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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22614
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
The Ugly: of all the coaching hires this past off-season, Dennis Allen has been the worst.

EDIT: HC hirings


Patch work O Line, Patch work LB's, Patch work CB's, Patch work back up RB's, Patch work TE's, no money to spend, no draft pick till the end of the 3rd round only because supplemental pick who else had to deal with this ?


What does any of that have to do with hiring Greg Knapp?


YOu don't get it do you? How many OC's find success with a patchwork players. That's kinda of the point, but you'd rather blame Knapp than look at where the roster is thin.

The Raiders are REBUILDING. That means, they lack talent and need to find more. This was alway going to worse before getting better. But posters like you who don't think objectively about the one season over the next thought the team was ready for the playoffs, when in fact they were never even close.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 3182
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
Good - Palmer Streater Myers Reece

Bad - run defense, pass blocking Palmers throw at 35-32. DMC injured again

Ugly - Willie Smith, missed tackles, lack of rotation at DT, run Offense again.

Bryants absence told on Kelly and Seymour no surprise that the majority of Martins yards came in the 2nd half.

Because we are so poor at CB we have to play our safeties deep to help them in coverage this leaves us short in run defense. By the time Martin is through our front 7 the safety has no chance. Martin had 197 yards before contact which is ridiculous.

We desperately need Bartell and/or Spencer back and move Huff back to FS.

Allen made a mistake not having Bilikuidi active. How many DB's did we have active on Sunday ? Snap counts for Ross, Adams, Francies would be interesting.


In hindsight having Bilikuidi inactive was a bad move, however at the time it made perfect sense. In the last three games the run defense has been pretty dang stout and Doug Martin, with the exception of the Vikes game, has been pretty average. Now by comparison the Bucs passing attack has been nuts. Freemen has be throwing stuff up all over the place, so getting in the extra CBs made sense because really the threat was in the passing game. Tbh the Bucs got a perfect storm, we only had 2 DTs and the other had a freak injury. Plus McClain was questionable so if he got injured and we didn't have goethel active..well hontestly it sure as cuss couldn't have been worse.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14295
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:

"Need better decisions" is all i have to say.

Didn't work hard at all, just had to LISTEN to the press conference. I don't know how i'm not liking CP because i can criticize him when he does something wrong but whatever.


Yeah I read the ENTIRE transcript he basically praised Palmer the entire time. It's like LISTENING to politics. It's crazy how you got there from here.


Quote:
“Carson was hurried on a couple of throws and I think he said this yesterday and he would say it again today that there is a couple of throws in that game that he wished he had back that maybe weren’t the best decisions.


I didn't say anything that wasn't said by Allen. Spin it however you want to since that's what you want to do. I'm not blaming Palmer for the loss, and Allen doesn't either, i'm saying there's valid criticism to be made but you don't want to hear any of it. Fine, moving on then.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21617
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:

"Need better decisions" is all i have to say.

Didn't work hard at all, just had to LISTEN to the press conference. I don't know how i'm not liking CP because i can criticize him when he does something wrong but whatever.


Yeah I read the ENTIRE transcript he basically praised Palmer the entire time. It's like LISTENING to politics. It's crazy how you got there from here.


Quote:
“Carson was hurried on a couple of throws and I think he said this yesterday and he would say it again today that there is a couple of throws in that game that he wished he had back that maybe weren’t the best decisions.


I didn't say anything that wasn't said by Allen. Spin it however you want to since that's what you want to do. I'm not blaming Palmer for the loss, and Allen doesn't either, i'm saying there's valid criticism to be made but you don't want to hear any of it. Fine, moving on then.


You cant criticize Palmer cause there are other bigger problems on the team. Super logic.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7773
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
The Ugly: of all the coaching hires this past off-season, Dennis Allen has been the worst.

EDIT: HC hirings


Patch work O Line, Patch work LB's, Patch work CB's, Patch work back up RB's, Patch work TE's, no money to spend, no draft pick till the end of the 3rd round only because supplemental pick who else had to deal with this ?


What does any of that have to do with hiring Greg Knapp?


YOu don't get it do you? How many OC's find success with a patchwork players. That's kinda of the point, but you'd rather blame Knapp than look at where the roster is thin.

The Raiders are REBUILDING. That means, they lack talent and need to find more. This was alway going to worse before getting better. But posters like you who don't think objectively about the one season over the next thought the team was ready for the playoffs, when in fact they were never even close.


big_palooka wrote:
Not me. Never said Knapp needed a few seasons. Laughing Laughing

I hated when Knapp was hired. He had 'some' talent but can't use it.


