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Are Cowboys Fans Simply Spoiled By Past Success???
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Are Cowboys fans simply spoiled by past success or do we have a valid reason to complain???
Yes. Cowboys fans are spoiled by past success. It's unreasonable for a fan base to "expect" more success than the Cowboys have had over the past 16 years.
46%
 46%  [ 7 ]
No. Cowboys fans have a legit complaint. Selling out the stadium at inflated prices and extreme level of merchandising justifiably creates fans expectations.
53%
 53%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 15

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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Are Cowboys Fans Simply Spoiled By Past Success??? Reply with quote

Are Cowboys Fans Simply Spoiled By Past Success? Or, have Cowboys fans EARNED the right to complain?

Recently, there has been more and more media reports saying that Cowboys fans are spoiled by past success and they expect too much. This attack on expectations has even carried over to our forum in various degrees. They use the Cleveland Brown Fan Base of how real fans should be. They say things like "The Browns would have loved to have been in the playoffs 2 times in the last 5-6 years. Yet, you don't see Browns fans b****ing and moaning." This got me thinking. So, I did a little research.

Before we look at that data, however, everybody needs one important fact... EVERYTHING is more expensive in NYC, Boston and Chicago. $2,000 is a mortgage payment on a nice house in the Dallas area. $2,000 gets you a room with a roommate or 2 in NYC. This isn't opinion. This is fact.

That being said, let's compare ticket prices in Dallas to other sports...

The average price for a red sox ticket is $140 per ticket. The average price of a Yankee ticket is $98. Cubs and White Sox tickets go for about $80 per ticket. By Comparison, Ranger tickets are a very reasonable $48 a ticket. I think everybody would agree that the Rangers in recent years have been far more competitive than the Cowboys. They have made deep playoff runs and put a nice product on the field. Yet, their ticket prices are consistent with the league average.

The NBA is very similar. The Knicks are the most expensive at $117 per ticket on average. Second, Lakers tickets run about $99 on average. Dallas Mavericks tickets are in middle of the pack at $62 per ticket. Again, I think everybody would agree that the Mavs have had far more recent success than the Cowboys. The Mavs make the playoffs every year and won a championship in 2011. Yet, their ticket prices are consistent with the league average.

This brings us to the Cowboys...

Here are the top 5 NFL average ticket prices in the NFL...

1. Jets- $117.94 (2 AFC Championship games in the past 4 years)
2. Pats- $117.84 (2 SB appearances since 2007 and continually win AFCN)
3. Giants- $111.69 (2 SBs since 2007)
4. Bears- $110.91
5. Cowboys- $110.70

Here are the bottom 3 NFL average ticket prices...

30. Jaguars- $59.54
31. Bills- $58.36
32. Browns- $54.20

There's more. Cowboys fans also buy more NFL Memorabilia than any other fan base. Dallas jersey sell more than any other franchise. Cowboys fans show up in droves to attend training camp. They also show up in droves to other stadiums. I think we all remember the 49er game last year and how loud the cowboys fans were at the end of the game. I personally attended the Arizona game last year. Granted this isn't the greatest pic because of where I was sitting... but I think it demonstrates that over 50% of the fans were Cowboys fans at an away game...



Hopefully, most of you will remember this Bill Parcellsism. When asked whether Keyshawn Johnson's mouth would be a distraction, Parcells responded, "I don't mind that. If you do the jobs that he'll do, then you can chirp a little." http://lubbockonline.com/stories/050104/pro_050104074.shtml

Has the Cowboys fan base earned the right to chirp??? Cowboys fans have sold out cowboys games for past 20 years. Unlike Rangers or Mavericks, Cowboys fans are paying top dollar for tickets DESPITE only 1 playoff win in the past 16 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To an extent. When you love a competitive sport, you want to see success. When you buy the merchindise, the tickets, spend hours and hours on in loving your team, showing your support. You have a right to expect production, titles, etc.

And the Browns are not a great example, their just used to being disappointed.

The point of a competitive sport is too win, not to play. So w/e said that fans should be ok with mediocrity and just enjoy seeing football have no idea what the concept is of competitive sports in general.

"If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?"- Vince Lombardi
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, even though there is a poll... the purpose is to generate discussion. Please don't just vote without adding a comment.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
BTW, even though there is a poll... the purpose is to generate discussion. Please don't just vote without adding a comment.
I just added a comment and didn't vote. Razz
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think, for the most part, Cowboys fans are spoiled.

