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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5833
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
MBTL brought up another good one, Keith Butler


That was my pick back when we hired Mangini. I don't want him because I dont want to switch to the 3-4


Why not The Browns have enough DL's to do it and just need a Rolb in a 34.


I actually agree with DS on this.

I think Rucker could be a (very) poor man's justin smith at the right 5tech.

Taylor could play both DE and NT.

Winn could be a good 5 tech.

Rubin and hughes at NT.

DQ at the Will, MJM at the Mike, Sheard at LOLB.

Need depth all over the place though.

I i think with those players, it would have to be a one gap 34. Let the DE's shoot the gaps.
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5833
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
MBTL brought up another good one, Keith Butler


That was my pick back when we hired Mangini. I don't want him because I dont want to switch to the 3-4


Why not The Browns have enough DL's to do it and just need a Rolb in a 34.


We need 2 more starting LB's at least, Sheard is not a OLB and a no one on our roster has 3-4 experience.


Why is Sheard not an OLB?


Sheard is already standing up on third and long situations. Looks comfortable at it too.
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KamTrus20


Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 5360
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
MBTL brought up another good one, Keith Butler


That was my pick back when we hired Mangini. I don't want him because I dont want to switch to the 3-4


Why not The Browns have enough DL's to do it and just need a Rolb in a 34.


We need 2 more starting LB's at least, Sheard is not a OLB and a no one on our roster has 3-4 experience.


I would agree and still do until I see more, but I would like to point out Sheard just played his best half of football this year and a lot of that was coming from a 2 point stance.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:


Sheard is already standing up on third and long situations. Looks comfortable at it too.


KamTrus20 wrote:

I would agree and still do until I see more, but I would like to point out Sheard just played his best half of football this year and a lot of that was coming from a 2 point stance.


Thank you gentlemen.

I thought he looked very good standing up as well.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KamTrus20 wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
MBTL brought up another good one, Keith Butler


That was my pick back when we hired Mangini. I don't want him because I dont want to switch to the 3-4


Why not The Browns have enough DL's to do it and just need a Rolb in a 34.


We need 2 more starting LB's at least, Sheard is not a OLB and a no one on our roster has 3-4 experience.


I would agree and still do until I see more, but I would like to point out Sheard just played his best half of football this year and a lot of that was coming from a 2 point stance.


I suppose he did play well, but im not willing to pencil him in because I certainly don't trust him to stay in stride with a tight end, and he's not an elite pass rusher, and those 3-4 defenses we had for all those years failed miserably in part because no one was rushing the passer (which obviously we need in either defense)

Add in the fact that the only players as far as I can tell who have 3-4 experience are our secondary players and DQ who failed pretty awfully in the 3-4.

I'd personally rather not reshape the defense, especially since you know any new coach is going to want to bring in players who know "his system" which leads me to fear a bunch of Pittsburgh cast offs (god help us if Orpheus Roye-like players show up again)
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TypicalBrowns10


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 1098
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can someone fail at 34, when half the time they are on the DL for the entire season practically and just coming off injury. Blows my mind.
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DaWg_LB.


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 4616
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:

lololol at the underlined.

I knew they had a sh** scouting dept.

I was just wonder if he gets a say in who gets signed or let go from their own roster in FA and who they go after from another team in FA. Also, who they target in the draft. How much say does he have there...

Shall we go visit the Bengals forum?
Wink


First and foremost....LOL...I like the way you think Sir.... Laughing

Also I like to say that MBTL...I like that list of HC candidates.....
The two cats I am really interested in is..
Perry Fewell from the Giants
and
Winston Moss (Asst.HC/LB GB.)

But also Ray Horton from AZ is interesting also....never thought of that guy.......

If we went the college route, I would want somebody old and been around forever like....Kirk Frentz from Iowa...I think thoes type of coaches are ready to run a pro program.....folks like Chip Kelly (see Greg Schiano in TB) would try to run it too much like a college program...
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TypicalBrowns10 wrote:
How can someone fail at 34, when half the time they are on the DL for the entire season practically and just coming off injury. Blows my mind.


He played 3 and 1/2 seasons in the 3-4 before being injured.
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Mastercheddaar


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: hmmm Reply with quote

NO to the 3-4. We are just beginning to get Dline depth to run the 4-3.

that is all

Mastercheddaar
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Productiondawg


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Cincinnati
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
MBTL brought up another good one, Keith Butler


That was my pick back when we hired Mangini. I don't want him because I dont want to switch to the 3-4


Why not The Browns have enough DL's to do it and just need a Rolb in a 34.