I think we can both agree that Knapp's terrible. Just had to bring up that quote so you don't miss the bigger picture.

Dennis Allen had a chance to build a foundation starting this season through coaching stability. So regardless of what you think about our talent or what our record should be, it doesn't change that we have one of the worst OC's in the league, who needs to be fired after the season. That's not the way any of us wanted to see the new regime start. Do you get what I'm trying to say?


Last edited by Darkness on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21617
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
The Ugly: of all the coaching hires this past off-season, Dennis Allen has been the worst.

EDIT: HC hirings


Patch work O Line, Patch work LB's, Patch work CB's, Patch work back up RB's, Patch work TE's, no money to spend, no draft pick till the end of the 3rd round only because supplemental pick who else had to deal with this ?


What does any of that have to do with hiring Greg Knapp?


YOu don't get it do you? How many OC's find success with a patchwork players. That's kinda of the point, but you'd rather blame Knapp than look at where the roster is thin.

The Raiders are REBUILDING. That means, they lack talent and need to find more. This was alway going to worse before getting better. But posters like you who don't think objectively about the one season over the next thought the team was ready for the playoffs, when in fact they were never even close.


big_palooka wrote:
Not me. Never said Knapp needed a few seasons. Laughing Laughing

I hated when Knapp was hired. He had 'some' talent but can't use it.


I think we can both agree that Knapp's terrible. Just had to bring up that quote so you don't miss the bigger picture.

Dennis Allen had a chance to build a foundation starting this season through coaching stability. So regardless of what you think about our talent or what our record should be, it doesn't change that we have one of the worst OC's in the league, who needs to be fired after the season. That's not the way any of us wanted to see the new regime start. I'm fine with losing as long as I think our coaches are doing a good job. Do you get what I'm trying to say?


What was the other options for OC, Are we just going to assume we didnt try to get anyone else? Are we just going to assume every establish OC was rushing to come work for a young head coach, with an injury prone RB as his star and a young inexperience wrs core. People act like Allen was hired and the next day Knapp was. That isnt how I remember it. Also Allen wasnt even hired in a hurry.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7773
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
The Ugly: of all the coaching hires this past off-season, Dennis Allen has been the worst.

EDIT: HC hirings


Patch work O Line, Patch work LB's, Patch work CB's, Patch work back up RB's, Patch work TE's, no money to spend, no draft pick till the end of the 3rd round only because supplemental pick who else had to deal with this ?


What does any of that have to do with hiring Greg Knapp?


YOu don't get it do you? How many OC's find success with a patchwork players. That's kinda of the point, but you'd rather blame Knapp than look at where the roster is thin.

The Raiders are REBUILDING. That means, they lack talent and need to find more. This was alway going to worse before getting better. But posters like you who don't think objectively about the one season over the next thought the team was ready for the playoffs, when in fact they were never even close.


big_palooka wrote:
Not me. Never said Knapp needed a few seasons. Laughing Laughing

I hated when Knapp was hired. He had 'some' talent but can't use it.


I think we can both agree that Knapp's terrible. Just had to bring up that quote so you don't miss the bigger picture.

Dennis Allen had a chance to build a foundation starting this season through coaching stability. So regardless of what you think about our talent or what our record should be, it doesn't change that we have one of the worst OC's in the league, who needs to be fired after the season. That's not the way any of us wanted to see the new regime start. I'm fine with losing as long as I think our coaches are doing a good job. Do you get what I'm trying to say?


What was the other options for OC, Are we just going to assume we didnt try to get anyone else? Are we just going to assume every establish OC was rushing to come work for a young head coach, with an injury prone RB as his star and a young inexperience wrs core. People act like Allen was hired and the next day Knapp was. That isnt how I remember it. Also Allen wasnt even hired in a hurry.


Not sure, but it's not my job to do Dennis Allen's job. He's being paid millions to assemble a good coaching staff that he believes can lead our team into the future, yet he hired an incompetent OC that needs to be fired after the season. It took Allen doing his job poorly for Knapp to get a chance to.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7773
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This didn't end up costing us and actually worked, but does anyone know why we kept going for it on 4th down instead of kicking a FG when we were trailing by 10? Is that the way you're supposed to play it?
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22614
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
The Ugly: of all the coaching hires this past off-season, Dennis Allen has been the worst.

EDIT: HC hirings


Patch work O Line, Patch work LB's, Patch work CB's, Patch work back up RB's, Patch work TE's, no money to spend, no draft pick till the end of the 3rd round only because supplemental pick who else had to deal with this ?


