Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Bengals #1 problem
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cincinnati Bengals
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 5561
Location: Richmond, IN
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
Another thing, why do we insist on putting Hawkins in the slot? I would have no problem with him lining up in the backfield from time to time like Harvin does or like Randall Cobb does for GB. Those teams ensure that their playmakers touch the ball 15+ times a game by getting creative with them, and we seem to be 5 years behind most teams offensively every year. It is as if we are watching NFL films greatest hits from the early 2000's to make our play book. Why not try to innovate more?


Sanu lined up there regularly the past two games, but more against the Giants than Broncos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theJ


Moderator
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 18666
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
Carson4MVP wrote:
Another thing, why do we insist on putting Hawkins in the slot? I would have no problem with him lining up in the backfield from time to time like Harvin does or like Randall Cobb does for GB. Those teams ensure that their playmakers touch the ball 15+ times a game by getting creative with them, and we seem to be 5 years behind most teams offensively every year. It is as if we are watching NFL films greatest hits from the early 2000's to make our play book. Why not try to innovate more?


Sanu lined up there regularly the past two games, but more against the Giants than Broncos.

Yeah i think the creativity is fine. There does need to be more of a mentality to get the ball to the playmakers though. The running game is clearly toast, so utilize more short passing behind the LOS. More screens to the WR's like Hawkins, more handoffs to WR's on sweeps, things like that.

We see some of those things every week, problem is the ball is going to the wrong guys (Green-Ellis, Leonard, etc). Do those things, but concentrate on getting it to the guys who are making plays.
_________________


Don't follow your passion, take your passion with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
THE DUKE


Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 15635
Location: Centerville, OH
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly think we should be using Sanu in the backfield more. He has more instincts with the ball in his hands than any of the RB's.
_________________

-There are no men like me, only me.
-"Our life is what our thoughts make it" - Marcus Aurelius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jason_Bengal_Fl


Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 3985
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE DUKE wrote:
I honestly think we should be using Sanu in the backfield more. He has more instincts with the ball in his hands than any of the RB's.


I'd like to see Hawk get some action back there.
_________________
Early guesses on potential 2015 Draft Needs: MLB or WLB, LT, TE. If not picking in the 20s then QB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3247
Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
Everytime he has to face a tougher defense, he fails.


A teams failure to win is down to multiple facets, not least the defence; and Andy has had to contend with heavy pressure up the middle and being unable to step into his throws. QB's get the glory when a team wins and the fallout when a team loses. This thread was all about this teams biggest weakness, and Dalton is a long ways from being that. 1) Running game, 2) secondary. and 3) LB's are the correct answers IMO.

Carson4MVP wrote:
He doesn't have the talent to beat a top defense with his arm.
Complete BS IMO.

Carson4MVP wrote:
As to who I would replace him with? It is hard to say FA wise because you never know who will be re-signed or franchised. But with draft picks, take your pick of the rookie QB's next season. There is probably 10 coming out that have more TALENT then Dalton. I wouldn't be against taking a QB in the first or second and letting him learn for a couple years from Dalton and letting him leave after his contract is up, or trading him for a 2nd or 3rd after next year.
Wow. Never thought I read this on a 'Bengal' site. Ten guys eh ? Lets have some names. Are you suggesting we trade up to go get Geno Smith or Barkley ? Who are the other 8 guys ? When you mean 'talent', presumably you are suggesting arm strength ? There's more to being a good NFL QB than a rocket arm, and in IMO Andy scores high in all other areas.

I'll say this about Dalton; lots of folks out there seem to forget where we were a little over a year ago where Palmer jacked it in, and I reckon the Bengals FO like what he has done so far, and will offer Andy a big contract before too long; (after we've taken care of Atkins, Smith, MJ93 and AJ)......
_________________
" Democracy is a system where two idiots can out-vote a genius..........."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 5561
Location: Richmond, IN
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunlap will score big as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 1674
Location: Hilliard
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
Carson4MVP wrote:
Everytime he has to face a tougher defense, he fails.


A teams failure to win is down to multiple facets, not least the defence; and Andy has had to contend with heavy pressure up the middle and being unable to step into his throws. QB's get the glory when a team wins and the fallout when a team loses. This thread was all about this teams biggest weakness, and Dalton is a long ways from being that. 1) Running game, 2) secondary. and 3) LB's are the correct answers IMO.

Carson4MVP wrote:
He doesn't have the talent to beat a top defense with his arm.
Complete BS IMO.

Carson4MVP wrote:
As to who I would replace him with? It is hard to say FA wise because you never know who will be re-signed or franchised. But with draft picks, take your pick of the rookie QB's next season. There is probably 10 coming out that have more TALENT then Dalton. I wouldn't be against taking a QB in the first or second and letting him learn for a couple years from Dalton and letting him leave after his contract is up, or trading him for a 2nd or 3rd after next year.
Wow. Never thought I read this on a 'Bengal' site. Ten guys eh ? Lets have some names. Are you suggesting we trade up to go get Geno Smith or Barkley ? Who are the other 8 guys ? When you mean 'talent', presumably you are suggesting arm strength ? There's more to being a good NFL QB than a rocket arm, and in IMO Andy scores high in all other areas.