When you had 20 consecutive winning seasons, made it to the Super Bowl 8 times, winning five and multiple other achievements in just 50 years of existence...expectations are going to be high.

However, speaking from the point of view of someone who was too young to really get to witness and experience the success of the early '90s, and wasn't even alive for the Landry era...it's frustrating to watch this team constantly disappoint year after year even after getting our hopes up every off-season.

I'm not asking for a Super Bowl every year, but what I would like to see is a team that makes very few mental errors, when they lose they don't lose ugly. I'd like to see a team that competes every single week and tries to improve. Make it fun to watch the game, at the very least...not put forth a laughable effort some weeks.

My expectations have kind of waned over the last few years, but with Garrett at the helm I honestly think we're on right track. It's just going to take some time to shake off the old era and get those "RKG's" in here. I also think having an experienced coach to learn from would have greatly helped in JG's development.

I think if we bring in an experienced OC (Norv) to run the offense, hire a new ST coach, dedicate this next draft to upgrading the offensive and defensive lines that we will at the very least be a smarter, more competitive team next year - and at the end of the day, that's all I really want.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
I think, for the most part, Cowboys fans are spoiled.

When you had 20 consecutive winning seasons, made it to the Super Bowl 8 times, winning five and multiple other achievements in just 50 years of existence...expectations are going to be high.

However, speaking from the point of view of someone who was too young to really get to witness and experience the success of the early '90s, and wasn't even alive for the Landry era...it's frustrating to watch this team constantly disappoint year after year even after getting our hopes up every off-season.

I'm not asking for a Super Bowl every year, but what I would like to see is a team that makes very few mental errors, when they lose they don't lose ugly. I'd like to see a team that competes every single week and tries to improve. Make it fun to watch the game, at the very least...not put forth a laughable effort some weeks.

My expectations have kind of waned over the last few years, but with Garrett at the helm I honestly think we're on right track. It's just going to take some time to shake off the old era and get those "RKG's" in here. I also think having an experienced coach to learn from would have greatly helped in JG's development.

I think if we bring in an experienced OC (Norv) to run the offense, hire a new ST coach, dedicate this next draft to upgrading the offensive and defensive lines that we will at the very least be a smarter, more competitive team next year - and at the end of the day, that's all I really want.


Des, if selling out the stadium for 16 straight years while buying more merchandise than any other team in the NFL but only getting 1 playoff win in return does NOT give a fan base a right to complain... in your opinion, what would give Cowboys fans a justifiable right to complain???
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
I think, for the most part, Cowboys fans are spoiled.

When you had 20 consecutive winning seasons, made it to the Super Bowl 8 times, winning five and multiple other achievements in just 50 years of existence...expectations are going to be high.

However, speaking from the point of view of someone who was too young to really get to witness and experience the success of the early '90s, and wasn't even alive for the Landry era...it's frustrating to watch this team constantly disappoint year after year even after getting our hopes up every off-season.

I'm not asking for a Super Bowl every year, but what I would like to see is a team that makes very few mental errors, when they lose they don't lose ugly. I'd like to see a team that competes every single week and tries to improve. Make it fun to watch the game, at the very least...not put forth a laughable effort some weeks.

My expectations have kind of waned over the last few years, but with Garrett at the helm I honestly think we're on right track. It's just going to take some time to shake off the old era and get those "RKG's" in here. I also think having an experienced coach to learn from would have greatly helped in JG's development.

I think if we bring in an experienced OC (Norv) to run the offense, hire a new ST coach, dedicate this next draft to upgrading the offensive and defensive lines that we will at the very least be a smarter, more competitive team next year - and at the end of the day, that's all I really want.


Des, if selling out the stadium for 16 straight years while buying more merchandise than any other team in the NFL but only getting 1 playoff win in return does NOT give a fan base a right to complain... in your opinion, what would give Cowboys fans a justifiable right to complain???


I didn't say we don't have a right to complain. I'm just saying we're spoiled Laughing
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
I think, for the most part, Cowboys fans are spoiled.

When you had 20 consecutive winning seasons, made it to the Super Bowl 8 times, winning five and multiple other achievements in just 50 years of existence...expectations are going to be high.

However, speaking from the point of view of someone who was too young to really get to witness and experience the success of the early '90s, and wasn't even alive for the Landry era...it's frustrating to watch this team constantly disappoint year after year even after getting our hopes up every off-season.

