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CB should be our #1 priority!
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Manic


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 1549
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

id almost say just let long go, sign a top fa wr, and then draft a stud pass rusher and some zone blocking olinemen
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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pass rush

O-line

Wr who can make play after the catch

those are the 3 needs in my eyes

Marshall hs been a very solid NFL cornerback but unfortunately he has been hurt this year. Smith has been real good just wasnt at his best today.

if anything i would take a FS over CB
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Jaytotha


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smith dropped a couple passes and the deep ball he should have read better but today was about pass rush and us not getting to Luck. I would take a elite WR in FA like Wallace or Bowe and draft Damontre Moore from TA&M
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
Smith has been real good just wasnt at his best today.



I agree. Then again, a lot of corners have trouble with Reggie Wayne. I'm not worried about Smith. He may never be an all star, but he's certainly an NFL starter, and a good one.

We'll see about Marshall. I'm a fan and root hard for him, but he seems to struggle at times to me. I think he is similar to Vontae, but not quite as much of a physical specimen. Both seem to draw penalties that are unnecessary and both seem to have lapses in concentration. Vontae was more expensive and more of a head case, hence Marshall's promotion and Davis' departure.

WR is the only clear, glaring even blaring need. To me, pass rush is the closest 2nd, with OL depth and competition, and maybe a difference maker at TE.
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carlos2104


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just fuming from the stand. I couldn't understand why Jimmy Wilson was lined up on Wayne most of the time.
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carlos2104 wrote:
I was just fuming from the stand. I couldn't understand why Jimmy Wilson was lined up on Wayne most of the time.


Smith is going to stay at LCB all game long. He never switches sides and hence the Colts were able to dictate match-ups. That's nothing new though so it's not something the coaches didn't plan on happening. We had to rely on Jimmy Wilson's superior speed and quickness against Wayne and hope that Sean Smith did a decent job against his man.

There wasn't a lot we could do. Sean Smith sucks covering smaller, quicker WRs but Wayne is nimble enough so it's not hard to imagine Wayne being a mis-match on any of our CBs considering that no one can jam anyone coming off the line.

I don't hate Sean Smith but I do hate reading people saying he's great. Our CBs are reliably average. Nolan Carroll has stepped up a little this year justifying the playing time he's gotten but no one on the roster has the ability to be outstanding in my view. Vontae Davis had potential but he's gone.

The sad thing to me was how many times Sean Smith failed to step up when given a chance. He just doesn't have the killer instinct good CBs have. He knows he has terrible ball skills and so it appears he has no desire to make a play on the ball the way a guy like Cromartie does.

The difference between CBs is ball skills. Sean Smith lacks them so he'll always be average. This is why Indy wanted Vontae Davis.

Today's game was a failure of our D-line though. The Colts never intended to challenge our run defense and instead relied on Luck sliding away from Wake and finding an open receiver. They double-teamed Wake and played the same game all 60 minutes and we never had an answer.

I sat watching this game with people screaming for different play calls and couldn't help thinking how the real answer was we finally got called out by a smarter offense who understood our Achilles heal.

We had no adjustment because we didn't have the players.

Tragic.



The thing about this game though is that it shows exactly what would happen if we got to the Play-Offs. It doesn't have to be an elite team we face, just one that features an offense with a pocket-aware QB who can hit any one of a few guys who are quick and speedy and have good hands. A little pass protection and we're beaten.

Our offense, good or bad, just won't be perfect enough to keep up for 60 minutes. That said, our defense only yielded 23 points today so it's not like we got whooped by 40 which is what it felt like.

In truth though, that was because of the young, developing offense we faced. Had it been Manning's Colts, he would've thrown for half the yardage but 3x as many TDs I think. Laughing
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="phinmun"]
carlos2104 wrote:



The difference between CBs is ball skills. Sean Smith lacks them so he'll always be average. This is why Indy wanted Vontae Davis.



Darrell Revis isn't a big INT guy. He had one strong season in his career of INTs. Terrell Buckley had balls skills and he was gawd awful in coverage. For every ball he intercepted he gave up 3 to other guys. Ball skills are frequently an issue for corners, many of whom are failed WR's because of their hands.

No, I have no problem with Smith. He isn't the all world guy some of our fans see this year, but he does play well enough for Dolphins to go far. He is not the reason we've stunk and he's not the reason we lost today. He had a less than stellar day, for sure, but our entire secondary got served up 433 yards worth of humble pie by Andrew Luck on his way to a rookie record for passing.