I'll say this about Dalton; lots of folks out there seem to forget where we were a little over a year ago where Palmer jacked it in, and I reckon the Bengals FO like what he has done so far, and will offer Andy a big contract before too long; (after we've taken care of Atkins, Smith, MJ93 and AJ)......


Alright... I will try this 1 more time. I NEVER SAID DALTON WAS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM. Clearly he isn't. I just said he doesn't have the talent level to overcome our weaknesses. I understand, when a team loses, the whole team loses. But he is a completely different quarterback in big games and not for the better. Yes he can throw for 4 TD's against a depleted Giants team that needed a bye week worse than any team I have ever seen. But where was that against Baltimore or Pittsburgh this year? Or last year?

Game managers can certainly win a super bowl and there is nothing wrong with a great TEAM having a game manager for a QB, but we are not a great TEAM. I am a lifelong Bengals and Reds fan, maybe because of this I am a bit of a cynic, but I do not "drink the Kool-aid just because I am a fan. I can keep an unbiased opinion on my team and the players that play for them.

I am pretty certain that Jeff Blake could come out of retirement right now and lead AJ Green on a deep route better than Dalton. Have you ever seen him hit AJ in stride? Every deep pass I have ever seen he has to stop and come back for. Now because AJ is a playmaker, he usually makes the play, but that doesn't make it a great throw by Dalton.

You are certainly allowed to have your opinion, if you think Dalton has the arm to carry us to victory against a top defense, that is great. He just has never done it in the last 2 years that I have watched him play. As for which College QB's have more talent... Barkley, Smith, T. Bray, T. Wilson, L. Jones, L. Thomas, T. Boyd, E Manuel... I can keep going if you would like. Dalton is an ok NFL QB and a good game manager. His talent level just tops out with us being 7-9 to 9-7 every year. Next year when we have a weaker schedule we may be closer to 9-7 with him again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3247
Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
Dalton is an ok NFL QB and a good game manager. His talent level just tops out with us being 7-9 to 9-7 every year. Next year when we have a weaker schedule we may be closer to 9-7 with him again.


After 20 years of woeful, losing ineptitude as a franchise under Mike Brown, if Dalton gives us 9-7 and on the edge of play-off contention for the next ten years, I'd take it now in a heartbeat.
_________________
" Democracy is a system where two idiots can out-vote a genius..........."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 5561
Location: Richmond, IN
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted parts of this in another thread, but it belongs in this one as well. Time to play nice again Laughing

carsonMVP I get what you are saying. he is not elite. i agree. he doesnt't have a cannon tied to his right shoulder (he still underthrows AJ all the time... just last week green had to STOP AND WAIT for the long TD pass on the first drive). But I do think he definitely has all the other skills and qualities you look for in a QB. Are there college QBs with better arms? Of course. Would you have prefered Mallett? I wouldn't. Given time and a decent pocket, Dalton makes plays. Forced to scramble, he can as well.

let me put it another way. I would prefer dalton and his qualities over Palmer's off the charts measurables, because at the end of the day palmer couldn't lead this team out of a wet paper bag. And not unlike Dalton, he had his best years when the oline was at it's best.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theJ


Moderator
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 18666
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
Posted parts of this in another thread, but it belongs in this one as well. Time to play nice again Laughing

We have too much nice in this forum. The arguing was fun for a change.

I get it too. Dalton hasn't always played well. But i will continue to maintain that it's difficult to give him too much grief until we see the line perform better in front of him. It's no coincidence that he finally played well against a good defense (Giants) when he wasn't pressured all game long. He's played poorly when he's seen consistent pressure through the middle. Most of his INT's occurred while being hit simultaneous to the throw.

Put another way, playing QB is hard. Playing QB while always stepping into a 250-300 lb behemoth on the defense is harder.
_________________


Don't follow your passion, take your passion with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 1674
Location: Hilliard
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
INbengalfan wrote:
Posted parts of this in another thread, but it belongs in this one as well. Time to play nice again Laughing

We have too much nice in this forum. The arguing was fun for a change.

I get it too. Dalton hasn't always played well. But i will continue to maintain that it's difficult to give him too much grief until we see the line perform better in front of him. It's no coincidence that he finally played well against a good defense (Giants) when he wasn't pressured all game long. He's played poorly when he's seen consistent pressure through the middle. Most of his INT's occurred while being hit simultaneous to the throw.

Put another way, playing QB is hard. Playing QB while always stepping into a 250-300 lb behemoth on the defense is harder.


Are we watching the same Giants? Last year the Giants had a good defense, this year they have been TOASTED by everybody. Even AJ Green called them out for being terrible and with them being motivated, he toasted them... They are one of the worst 4-5 defenses in the league this year. They make our defense look like the great wall of China.