I'm not asking for a Super Bowl every year, but what I would like to see is a team that makes very few mental errors, when they lose they don't lose ugly. I'd like to see a team that competes every single week and tries to improve. Make it fun to watch the game, at the very least...not put forth a laughable effort some weeks.

My expectations have kind of waned over the last few years, but with Garrett at the helm I honestly think we're on right track. It's just going to take some time to shake off the old era and get those "RKG's" in here. I also think having an experienced coach to learn from would have greatly helped in JG's development.

I think if we bring in an experienced OC (Norv) to run the offense, hire a new ST coach, dedicate this next draft to upgrading the offensive and defensive lines that we will at the very least be a smarter, more competitive team next year - and at the end of the day, that's all I really want.


Des, if selling out the stadium for 16 straight years while buying more merchandise than any other team in the NFL but only getting 1 playoff win in return does NOT give a fan base a right to complain... in your opinion, what would give Cowboys fans a justifiable right to complain???


I didn't say we don't have a right to complain. I'm just saying we're spoiled Laughing


So are you saying that althoug we are spoiled from past success, we still have a justifiable right to b*tch and moan???
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
I think, for the most part, Cowboys fans are spoiled.

When you had 20 consecutive winning seasons, made it to the Super Bowl 8 times, winning five and multiple other achievements in just 50 years of existence...expectations are going to be high.

However, speaking from the point of view of someone who was too young to really get to witness and experience the success of the early '90s, and wasn't even alive for the Landry era...it's frustrating to watch this team constantly disappoint year after year even after getting our hopes up every off-season.

I'm not asking for a Super Bowl every year, but what I would like to see is a team that makes very few mental errors, when they lose they don't lose ugly. I'd like to see a team that competes every single week and tries to improve. Make it fun to watch the game, at the very least...not put forth a laughable effort some weeks.

My expectations have kind of waned over the last few years, but with Garrett at the helm I honestly think we're on right track. It's just going to take some time to shake off the old era and get those "RKG's" in here. I also think having an experienced coach to learn from would have greatly helped in JG's development.

I think if we bring in an experienced OC (Norv) to run the offense, hire a new ST coach, dedicate this next draft to upgrading the offensive and defensive lines that we will at the very least be a smarter, more competitive team next year - and at the end of the day, that's all I really want.


Des, if selling out the stadium for 16 straight years while buying more merchandise than any other team in the NFL but only getting 1 playoff win in return does NOT give a fan base a right to complain... in your opinion, what would give Cowboys fans a justifiable right to complain???


I didn't say we don't have a right to complain. I'm just saying we're spoiled Laughing


So are you saying that althoug we are spoiled from past success, we still have a justifiable right to b*tch and moan???


Yes, that is what I'm saying. But I also think we have to look at things realistically when it comes to the current Cowboys.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
I think, for the most part, Cowboys fans are spoiled.

When you had 20 consecutive winning seasons, made it to the Super Bowl 8 times, winning five and multiple other achievements in just 50 years of existence...expectations are going to be high.

However, speaking from the point of view of someone who was too young to really get to witness and experience the success of the early '90s, and wasn't even alive for the Landry era...it's frustrating to watch this team constantly disappoint year after year even after getting our hopes up every off-season.

I'm not asking for a Super Bowl every year, but what I would like to see is a team that makes very few mental errors, when they lose they don't lose ugly. I'd like to see a team that competes every single week and tries to improve. Make it fun to watch the game, at the very least...not put forth a laughable effort some weeks.

My expectations have kind of waned over the last few years, but with Garrett at the helm I honestly think we're on right track. It's just going to take some time to shake off the old era and get those "RKG's" in here. I also think having an experienced coach to learn from would have greatly helped in JG's development.

I think if we bring in an experienced OC (Norv) to run the offense, hire a new ST coach, dedicate this next draft to upgrading the offensive and defensive lines that we will at the very least be a smarter, more competitive team next year - and at the end of the day, that's all I really want.


Des, if selling out the stadium for 16 straight years while buying more merchandise than any other team in the NFL but only getting 1 playoff win in return does NOT give a fan base a right to complain... in your opinion, what would give Cowboys fans a justifiable right to complain???


I didn't say we don't have a right to complain. I'm just saying we're spoiled Laughing


So are you saying that althoug we are spoiled from past success, we still have a justifiable right to b*tch and moan???


Yes, that is what I'm saying. But I also think we have to look at things realistically when it comes to the current Cowboys.


