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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 19755
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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 Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgSoldier wrote: |
I would argue there are more 34 pass rushers available than 43 ones in this draft. |
Most I think could play either, especially the top pass rush guys. I'm not opposed to playing some sort of hybrid, where we have a guy who can pass rush from the 2 point stance. Its just the idea of transitioning the defense entirely back to the 3-4 that makes me weary.
Bad defenses rarely become good just by switching schemes.
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Drew_Carey
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Posts: 1478
Location: Seattle - Cleveland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Estonianzulu wrote: | | DawgSoldier wrote: |
I would argue there are more 34 pass rushers available than 43 ones in this draft. |
Most I think could play either, especially the top pass rush guys. I'm not opposed to playing some sort of hybrid, where we have a guy who can pass rush from the 2 point stance. Its just the idea of transitioning the defense entirely back to the 3-4 that makes me weary.
Bad defenses rarely become good just by switching schemes. |
No to switching schemes... And No to a hybrid scheme as we still can play a 4-3 or a 3-4 effectively so would a hybrid work?
I agree that there are no top their 4-3 DEs in this draft class as most predicted. Most of the better ones are 3-4 size and seem to fit there better.
That kid from Oregon looks tempting but talk about a project player.... |
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Reginaldm9
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 1616
Location: Kent State University
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Y U NO PICK ME?
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ReggieCamp
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 8663
Location: Canonsburg, PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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^^^
Not sure if you're serious, but Andy Reid is not on Joe Banner's Christmas card list.
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Cleveland Browns: We put the fun in dysfunction.
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Reginaldm9
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
Posts: 1616
Location: Kent State University
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ReggieCamp wrote: | ^^^
Not sure if you're serious, but Andy Reid is not on Joe Banner's Christmas card list. |
Nah, I'm just looking for an excuse to post a Reid gif.
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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When our 34 scheme failed in the past it was because of terrible coaching(Romeo Crennel) and terrible talent(Roye, Washington, Fraser, Smith, McKinely, Peek, McGinest, Jackson, Davis) then when Mangini and Ryan got here the defense got better but we were older with Coleman, Barton and a declining Rogers.
It all comes down to coaching and talent. We have talent that can be successful in any scheme(Taylor, Rubin, Hughes, Winn, Rucker, Gocong, Sheard)
Rubin, Winn, Gocong, and Jackson all have experience in a 34 with Gocong being his best inside in the 34 and Jackson being at his worst but I don't think he is very good in the 43 either so he is a wash.
We obviously need to draft difference makers on defense regardless of scheme so basically it is going to depend on what players we draft and this year the elite guys seem to be best suited for 34 scheme(Lotulelei, Jones, Jordan, Moore, and Manti Teo)
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 19755
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: |
We obviously need to draft difference makers on defense regardless of scheme so basically it is going to depend on what players we draft and this year the elite guys seem to be best suited for 34 scheme(Lotulelei, Jones, Jordan, Moore, and Manti Teo) |
Outside of Jordan, I dont see any of those guys who wont play well in a 4-3.
As to having the talent to transition, if we are 24th and 21st in yards and scoring in a 4-3, do you think it'll improve by going to a 3-4?
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Estonianzulu wrote: | | KamTrus20 wrote: |
We obviously need to draft difference makers on defense regardless of scheme so basically it is going to depend on what players we draft and this year the elite guys seem to be best suited for 34 scheme(Lotulelei, Jones, Jordan, Moore, and Manti Teo) |
Outside of Jordan, I dont see any of those guys who wont play well in a 4-3.
As to having the talent to transition, if we are 24th and 21st in yards and scoring in a 4-3, do you think it'll improve by going to a 3-4? |
Talent is talent and it will perform regarless of scheme. Taylor, Rubin, Sheard, Winn, Hughes can play.
Its really no different than you saying Lotulelei, Jones, Moore and Teo would do well in a 43. You are right I won't deny that but if you are also saying they won't do well in a 34 then you're wrong.
I honestly don't care one way or the other what scheme we run going forward. I just think its very uneducated to just dismiss the 34 defense because we failed the last time.
I want the head coach to run the base defense he is most comfortable running and the defensive co-ordinator calling plays from the base defense he is most comfortable calling plays and I want the GM drafting for the base defense he is most comfortable drafting.
If we bring in guys who have been 34 guys their entire careers then I don't want us forcing a 43 on them and vice versa.