What does any of that have to do with hiring Greg Knapp?


YOu don't get it do you? How many OC's find success with a patchwork players. That's kinda of the point, but you'd rather blame Knapp than look at where the roster is thin.

The Raiders are REBUILDING. That means, they lack talent and need to find more. This was alway going to worse before getting better. But posters like you who don't think objectively about the one season over the next thought the team was ready for the playoffs, when in fact they were never even close.


big_palooka wrote:
Not me. Never said Knapp needed a few seasons. Laughing Laughing

I hated when Knapp was hired. He had 'some' talent but can't use it.


I think we can both agree that Knapp's terrible. Just had to bring up that quote so you don't miss the bigger picture.

Dennis Allen had a chance to build a foundation starting this season through coaching stability. So regardless of what you think about our talent or what our record should be, it doesn't change that we have one of the worst OC's in the league, who needs to be fired after the season. That's not the way any of us wanted to see the new regime start. Do you get what I'm trying to say?


I get what you are trying to say, but you are beating a dead horse. Every thread is about piling on Knapp and we all get it.

But until proven otherwise, he is the OC and will likely be next year is my guess.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5408
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
This didn't end up costing us and actually worked, but does anyone know why we kept going for it on 4th down instead of kicking a FG when we were trailing by 10? Is that the way you're supposed to play it?



We were trailing by 11. If it was 10 we would have went for the FG definitely.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14933
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if kidi was inactive and one dt out for the game why didnt allen rotate houston. houston should have played more dt that game. tko and rich were gassed hella bad. i saw so'oto suited up why not play him, carter and tolle at de. or go 3-4. we kept getting gashed up the middle and no adjustments were made
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7773
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Darkness wrote:
ch8878 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
The Ugly: of all the coaching hires this past off-season, Dennis Allen has been the worst.

EDIT: HC hirings


Patch work O Line, Patch work LB's, Patch work CB's, Patch work back up RB's, Patch work TE's, no money to spend, no draft pick till the end of the 3rd round only because supplemental pick who else had to deal with this ?


What does any of that have to do with hiring Greg Knapp?


YOu don't get it do you? How many OC's find success with a patchwork players. That's kinda of the point, but you'd rather blame Knapp than look at where the roster is thin.

The Raiders are REBUILDING. That means, they lack talent and need to find more. This was alway going to worse before getting better. But posters like you who don't think objectively about the one season over the next thought the team was ready for the playoffs, when in fact they were never even close.


big_palooka wrote:
Not me. Never said Knapp needed a few seasons. Laughing Laughing

I hated when Knapp was hired. He had 'some' talent but can't use it.


I think we can both agree that Knapp's terrible. Just had to bring up that quote so you don't miss the bigger picture.

Dennis Allen had a chance to build a foundation starting this season through coaching stability. So regardless of what you think about our talent or what our record should be, it doesn't change that we have one of the worst OC's in the league, who needs to be fired after the season. That's not the way any of us wanted to see the new regime start. Do you get what I'm trying to say?


I get what you are trying to say, but you are beating a dead horse. Every thread is about piling on Knapp and we all get it.

But until proven otherwise, he is the OC and will likely be next year is my guess.


If you get what I'm trying to say, why are you trying to make this about Knapp, when I've only been criticizing Allen in this thread? Why would you bring up how we're rebuilding, when you can't rebuild without a stable coaching foundation?

If a boss hires a well known poor employee to run half the company, and that poor employee does a poor job, where does the problem really lay? If Knapp is brought back next season, we might as well fire Dennis Allen now because he's waisting our time.


Last edited by Darkness on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7773
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Darkness wrote:
This didn't end up costing us and actually worked, but does anyone know why we kept going for it on 4th down instead of kicking a FG when we were trailing by 10? Is that the way you're supposed to play it?



We were trailing by 11. If it was 10 we would have went for the FG definitely.


Why does 1 point make a difference in this situation?
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkness wrote:
If Knapp is brought back next season, we might as well fire Dennis Allen now because he's waisting our time.



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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 7773
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Darkness wrote:
If Knapp is brought back next season, we might as well fire Dennis Allen now because he's waisting our time.




lol I didn't mean it literally. It makes sense though right? Part of being a good HC is not being stubborn, and addressing weaknesses on your staff. Especially if you're trying to rebuild. If Allen doesn't want to address the mistake he made, what's that say about him? Hopefully he's not comfortable enough with his job to think that he can waist another season with Knapp running the offense.
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