We'd be 5-4 right now, but our secondary was going to be average at best before the suspension of TJax and the injury to Meriweather add to that the injuries up front. Then you put all that in and it exposes the teams biggest weakness, greatly!

I'd like to see what Hasslet can do when he has starting caliber talent in his secondary. Right now, out of our starters he only has one guy worth starting and even that's as a fringe starter and his name is Chris Wilson.

How can anyone field a good secondary with these scrubs?
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Turtle is going to completely overlook Haslett's past failures so we can see what he can do with talent. He's an god awful coordinator and has been basically everywhere he's gone with the exception of the Steelers when he took over a defense that was top 5 and ruined there rating every year he coached there. It's remarkable the way you defend guys like Haslett, Moss, Jason Campbell and so many other underachievers. I'll never understand your infatuation with these type of players and coaches?
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kerrdawg


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have had a question mark after the topic. I don't personally advocate firing a coach mid-season. I just wanted to point out the fact that the secondary has played much worse then last year with basically the same level of talent.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Apparently Turtle is going to completely overlook Haslett's past failures so we can see what he can do with talent. He's an god awful coordinator and has been basically everywhere he's gone with the exception of the Steelers when he took over a defense that was top 5 and ruined there rating every year he coached there. It's remarkable the way you defend guys like Haslett, Moss, Jason Campbell and so many other underachievers. I'll never understand your infatuation with these type of players and coaches?
moss is an underachiever? He's one of the best wrs we've had in our history lavar.

Jason Campbell was never given the wr talent to work with or a good OL in front of him when he was about to hit his prime, we dumped him. He also had more OC's in his time period as our qb than any other redskins qb in history in the same time period. That matters. His coach when he was entering his prime? The great Jim Zorn. I mean really Lavar. Need I say more here?

Hasslett knows what he's doing. He has a lot of experience, what you aren't doing is looking at the talent level on those Ds. Outside of taking over an Aging D for the steelers, that then had to be rebuilt he has had little talent to work with on defense everywhere he went.

Go head look it up. Facts are facts, he never had a stacked unit on D.
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