As for my criticism of Dalton, it is not just his arm strength, moreso it is his decision making. He is leading the league in pick 6's since coming into the league, and his interceptions are not coming off of poorly underthrown deep passes, strangely enough, those are usually completed... They are coming inside of the opponents redzone and at critical points in a game when you CANNOT turn the ball over.

I am trying to give the guy the benefit of doubt, but he continuously proves me right over and over again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theJ


Moderator
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 18666
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
theJ wrote:
INbengalfan wrote:
Posted parts of this in another thread, but it belongs in this one as well. Time to play nice again Laughing

We have too much nice in this forum. The arguing was fun for a change.

I get it too. Dalton hasn't always played well. But i will continue to maintain that it's difficult to give him too much grief until we see the line perform better in front of him. It's no coincidence that he finally played well against a good defense (Giants) when he wasn't pressured all game long. He's played poorly when he's seen consistent pressure through the middle. Most of his INT's occurred while being hit simultaneous to the throw.

Put another way, playing QB is hard. Playing QB while always stepping into a 250-300 lb behemoth on the defense is harder.


Are we watching the same Giants? Last year the Giants had a good defense, this year they have been TOASTED by everybody. Even AJ Green called them out for being terrible and with them being motivated, he toasted them... They are one of the worst 4-5 defenses in the league this year. They make our defense look like the great wall of China.

As for my criticism of Dalton, it is not just his arm strength, moreso it is his decision making. He is leading the league in pick 6's since coming into the league, and his interceptions are not coming off of poorly underthrown deep passes, strangely enough, those are usually completed... They are coming inside of the opponents redzone and at critical points in a game when you CANNOT turn the ball over.

I am trying to give the guy the benefit of doubt, but he continuously proves me right over and over again.

I'd be interested to know how many of those pick 6's came while being hit from the blindside. I can remember at least two this year. The one against Washington and the one against Baltimore (Ed Reed i think). Most of his picks come when being hit.

As for the Giants, they do some things well that cause Dalton problems. Namely generating pressure and getting sacks/picks. They're 10th in sacks (25), 2nd in picks (17), 3rd in forced fumbles (10), and have two defensive touchdowns this year. Those are good numbers. They're a "good" defense. Not great, but they're disruptive.
_________________


Don't follow your passion, take your passion with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 1674
Location: Hilliard
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
I'd be interested to know how many of those pick 6's came while being hit from the blindside. I can remember at least two this year. The one against Washington and the one against Baltimore (Ed Reed i think). Most of his picks come when being hit.

As for the Giants, they do some things well that cause Dalton problems. Namely generating pressure and getting sacks/picks. They're 10th in sacks (25), 2nd in picks (17), 3rd in forced fumbles (10), and have two defensive touchdowns this year. Those are good numbers. They're a "good" defense. Not great, but they're disruptive.


I am not sure how many he was hit on, 1-2 is bad luck, but when you continuously do it to the point you lead the league in them, theres a little more to it. Even if he were hit on every one of them, you have to feel the pressure better. Hell, even if he completed the WAS pass that was intercepted in the end zone, it was still going to be a guaranteed safety.

The same Giants defense is allowing QB's to complete over 65% of their passes against them and have a passer rating of 105. Both are bottom 5 in the league against the pass.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3247
Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
Alright... I will try this 1 more time. I NEVER SAID DALTON WAS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM. Clearly he isn't. I just said he doesn't have the talent level to overcome our weaknesses. I understand, when a team loses, the whole team loses. But he is a completely different quarterback in big games and not for the better. Yes he can throw for 4 TD's against a depleted Giants team that needed a bye week worse than any team I have ever seen. But where was that against Baltimore or Pittsburgh this year? Or last year?


Alright..... I will try this 1 more time.

Have we all forgotten where we were just over a year ago ?

Last year, play-offs. The knock on Dalton and the Bengals is they can't beat play-off calibre teams.

Last week, they pulp the defending world-champs, the clear leader @ 6-3 in the NFCE, a definite play-off calibre team. Check.

Plenty more challenges ahead for Dalton then, not least it seems convincing many Bengal fans with short memories.
_________________
" Democracy is a system where two idiots can out-vote a genius..........."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 1674
Location: Hilliard
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:

Alright..... I will try this 1 more time.

Have we all forgotten where we were just over a year ago ?

Last year, play-offs. The knock on Dalton and the Bengals is they can't beat play-off calibre teams.

Last week, they pulp the defending world-champs, the clear leader @ 6-3 in the NFCE, a definite play-off calibre team. Check.

Plenty more challenges ahead for Dalton then, not least it seems convincing many Bengal fans with short memories.


We obviously weren't as bad off as it seems, as we were able to make the playoffs with a rookie QB.

Yes last week we were able to muster up and beat the "ALMIGHTY SUPERBOWL CHAMP NEW YORK GIANTS", however, you are lying to yourself if you think that is the same Giants team that won the super bowl last year or the team that took the field even the first 8 weeks of the season. They were clearly running on fumes from playing 10 weeks prior with no bye week. That Giants defense had clearly lost a step this season and if you can't be honest with yourself about that, I think we should just agree to disagree and let it go.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cincinnati Bengals All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group