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Bengals #1 problem
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INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 5560
Location: Richmond, IN
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
I don't get this.

Teams whose build the offense around the running games tend to suck. Look at todays QBs. The yards and touchdowns that are being thrown for. This is a passing league. You score the most points by throwing the ball.

You guys have the best receiver in the game; the most dangerous weapon since prime Randy Moss. Your biggest problem is always going to be that he is not getting the football enough. You think BJGE is the reason you guys are 3-5? He isn't a factor in your offense, good or bad. Your offense is built to run through A.J. You have a decent offensive line, a small, speedy wide out in Hawkins, some big bodied guys in Sanu and Jones, and a possession guy in Gresham. And of course, you have A.J. Andy Dalton is the "problem". He has played well for himself for times, but even in his good games, it is so true. I am not being some AJ homer, either. I meant it when I sat it

Though your O.C's. inability to get Green the ball enough (idk about #s, most games he gets 1, or 2 max, looks in the red zone. He gets 1, or 2 max, deep balls thrown. Unacceptable) is a huge problem, nobody caps your teams offensive potential moreso than your Q.B. His audibles in games never seem to work. He stares down receivers quite frequently. He throws ball far too soon on way too many plays (does't wait for the play to develop). He can be grossly inaccurate. He is a game manager who is over performing thanks to the ridiculous talent he throws to.

I tell you, if the Cincinnati Bengals had a real field general; an intelligent, tall, cannon armed pocket passer, they would be unstoppable. Had Peyton Manning signed with you guys, you would have the leagues best offense. Dalton is a poor mans Drew Brees, playing an offense based around his limitations. If you gus could grab a real legitimate thrower, a qb who could match Greens talent, you would instantly become a top 3 team in the AFC.


If all you ever watch are highlights, this is the conclusion most would come to. But spend a little more time watching the oline, specifically the center. Dalton continually has pressure in his face coming straight up the middle. You are right about Manning... but 28 or so other teams would say the same thing. It's just that Manning would quietly go to management and get a new center.

Most pass first teams still have a RB who has to be respected at the very least. Teams do not fear our running game with Scott out, so they triple cover AJ and force others to beat them. early on, our receivers won those battles. Lately, not so much.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
I don't get this.

Teams whose build the offense around the running games tend to suck. Look at todays QBs. The yards and touchdowns that are being thrown for. This is a passing league. You score the most points by throwing the ball.

You guys have the best receiver in the game; the most dangerous weapon since prime Randy Moss. Your biggest problem is always going to be that he is not getting the football enough. You think BJGE is the reason you guys are 3-5? He isn't a factor in your offense, good or bad. Your offense is built to run through A.J. You have a decent offensive line, a small, speedy wide out in Hawkins, some big bodied guys in Sanu and Jones, and a possession guy in Gresham. And of course, you have A.J. Andy Dalton is the "problem". He has played well for himself for times, but even in his good games, it is so true. I am not being some AJ homer, either. I meant it when I sat it

Though your O.C's. inability to get Green the ball enough (idk about #s, most games he gets 1, or 2 max, looks in the red zone. He gets 1, or 2 max, deep balls thrown. Unacceptable) is a huge problem, nobody caps your teams offensive potential moreso than your Q.B. His audibles in games never seem to work. He stares down receivers quite frequently. He throws ball far too soon on way too many plays (does't wait for the play to develop). He can be grossly inaccurate. He is a game manager who is over performing thanks to the ridiculous talent he throws to.

I tell you, if the Cincinnati Bengals had a real field general; an intelligent, tall, cannon armed pocket passer, they would be unstoppable. Had Peyton Manning signed with you guys, you would have the leagues best offense. Dalton is a poor mans Drew Brees, playing an offense based around his limitations. If you gus could grab a real legitimate thrower, a qb who could match Greens talent, you would instantly become a top 3 team in the AFC.


Not saying we need to build our offense around the running game, just saying we need our running game to improve. Teams play two deep safeties all the time and double AJ, why? Because they don't fear our running game at all...
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skywindO2 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
Should see some Orlovsky vs Manziel this week in the battle of "who's less aware of their surroundings"

Orlovsky has too much experience here. Manziel doesn't stand a chance.
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johndeere1707


Joined: 01 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the main problem right now is at C. Jeff Faine is terribad. I would rather slide Clint Boling over to C and put Anthony Collins in at LG
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johndeere1707


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And NBT, even if Dalton is the problem he is going no where for a long time. If u show Mike Brown u are somewhat capable u are in
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theJ


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what the expectations should be when the line is one of the worst in the league. BJGE always sees his first defender in the backfield or right at the line. He can run through an open hole. There just aren't any.

Same with Dalton. He plays well when he has a clean pocket. Most of his picks can be attributed to being hit while throwing, or not having even 2ft to step forward while throwing.

Fix the line, and this offense gets a whole lot better.

(and ps, it's not just faine. Yeah he's been bad, but most everyone on that line is making 2-3 mental mistakes per game. That's at least 10 backward plays per game. Can't have that.)
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johndeere1707


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
I'm not sure what the expectations should be when the line is one of the worst in the league. BJGE always sees his first defender in the backfield or right at the line. He can run through an open hole. There just aren't any.

Same with Dalton. He plays well when he has a clean pocket. Most of his picks can be attributed to being hit while throwing, or not having even 2ft to step forward while throwing.

Fix the line, and this offense gets a whole lot better.