We are still growing as a team and we are going to have growing pains. Today was painful. Its how we respond to a game like today that makes the difference between a crappy team and team ready to turn things around. There was plenty of blame to spread around and the truth is it was a good Colts team we played today. Luck is very, very good and he has better weapons to throw to than we do on offense. It was a close one, but they took it. We might take it if we played again tomorrow.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't view this Dolphins team much differently today than I did yesterday when I thought they were heading in the right direction.
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SUG


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
Miami2DaMax wrote:
Vernon needs to start, he's pretty darn fast and can drop back in coverage too. Misi needs to be replaced for a better pass rusher. I was never a fan of brunett be he's pretty good in the run stop though. I never like Clemons much, Carroll should be released asap, Smith needs to learn to tackle. =/


1. Where would Vernon start? Isn't good enough to start...YET.
2. Misi is one of the keys to the run defense being so great. Pass rush isn't that important from his spot, and he actually has done well getting after the passer when asked.
3. Burnett is one of the best OLB in the NFL amongst 4-3 LB this season.
4. Carroll has been MUCH improved. I like what I see from him this season.
5. Yes.


You know what ... Vernon is coming along nice & Misi is OK, but what I am talking about is drafting a
legit 1st rnd elite game changing pass rusher of C. Wakes caliber or better. (Aldon Smith)

You know C. Wake is like in his 7th Pro yr, we should already be thinking "down the road".

Put it this way, if Wake were to go down our Pass rush is DONE.
We need to get up & bust a move on the next generation comin up behind #51. At least we can make life a lot more
complicated for the elite QBs of our own backyard.
Brady - Manning - Flaco - Luck - Big Ben & Schaub.

Those are the guys that should be first foremost in Miami's sights.

sug
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Odrick should play at DT, but our DC wants the 4 best defensive linemen starting. Currently that's Wake, Soliai, Starks, Odrick. Once Vernon or another DE can outplay Odrick at DE consistently, Odrick will be bumped inside again and put in a borderline elite 3-man DT rotation.

That's what I'd do, anyway.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only thing is everytime Sean smith gives up catches its he isnt good or cant do this or is overated. Look man Luck threw the ball 50 times this is a passing league and i see good corners getting beat every single week. Nobody has said he is great but he is a good NFL cornerback. 50 PASSES WITH NO PASS RUSH
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phinmun


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
phinmun wrote:



The difference between CBs is ball skills. Sean Smith lacks them so he'll always be average. This is why Indy wanted Vontae Davis.



Darrell Revis isn't a big INT guy. He had one strong season in his career of INTs. Terrell Buckley had balls skills and he was gawd awful in coverage. For every ball he intercepted he gave up 3 to other guys. Ball skills are frequently an issue for corners, many of whom are failed WR's because of their hands.

No, I have no problem with Smith. He isn't the all world guy some of our fans see this year, but he does play well enough for Dolphins to go far. He is not the reason we've stunk and he's not the reason we lost today. He had a less than stellar day, for sure, but our entire secondary got served up 433 yards worth of humble pie by Andrew Luck on his way to a rookie record for passing.

We are still growing as a team and we are going to have growing pains. Today was painful. Its how we respond to a game like today that makes the difference between a crappy team and team ready to turn things around. There was plenty of blame to spread around and the truth is it was a good Colts team we played today. Luck is very, very good and he has better weapons to throw to than we do on offense. It was a close one, but they took it. We might take it if we played again tomorrow.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't view this Dolphins team much differently today than I did yesterday when I thought they were heading in the right direction.



Oh, no, you're exactly right. We lost this game before it started. We're not a different team this week. We're the same team, we just faced someone who saw our weakness and attacked it.

This reminded me of the last Dolphins/Colts match-up which was in Miami. We possessed the ball like 45 minutes and still lost because 15 minutes was all Peyton Manning needed to go up and down the field as required.

This team clearly has holes that will cost it games. I'd love to see the Dolphins in the Play-Offs but that's because I'm a fan. I don't think they'd win. I think we'd get what we got in 2008 when we made it and a better team (Ravens) destroyed us because we had clear deficiencies.


I don't take issue with any one of our CBs. I think they all do what's essentially asked of them. We're not lining up in defenses that require elite CBs so when they play average, I think to myself, that's exactly what the coaches are after. Consider we're currently making due without Marshall and I think we're in decent shape overall at the position. I talk negatively about Sean Smith to counter the positive attention this forum seems to unnecessarily throw his way. I'm just trying to be a voice of reason. I think he's solid, don't get me wrong.