Agreed, Des. We can do whatever we want. But we are still spoiled and have high expectations. So when those expectations aren't met, we can do whatever the heck we want.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
Agreed, Des. We can do whatever we want. But we are still spoiled and have high expectations. So when those expectations aren't met, we can do whatever the heck we want.


And obviously, when you have as large a fan base as the Dallas Cowboys do, you are going to have those who agree with the way you feel and those who don't.

All I ask, is that when discussing those feelings and different points of view on how to solve the issues regarding this franchise - you do so respectfully.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
I think, for the most part, Cowboys fans are spoiled.

When you had 20 consecutive winning seasons, made it to the Super Bowl 8 times, winning five and multiple other achievements in just 50 years of existence...expectations are going to be high.

However, speaking from the point of view of someone who was too young to really get to witness and experience the success of the early '90s, and wasn't even alive for the Landry era...it's frustrating to watch this team constantly disappoint year after year even after getting our hopes up every off-season.

I'm not asking for a Super Bowl every year, but what I would like to see is a team that makes very few mental errors, when they lose they don't lose ugly. I'd like to see a team that competes every single week and tries to improve. Make it fun to watch the game, at the very least...not put forth a laughable effort some weeks.

My expectations have kind of waned over the last few years, but with Garrett at the helm I honestly think we're on right track. It's just going to take some time to shake off the old era and get those "RKG's" in here. I also think having an experienced coach to learn from would have greatly helped in JG's development.

I think if we bring in an experienced OC (Norv) to run the offense, hire a new ST coach, dedicate this next draft to upgrading the offensive and defensive lines that we will at the very least be a smarter, more competitive team next year - and at the end of the day, that's all I really want.


Des, if selling out the stadium for 16 straight years while buying more merchandise than any other team in the NFL but only getting 1 playoff win in return does NOT give a fan base a right to complain... in your opinion, what would give Cowboys fans a justifiable right to complain???


I didn't say we don't have a right to complain. I'm just saying we're spoiled Laughing


The problem, Des, is that fans are sending Jerry a message that his behavior is perfectly fine because they still buy merchandise and still go to games. So regardless of what our expectations actually may be, Jerry only sees the cash flows from operations as the foundation of his decisions. As long as people keep giving him money, he has no reason to pay attention to anything else.
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
The problem, Des, is that fans are sending Jerry a message that his behavior is perfectly fine because they still buy merchandise and still go to games. So regardless of what our expectations actually may be, Jerry only sees the cash flows from operations as the foundation of his decisions. As long as people keep giving him money, he has no reason to pay attention to anything else.


Fair enough. However, with a franchise as large and polarizing as the Cowboys...you are going to have the "die-hard" fans, whom I believe make up most of this forum's membership and those who are "bandwagon" fans who aren't interested in how well we do - they buy and sell the merchandise and go to games just to brag and use it as a status symbol.

Those "die-hard" fans, the ones we have here...we all have our own thoughts and feelings on the best way the Cowboys can go about changing things - the one thing we can all agree on is that Jerry Jones is not the greatest GM out there. I don't think I've ever seen anyone who wasn't either trolling or just blinded, say that Jerry is a great GM. They may have said he is a great owner, which he is, but I've never seen any of the regulars state Jerry is a great GM. Though, there have been some who have said he gets far too much hate and that he has made some "hits" during his time here - which I think is fair to say. That still doesn't override the numerous mistakes he has made, obviously.

There are those who believe that we can win and have success even with Jerry in place as the GM. There are those who believe that no matter who is the coach, no matter who we draft, things won't change so long as Jerry is the GM.

Both are fine opinions, however, when we insult those who disagree with us instead of either trying to educate with fact and reason as to why we hold the opinion we do or just walking away from a discussion when it's obvious someone's opinion can't be changed...that's not okay, at least not here.

I will ask that we get back on topic, instead of turning yet another thread into how terrible a GM Jerry Jones is.
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Dboys88-82


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally cant remember cowboys greatness. I was born in '92. There isnt much to be proud of besides things that happened in the past. By the time i was old enough to really care about the nfl the greats were gone and so was the success. So I cant say that I am spoiled.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duh, the worst part is that the Cowboys have won 5 super bowls, yet there are teams that have never won a single superbowl...

I kinda like the joke:

"If I had a nickel for every time the Eagles won a superbowl, I'd have 0 nickels."
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