(and ps, it's not just faine. Yeah he's been bad, but most everyone on that line is making 2-3 mental mistakes per game. That's at least 10 backward plays per game. Can't have that.)
alot of it due to Faine sucking so bad and everyone trying to pick up his slack
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Beck Bristow


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Center doe need to be the "brains" of the oline. If he isn't getting it done, the rest of the line struggles.
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE DUKE wrote:
Jeff Faine is the biggest problem with the run game. He is too weak for the power DT's and too slow for the speed DT's.

I agree BJGE is limited and should only be the lower portion of a platoon, but I think Faine is the bigger issue. Hopefully Cook is back to 100% next year and we get somebody like Ed Lacey in rd 2 in the draft.


This.

Faine and Robinson are just getting handled up front; but I'm not impressed with BJGE at all. He started off showing some real burst but thats gone and he's making Benson look good right now. Running the ball well is obviously a team effort, and we can't get it done right now.

How smart a decision was it looking back now to pass on taking Doug Martin, like many of us smart-a$$es wanted ?
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
Fix the line, and this offense gets a whole lot better.


.......Is correct, but lets not forget that the last Steelers SB win was achieved with what by popular concensus was a very poor o-line........
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johndeere1707 wrote:
Yeah the main problem right now is at C. Jeff Faine is terribad. I would rather slide Clint Boling over to C and put Anthony Collins in at LG


Makes sense to me.....

How are we rating Travelle Wharton right now ? Assuming he and Cook get healthy, are we good to go next year, or do we take a Alex Mack/Maurkice Pouncey type of lynchpin next year high in the draft.

Looks like we have lots of holes to fill with the draft next year; but if were saying the running game need fixing big time as #1 priority, do we take RB-OC-OG 123 next April ? We have more chance of getting a good guy with the extra OAK pick.
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johndeere1707


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No LB and S are bigger needs
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.......
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Last edited by LondonBengal on Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Dalton is the "problem".


Dalton throws for 4 TD's, no INT's today, in a 31-13 beat down of the defending World Champs. Andy is on pace for 4000+ yards to easily pass last years Pro Bowl year, and possibly beat some all-time club passing records.

Dalton sure didn't look like a 'problem' today.

'NBT', if you think Dalton is such a problem, would you like to name a quarterback in the draft or on the FA list to go after who is likely to surpass Dalton next year for us ?
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Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Dalton is the "problem".


Dalton throws for 4 TD's, no INT's today, in a 31-13 beat down of the defending World Champs. Andy is on pace for 4000+ yards to easily pass last years Pro Bowl year, and possibly beat some all-time club passing records.

Dalton sure didn't look like a 'problem' today.

'NBT', if you think Dalton is such a problem, would you like to name a quarterback in the draft or on the FA list to go after who is likely to surpass Dalton next year for us ?


It is easy to take his best game of the year and say he isn't the problem. But, he really hasn't been the solution either. Before today's game, he was 24th in the league in total QBR. Hell even after today's "amazing" game against the almighty Giants D, he moved up to 18th... Not really lighting the world on fire, he is just ahead of the mighty Sam Bradford and the infallible Christian Ponder.

If we do not have a dominant QB, you have to be dominant in every other facet of the game. Any other team in playoff contention has a QB in the top 10 of the league, or are damn good everywhere else. To be honest, we are a long, long way from being in Super Bowl contention.

It is impossible to look at our team and say that it is just one thing or another, as we have many holes. But a team with lots of issues, can still win and win regularly if they have a great QB. Look at Indianapolis, Luck carries them to victory after victory with the same team that won only 2 games last year. A QB can cover up many issues, however Andy Dalton, just does not have the ability to cover up any other issues, even with a great deal of weapons around him.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
LondonBengal wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Dalton is the "problem".


Dalton throws for 4 TD's, no INT's today, in a 31-13 beat down of the defending World Champs. Andy is on pace for 4000+ yards to easily pass last years Pro Bowl year, and possibly beat some all-time club passing records.

Dalton sure didn't look like a 'problem' today.

'NBT', if you think Dalton is such a problem, would you like to name a quarterback in the draft or on the FA list to go after who is likely to surpass Dalton next year for us ?


It is easy to take his best game of the year and say he isn't the problem. But, he really hasn't been the solution either. Before today's game, he was 24th in the league in total QBR. Hell even after today's "amazing" game against the almighty Giants D, he moved up to 18th... Not really lighting the world on fire, he is just ahead of the mighty Sam Bradford and the infallible Christian Ponder.

If we do not have a dominant QB, you have to be dominant in every other facet of the game. Any other team in playoff contention has a QB in the top 10 of the league, or are damn good everywhere else. To be honest, we are a long, long way from being in Super Bowl contention.

It is impossible to look at our team and say that it is just one thing or another, as we have many holes. But a team with lots of issues, can still win and win regularly if they have a great QB. Look at Indianapolis, Luck carries them to victory after victory with the same team that won only 2 games last year. A QB can cover up many issues, however Andy Dalton, just does not have the ability to cover up any other issues, even with a great deal of weapons around him.

I don't know about a "great deal" of weapons. AJ obviously is great, and Hawkins you can design some touches for, but beyond that the cupboard isn't stocked. Everyone else is too green to perform consistently. Sanu showed some great promise yesterday. Binns has gone completely AWOL, and Tate, well he still sucks. There aren't any options at RB.

The one good positive to take from this game is that the line played much better with Robinson in there. Given this is his second game starting, i was satisfied enough that i'll be upset if Faine gets another start for this team again.
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