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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3902
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
bitty wrote:
There is no rebuilding in NFL anymore look at the Colts,the Seahawks,Tampa Bay, Miami and Washington.
There's just good coaches and bad.


The colts were built around Manning, when they lost him they lost everything that made them good. Now that they have Luck, (who is the next elite QB) they got their QB back, they literally lucked out.

Tampa has had a lot of good talent on both sides of the ball, they augmented it in the offseason, don't forget I think it was two years ago they were a 10-6 team.

Miami has a very strong defense, any time with a good defense can be a great team. Dont't let their wins fool you they haven't really beaten a lot of great teams.

Don't let RG3's fast start fool you, the kid's good don't get me wrong, but Shannahan has been running the baylor offense. That will only work for so long and when teams can gameplan it watch out because it won't be pretty. Just ask Cam Newton.

Seattle, don't make me laugh. Sure they went to the playoffs a few years ago, but didn't they go as the first team with a losing record? Come on son they aren't a finished product either.

As of right now Palmer is a better quarterback than anyone from the other teams and we have as have better running back.

You're getting confused between poor coaching and lack of talent. If the Raiders had a good coach he can make up for some of the shortcomings on both sides of the ball but we don't we have new coaches with no experience and the shortcomings show.


All these teams have more wins than the Raiders have this season and didn't look as pathetic as the Raiders. They are showing improvement the one thing the Raiders haven't.


They were able to upgrade in the offseason, the raiders were not.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 12949
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Because it's ignorant to criticize a rookie head coach in 8 games. Further ignorant that you ignore the major disadvantages he was given in his rookie season. And the cherry on the ignorant sundae you won't shut up about Knapp, ever.


It's ignorant to criticize Dennis Allen, yet according to you, he hired an OC that deserves to be fired on what's supposed to be a rebuilding team. If that's not warranted criticism, I don't know what is.
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3384
Location: Hollywierd
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Allen is a good HC. I think he was hired so late, that he had slim pickens to chose his staff from. It's what he does with RM in the off-season that will tell us what he thought of his staff.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 23950
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
bitty wrote:
There is no rebuilding in NFL anymore look at the Colts,the Seahawks,Tampa Bay, Miami and Washington.
There's just good coaches and bad.


The colts were built around Manning, when they lost him they lost everything that made them good. Now that they have Luck, (who is the next elite QB) they got their QB back, they literally lucked out.

Tampa has had a lot of good talent on both sides of the ball, they augmented it in the offseason, don't forget I think it was two years ago they were a 10-6 team.

Miami has a very strong defense, any time with a good defense can be a great team. Dont't let their wins fool you they haven't really beaten a lot of great teams.

Don't let RG3's fast start fool you, the kid's good don't get me wrong, but Shannahan has been running the baylor offense. That will only work for so long and when teams can gameplan it watch out because it won't be pretty. Just ask Cam Newton.

Seattle, don't make me laugh. Sure they went to the playoffs a few years ago, but didn't they go as the first team with a losing record? Come on son they aren't a finished product either.

As of right now Palmer is a better quarterback than anyone from the other teams and we have as have better running back.

You're getting confused between poor coaching and lack of talent. If the Raiders had a good coach he can make up for some of the shortcomings on both sides of the ball but we don't we have new coaches with no experience and the shortcomings show.


The defense is better this year than last with less talent. What are you talking about?


All these teams have more wins than the Raiders have this season and didn't look as pathetic as the Raiders. They are showing improvement the one thing the Raiders haven't.


The redskins defense is much worse than last year. much much worse. Seriously what are you talking about. Miami offense is better, 1st round QB, Colts offense is better 1st round QB. Seattle defense is better, young talent across the board through the past two drafts, and young QB again. I ask again what talent was added to this team to make them all the sudden suppose to be better.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 23558
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Because it's ignorant to criticize a rookie head coach in 8 games. Further ignorant that you ignore the major disadvantages he was given in his rookie season. And the cherry on the ignorant sundae you won't shut up about Knapp, ever.


It's ignorant to criticize Dennis Allen, yet according to you, he hired an OC that deserves to be fired on what's supposed to be a rebuilding team. If that's not warranted criticism, I don't know what is.


Considering I don't know what options he had for OC, I won't criticize him. Also, I think Knapp's offense would be better if it had the talent to execute.