Now, the comment you quoted was directed at the variety of well-known CBs around the league today who all seem to be able to catch the ball when given the opportunity. Remember, great defenes around the league are as much about turn-overs as they are about stuffing the run and creating pressure. If a QB is going to pass 50 times a game you need to be intercepting at least 1 if not 2 of those balls to make the OC pay for his greediness. This is what the Colts D did with Manning their. This is what the Packers D did when they were playing lights out. This is the way the Saints played during their dominance. This is what the Bears have seemed to always be able to do despite not having great offenses to exploit the opportunities.

Defenses like the 49ers, Ravens and Jets are much more complete yes, but they are MUCH tougher to build and to maintain over the long haul. There was a point not too long ago when the Panthers were outstanding and now they're a shell of their former selves it seems. The Ravens and Bears seem the only teams that have really been able to sustain that greatness but you have to hand that to the elite players they've had during those spans--namely the Hall-of-Fame MLBs they both feature! Shocked

Great defenses put the ball back into the hands of great offenses. That's the type of team we are heading towards. We didn't bring in Joe Philbin to install a mediocre offense that needs elite defense to help it win. We want the ball in our offense's hands as much as possible.

Another offensive possession and we probably win that game today! Think of it like that and you see the point!

When I see Sean Smith not able to make the big play, I shake my head, because I think to myself, 'damn, for as solid as you'll ever be, you'll never take big strides unless you play with the confidence that you can make a play and confidence usually comes from knowing you can do something, often because you've done it before.'


Now, is creating more pressure on the QB part of getting INTs? Yes, absolutely, but our CBs more than any other players have to be able to make the plays when they are called upon. We're not seeing anyone on our defense step up in these tough games aside from Cam Wake. He's the only real elite player who plays a impact position. Pass rushers can create big plays on defense but after that it's going to be the guys in the secondary and we don't have anyone who's making big plays for us.

Do we need another CB? I doubt it because what we have is solid. Do we need to replace Jones. No way. Do we ditch Clemons for someone like Eric Reid? I don't think so. Right now, our biggest weakness is definitely having Soliai, Starks & Odrick playing together when they should be rotating. Vernon needs playing time to develop which he's not getting because of Odrick.

We're in a sticky situation on defense. We're definitely going to struggle as you say Merc. There will be growing pains until we can get the right guys in the right place and let the young guys like Smith, Carroll, Wilson & Vernon develop.
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Straight up if you add another elite pass rusher, like 10-12 sacks a season, and then 2 more consistent offensive players we are a top 3 or 4 team in the AFC East. It's amazing how a pass rush helps a secondary. We do need another CB, but Smith would be a top 10 CB if he had a good pass rush I would be willing to bet. We're close boys, for the first time in 10 years you can look at this team and say they're 5 players away.
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
Straight up if you add another elite pass rusher, like 10-12 sacks a season, and then 2 more consistent offensive players we are a top 3 or 4 team in the AFC East. It's amazing how a pass rush helps a secondary. We do need another CB, but Smith would be a top 10 CB if he had a good pass rush I would be willing to bet. We're close boys, for the first time in 10 years you can look at this team and say they're 5 players away.


I'd certainly hope we're a top 4 team in the AFC East Wink
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say this until the offseason and in most threads dealing with team needs...

The Dolphin's need playmakers....guys that make the play to turn the momentum, guys that other teams game plan for, guys we as fans can say..."we need a big catch/sack/stop/pick from......" and it actually happens. This team lacks play makers on both sides of the ball. Position doesn't matter at this point...there isn't a single area this team cannot improved this offseason.
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Clutch


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last I checked the Cowboys spent about $100 mill in the offseason to correct their CB problem......didn't work.

Until we can get pressure by only rushing four, this will always be a topic.

Agree, let Starks go get his money, kick Odrick inside.

Time to let Vernon get some snaps. He seems super athletic, now lets get him some time. If he isn't the every down player, we need to go get that guy.

Offense should still be the focus though. Our 'weapons' are not even close to what you need in this league. We can get rid of Long and start to think about getting rid of Wake, as some have mentioned, but until you have real weapons, it won't matter.

Two huge drops on the last 2 drives hurt this team. Probably one of the reasons our running game isn't as effective is teams are daring us to throw. Bess ain't ever taking it to the house. Teams will take their chances with their #1CB versus Hartline. Fasano is Fasano. And then you have Moore/Gaffney etc.

Yes we need to improve the pass defense. And that can be a variety of ways. More press at the line, be physical with recievers by bumping them in that 5 yard zone. We made it really easy for them yesterday. Pass rush will help for sure. But that hasn't been a huge issue until yesterday.

Lets continue to enjoy the season and review at the end. Half way gents.
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