We need 2 more starting LB's at least, Sheard is not a OLB and a no one on our roster has 3-4 experience.


I would say a little more than no one has 3/4 experience. Jackson, Maivia, Gocong, Rubin, Rucker, Ward and Hayden to name a few. Not to mention look how fast Green Bay and Houston adjusted to theirs when they switched. It just comes down coaching, a NT (Rubin) and an outside rusher (Sheared and or draft pick)
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Productiondawg wrote:
Not to mention look how fast Green Bay and Houston adjusted to theirs when they switched. It just comes down coaching, a NT (Rubin) and an outside rusher (Sheared and or draft pick)


Rubin is a good NT, but its not like he made our 3-4 defense elite when he played.

And Green Bay's defense has been pretty darn awful the last two seasons despite having a pass rush presence.
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pmk


Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Productiondawg wrote:
Not to mention look how fast Green Bay and Houston adjusted to theirs when they switched. It just comes down coaching, a NT (Rubin) and an outside rusher (Sheared and or draft pick)


Rubin is a good NT, but its not like he made our 3-4 defense elite when he played.

And Green Bay's defense has been pretty darn awful the last two seasons despite having a pass rush presence.
GB runs a 2-4-5 nickel 60% of their snaps too so I wouldn't exactly call them a 3-4 D. They rarely line up in their base defense.
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ReggieCamp


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All things being equal, I don't much care if we run 3-4 or 4-3. Just because we failed in our previous attempts to run a 3-4 doesn't mean it's a bad scheme. But, at this point and in our situation, I'd prefer to stay in the 4-3. Here's why:

- Most obviously, all our current players are better versed in the 4-3.
- Any semblance of continuity would be lost.
- Too many teams are running the 3-4 right now.

Let me elaborate on the last point. 3-4 personnel can be tough to find, but they're even tougher to find when a lot of teams are running it. I would prefer to zig when everyone else is zagging and stay in a 4-3.

Bottom line: Regardless of scheme, we need more and better pass rushers.
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
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Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
All things being equal, I don't much care if we run 3-4 or 4-3. Just because we failed in our previous attempts to run a 3-4 doesn't mean it's a bad scheme. But, at this point and in our situation, I'd prefer to stay in the 4-3. Here's why:

- Most obviously, all our current players are better versed in the 4-3.
- Any semblance of continuity would be lost.
- Too many teams are running the 3-4 right now.

Let me elaborate on the last point. 3-4 personnel can be tough to find, but they're even tougher to find when a lot of teams are running it. I would prefer to zig when everyone else is zagging and stay in a 4-3.

Bottom line: Regardless of scheme, we need more and better pass rushers.

I would argue there are more 34 pass rushers available than 43 ones in this draft.
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ReggieCamp


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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Location: Canonsburg, PA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
All things being equal, I don't much care if we run 3-4 or 4-3. Just because we failed in our previous attempts to run a 3-4 doesn't mean it's a bad scheme. But, at this point and in our situation, I'd prefer to stay in the 4-3. Here's why:

- Most obviously, all our current players are better versed in the 4-3.
- Any semblance of continuity would be lost.
- Too many teams are running the 3-4 right now.

Let me elaborate on the last point. 3-4 personnel can be tough to find, but they're even tougher to find when a lot of teams are running it. I would prefer to zig when everyone else is zagging and stay in a 4-3.

Bottom line: Regardless of scheme, we need more and better pass rushers.

I would argue there are more 34 pass rushers available than 43 ones in this draft.

Eh, I think as the years go on, the line gets blurred a bit on pass rushers being better suited for a 4-3 or a 3-4. There have been plenty of players over the past several drafts who were considered being a better fit for one scheme, but went on to be successful in the other. Some examples I can think of:

- Chris Long: 3-4 teams were salivating over him as a 3-4 DE. He's been very good as a 4-3 DE.
- Lamarr Woodley: Many said he was too big to be a good 3-4 OLB. Nope.
- Jabaal Sheard: Most considered him as a 3-4 OLB, but he's done well in the 4-3.
- Lots of 3-4 teams had high interest in Jason Pierre-Paul.

There are guys who look to be better suited (on paper) for a given scheme, but the bottom line is usually pass rushing. If they can beat an NFL offensive tackle on a regular basis, then they are scheme diverse.
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