So if you accept they are rebuilding, you are accepting a step backwards to start putting the pieces in place to run the schemes accordingly.

To judge a coach after 8 games into his career is just dumb. This is the impatient non-sense Raider fans have been subject to for a decade. So maybe give the guy time to get talent on the roster, instal the schemes accordingly, etc. for a change.
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Professor Oak


Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 3969
Location: Pallet Town
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Considering I don't know what options he had for OC, I won't criticize him. Also, I think Knapp's offense would be better if it had the talent to execute.

To judge a coach after 8 games into his career is just dumb. This is the impatient non-sense Raider fans have been subject to for a decade. So maybe give the guy time to get talent on the roster, instal the schemes accordingly, etc. for a change.

I agree with not judging a coach after an 8 game sample size, but I also believe that it's not fair to call it ignorant. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and quite frankly, fans have every right to place blame on the people who are responsible for the success of their team. Especially after we saw what this offense is capable of.

What's truly ignorant is the fact that Knapp is not maximizing players abilities. It is never supposed to work that way, in any sport. You work with your players' strengths. Yes the players are not blocking, yes they are not making the right throws every time, yes they are not executing correctly, but what it all comes down to is not being put into position to succeed. It all starts from the top.

It's more than just the running back that isn't working under Knapp.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3989
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
bitty wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
bitty wrote:
There is no rebuilding in NFL anymore look at the Colts,the Seahawks,Tampa Bay, Miami and Washington.
There's just good coaches and bad.


The colts were built around Manning, when they lost him they lost everything that made them good. Now that they have Luck, (who is the next elite QB) they got their QB back, they literally lucked out.

Tampa has had a lot of good talent on both sides of the ball, they augmented it in the offseason, don't forget I think it was two years ago they were a 10-6 team.

Miami has a very strong defense, any time with a good defense can be a great team. Dont't let their wins fool you they haven't really beaten a lot of great teams.

Don't let RG3's fast start fool you, the kid's good don't get me wrong, but Shannahan has been running the baylor offense. That will only work for so long and when teams can gameplan it watch out because it won't be pretty. Just ask Cam Newton.

Seattle, don't make me laugh. Sure they went to the playoffs a few years ago, but didn't they go as the first team with a losing record? Come on son they aren't a finished product either.

As of right now Palmer is a better quarterback than anyone from the other teams and we have as have better running back.

You're getting confused between poor coaching and lack of talent. If the Raiders had a good coach he can make up for some of the shortcomings on both sides of the ball but we don't we have new coaches with no experience and the shortcomings show.


The defense is better this year than last with less talent. What are you talking about?


All these teams have more wins than the Raiders have this season and didn't look as pathetic as the Raiders. They are showing improvement the one thing the Raiders haven't.


The redskins defense is much worse than last year. much much worse. Seriously what are you talking about. Miami offense is better, 1st round QB, Colts offense is better 1st round QB. Seattle defense is better, young talent across the board through the past two drafts, and young QB again. I ask again what talent was added to this team to make them all the sudden suppose to be better.


I saying the Raiders have poor coaching. Not one part of the team has gotten any better and now they are going back to power blocking.

Before you say the Raiders didn't have the personnel to implement zone blocking. Then they never should've do it in the first place.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 15412
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Oak wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Considering I don't know what options he had for OC, I won't criticize him. Also, I think Knapp's offense would be better if it had the talent to execute.

To judge a coach after 8 games into his career is just dumb. This is the impatient non-sense Raider fans have been subject to for a decade. So maybe give the guy time to get talent on the roster, instal the schemes accordingly, etc. for a change.

I agree with not judging a coach after an 8 game sample size, but I also believe that it's not fair to call it ignorant. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and quite frankly, fans have every right to place blame on the people who are responsible for the success of their team. Especially after we saw what this offense is capable of.

What's truly ignorant is the fact that Knapp is not maximizing players abilities. It is never supposed to work that way, in any sport. You work with your players' strengths. Yes the players are not blocking, yes they are not making the right throws every time, yes they are not executing correctly, but what it all comes down to is not being put into position to succeed. It all starts from the top.

It's more than just the running back that isn't working under Knapp.