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 19755
Location: Middle of Nowhere VA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: |
Talent is talent and it will perform regarless of scheme. Taylor, Rubin, Sheard, Winn, Hughes can play. |
Don't disagree. Although Sheard has a lot to prove. My only concern is that I dont know how well they can play DE in a 3-4 defense. Im no expert, I just worry about a coach coming in shaking things up because players don't fit "his" system and then we have to start all over again.
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DaWg_LB.
Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4139
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Estonianzulu wrote: | | DawgSoldier wrote: |
I would argue there are more 34 pass rushers available than 43 ones in this draft. |
Most I think could play either, especially the top pass rush guys. I'm not opposed to playing some sort of hybrid, where we have a guy who can pass rush from the 2 point stance. Its just the idea of transitioning the defense entirely back to the 3-4 that makes me weary.
Bad defenses rarely become good just by switching schemes. |
Dosent Ray Horton run a hybrid defense?
The more I research Ray Horton.....the more I like this guy.....
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dawgdish
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 2238
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: |
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We'll have to see how the rest of the season plays out, but one thought for next H.C. is Bruce Arians. He has ties to Cleveland (our OC under Butch), knows the division and has a couple S.B. rings from his time in Pittsburgh, helped develop Big Ben Roofiesbuggerer and now Andrew Luck so can potentially help Weeden, and is getting some head coaching experience guiding the Colts while Pagano is in cancer treatment (and doing a good job thus far). The offense he runs is certainly different than the W.C., but arguably closer to what Weeden is familiar with from college.
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captin midnight
Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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To throw 2 other names into the discussion, what about Mike Tice the OC from the Bears and Steve Sarkisian, the head coach at University of Washington.
Tice brings NFL head coaching experience who has turned around the Bears offense. Albeit he has the luxury of Brandon Marshall and Matt Forte. But he would bring the game management skills we lack, loves to run the ball (Lord knows we got the running back), loves his big arm quarterbacks slinging the ball down the field(Culpepper, Cutler, Weeden), and WR that are were headcases but all are game changers(Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall, and Josh Gordon)
Sarkisian would be the wild card because he had a brief stint in the NFL, but since he took over Washington, he has been successful. He is a great offensive mind and he could really be something special. This would truly be the dark horse candidate. |
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HADEN4PREZIDENT
Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 419
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| captin midnight wrote: | To throw 2 other names into the discussion, what about Mike Tice the OC from the Bears and Steve Sarkisian, the head coach at University of Washington.
Tice brings NFL head coaching experience who has turned around the Bears offense. Albeit he has the luxury of Brandon Marshall and Matt Forte. But he would bring the game management skills we lack, loves to run the ball (Lord knows we got the running back), loves his big arm quarterbacks slinging the ball down the field(Culpepper, Cutler, Weeden), and WR that are were headcases but all are game changers(Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall, and Josh Gordon)
Sarkisian would be the wild card because he had a brief stint in the NFL, but since he took over Washington, he has been successful. He is a great offensive mind and he could really be something special. This would truly be the dark horse candidate. |
Really like Sarkisian from his USC days. Really turned around a sorry Washington football program.
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skatebeanz
Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 17463
Location: Jamison. on the Sweet-sig.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| HADEN4PREZIDENT wrote: | | captin midnight wrote: | To throw 2 other names into the discussion, what about Mike Tice the OC from the Bears and Steve Sarkisian, the head coach at University of Washington.
Tice brings NFL head coaching experience who has turned around the Bears offense. Albeit he has the luxury of Brandon Marshall and Matt Forte. But he would bring the game management skills we lack, loves to run the ball (Lord knows we got the running back), loves his big arm quarterbacks slinging the ball down the field(Culpepper, Cutler, Weeden), and WR that are were headcases but all are game changers(Randy Moss, Brandon Marshall, and Josh Gordon)
Sarkisian would be the wild card because he had a brief stint in the NFL, but since he took over Washington, he has been successful. He is a great offensive mind and he could really be something special. This would truly be the dark horse candidate. |
Really like Sarkisian from his USC days. Really turned around a sorry Washington football program. |
Most likely he won't go. He turned down an interview for the Rams last year.
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| detfan782004 wrote: | | If he [Ansah] doesn't exceed career sacks this year I'm calling it a bust, all 4.5 |
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know if there is any truth to Jimmy Haslam being close with Nick Saban? I've heard this a few times but cannot find anything about their paths crossing professionally. I am on the fence with Saban as he is my 2nd favorite college coach and an obvious leader and I think he can do great things in the NFL but it didn't go well the last time.
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