Nothing has ever worked under Knapp. His hiring is the equivalent of the Chiefs making Crennel their full time HC or the Chargers keeping Turner, it yields the same results it always has. Not a lot of success.
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DirtyHarry


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 2374
Location: Foster City,CA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
Good - Palmer Streater Myers Reece

Bad - run defense, pass blocking Palmers throw at 35-32. DMC injured again

Ugly - Willie Smith, missed tackles, lack of rotation at DT, run Offense again.

Bryants absence told on Kelly and Seymour no surprise that the majority of Martins yards came in the 2nd half.

Because we are so poor at CB we have to play our safeties deep to help them in coverage this leaves us short in run defense. By the time Martin is through our front 7 the safety has no chance. Martin had 197 yards before contact which is ridiculous.

We desperately need Bartell and/or Spencer back and move Huff back to FS.

Allen made a mistake not having Bilikuidi active. How many DB's did we have active on Sunday ? Snap counts for Ross, Adams, Francies would be interesting.

So looking back at the 3 big runs.... The 1st one it was Houston and Bryant at DT Bryant was walled off Martin leaves Gio flat footed and branch gets stiff armed lol. Also Tollefson was in at LE. Not a recipe for a stuffed run.

The 2nd one we have branch in the box but it doesn't make a difference wheeler is pushed back into another zip code and lee whiffs badly. Burris and McClain can't disengage in time and poor Gio gets shook and hurt.

The 3rd one Burris and wheeler over pursue badly and mike Mitchell doesn't have a chance to get Martin in the open field. pat lee goes for a punchout and takes branch to the ground as well with him.
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38-10 Chargers

This game should definitely bring some lulz from the Raiders side.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 15412
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyHarry wrote:

The 3rd one Burris and wheeler over pursue badly and mike Mitchell doesn't have a chance to get Martin in the open field. pat lee goes for a punchout and takes branch to the ground as well with him.


Wheeler is lined up outside of the LE. He's not over pursuing on that play. Burris is. McClain as well but not as bad as Burris. Martin cuts back into Burris' lane (or where Burris should be). Seymour has been cut blocked. There's a huge hole to run through. And Mitchell takes a terrible angle on his tackle attempt allowing Martin to keep running full speed and he outruns everybody to the endzone (i don't know what kind of speed Pat Lee has but Martin is faster).
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 16103
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyHarry wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Good - Palmer Streater Myers Reece

Bad - run defense, pass blocking Palmers throw at 35-32. DMC injured again

Ugly - Willie Smith, missed tackles, lack of rotation at DT, run Offense again.

Bryants absence told on Kelly and Seymour no surprise that the majority of Martins yards came in the 2nd half.

Because we are so poor at CB we have to play our safeties deep to help them in coverage this leaves us short in run defense. By the time Martin is through our front 7 the safety has no chance. Martin had 197 yards before contact which is ridiculous.

We desperately need Bartell and/or Spencer back and move Huff back to FS.

Allen made a mistake not having Bilikuidi active. How many DB's did we have active on Sunday ? Snap counts for Ross, Adams, Francies would be interesting.

So looking back at the 3 big runs.... The 1st one it was Houston and Bryant at DT Bryant was walled off Martin leaves Gio flat footed and branch gets stiff armed lol. Also Tollefson was in at LE. Not a recipe for a stuffed run.

The 2nd one we have branch in the box but it doesn't make a difference wheeler is pushed back into another zip code and lee whiffs badly. Burris and McClain can't disengage in time and poor Gio gets shook and hurt.

The 3rd one Burris and wheeler over pursue badly and mike Mitchell doesn't have a chance to get Martin in the open field. pat lee goes for a punchout and takes branch to the ground as well with him.


thought bryant left in the 2nd qrt and never came back
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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ch8878


Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 2620
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
The Ugly: of all the coaching hires this past off-season, Dennis Allen has been the worst.

EDIT: HC hirings


Patch work O Line, Patch work LB's, Patch work CB's, Patch work back up RB's, Patch work TE's, no money to spend, no draft pick till the end of the 3rd round only because supplemental pick who else had to deal with this ?


What does any of that have to do with hiring Greg Knapp?


Who else where they going to get ?

Al Saunders is like 70 years old I personally can understand Dennis Allen wanting a younger guy as OC because he himself is young.

At the same time what about Jason Tarver defense ?

See to me coaches aren't the issue the real issue is the players point blank not to worry with no Wimbley who's salary was $12 million, Routt who's salary was $10 million, Henderson $4 million and more to come there will be money to spend next year so if this happens again next year then yes you have a right to blame the coaches.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1414
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
The Ugly: of all the coaching hires this past off-season, Dennis Allen has been the worst.

EDIT: HC hirings


Patch work O Line, Patch work LB's, Patch work CB's, Patch work back up RB's, Patch work TE's, no money to spend, no draft pick till the end of the 3rd round only because supplemental pick who else had to deal with this ?


What does any of that have to do with hiring Greg Knapp?


Who else where they going to get ?

Al Saunders is like 70 years old I personally can understand Dennis Allen wanting a younger guy as OC because he himself is young.

At the same time what about Jason Tarver defense ?

See to me coaches aren't the issue the real issue is the players point blank not to worry with no Wimbley who's salary was $12 million, Routt who's salary was $10 million, Henderson $4 million and more to come there will be money to spend next year so if this happens again next year then yes you have a right to blame the coaches.


I believe Reggie McKenzie was troubled with a number of very big decisions in his very first offseason as GM so he had to prioritise, I think the main thing Reggie was looking for was the right HC (in his opinion) and even if it took longer than he would have hoped he got Dennis Allen whom he wanted. Of course the down side of this due dilligence and not rushing into this huge decision was that the subsequent HC was left with a pretty bare cupboard of OC's and DC's. Luckily i think Tarver is the real deal and will in time and with experience be a great DC. Knapp was known to the Raiders and the FO (and had previosuly worked fairly succesfully with Fargas and Rhodes i believe), had used the system that Allen wanted to use (with success in Houston) and was probably the best of what was left at what they invisioned to be.

In hindsight, maybe they should have gone with someone else but that i think was the justification for the decision. Personally, I would have stuck with Al Saunders and the offensive blueprint we used last seasn with a couple of new wrinkles whilst spending all our efforts on the D, then switched to the O this upcoming offseason. Truth is, we need to veiw this as a clean slate and judge Allen after at least 2 full seasons. If after that time we are still showing little improvement there will be some justification for yet another change. Crying or Very sad
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3902
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:

The 3rd one Burris and wheeler over pursue badly and mike Mitchell doesn't have a chance to get Martin in the open field. pat lee goes for a punchout and takes branch to the ground as well with him.


Wheeler is lined up outside of the LE. He's not over pursuing on that play. Burris is. McClain as well but not as bad as Burris. Martin cuts back into Burris' lane (or where Burris should be). Seymour has been cut blocked. There's a huge hole to run through. And Mitchell takes a terrible angle on his tackle attempt allowing Martin to keep running full speed and he outruns everybody to the endzone (i don't know what kind of speed Pat Lee has but Martin is faster).


When has McClain ever over pursued? Laughing
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DirtyHarry


Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 2374
Location: Foster City,CA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
DirtyHarry wrote:
Dessie wrote:
Good - Palmer Streater Myers Reece

Bad - run defense, pass blocking Palmers throw at 35-32. DMC injured again

Ugly - Willie Smith, missed tackles, lack of rotation at DT, run Offense again.

Bryants absence told on Kelly and Seymour no surprise that the majority of Martins yards came in the 2nd half.

Because we are so poor at CB we have to play our safeties deep to help them in coverage this leaves us short in run defense. By the time Martin is through our front 7 the safety has no chance. Martin had 197 yards before contact which is ridiculous.

We desperately need Bartell and/or Spencer back and move Huff back to FS.

Allen made a mistake not having Bilikuidi active. How many DB's did we have active on Sunday ? Snap counts for Ross, Adams, Francies would be interesting.

So looking back at the 3 big runs.... The 1st one it was Houston and Bryant at DT Bryant was walled off Martin leaves Gio flat footed and branch gets stiff armed lol. Also Tollefson was in at LE. Not a recipe for a stuffed run.

The 2nd one we have branch in the box but it doesn't make a difference wheeler is pushed back into another zip code and lee whiffs badly. Burris and McClain can't disengage in time and poor Gio gets shook and hurt.

The 3rd one Burris and wheeler over pursue badly and mike Mitchell doesn't have a chance to get Martin in the open field. pat lee goes for a punchout and takes branch to the ground as well with him.


thought bryant left in the 2nd qrt and never came back

Nope he's in between shaugnessy and Houston.
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38-10 Chargers

This game should definitely bring some lulz from the Raiders side.
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