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bearsaddict


Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Anyone that can remotely look ahead can see that there will come a time, and likely soon, that our offense WILL need to consistently move the ball on longer fields and capitalize with touchdowns. Acting like our O isn't being as productive as it should be is living in denial. I'm not sure why so many here want to live myopically and dismiss that.


As I and others have said the fact we have a thread asking who our next OC will be after 8 games where we have scored the 3rd highest amount of points in the NFL is...well pointless...you can presume that we will eventually have to move the ball on a long field but what gives you that belief?...through the first 8 games the D and ST have given the O good starting field position...you act like that is a bad thing...why would that change over the next 8 games and hopefully playoff games after that unless you expect the D to fall off...something that there have been no indication of.
As the situation is many times here, you take what I say completely out of context and state that I said, or at least implied things that I in no way did. Why would I ever act like it is a bad thing that the D has given our offense great field position. That never even came close to happening. Furthermore, it is clear that we will have to generate some offense over the next few games because the teams we play are much better teams. Again, if you want to act like that's not true go ahead, but I will stay firmly entrenched in reality. The whole start of my comments in this thread were about the offensive line. I never once talked about needing a new OC, so that isn't even relevant to my comments. I never once complained about point production overall, starting field position, and especially the defense. What I DID say, and you continue to try to steer the conversation away from for some unknown reason, is that the O needs to perform better if we want to continue on this dominance that has been our current winning streak. We must protect Jay better, and to do that, we need better Oline production. Long term, the only way that happens is with better Oline talent. Short term, we need to figure out how we can keep him upright for more than 2 seconds at a time.
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DABEARSLCF04


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Id rather see the O-line improved before wee look for to replace tice after 8 games. The line has been playing better, but is still holding back the potential of the offense.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Anyone that can remotely look ahead can see that there will come a time, and likely soon, that our offense WILL need to consistently move the ball on longer fields and capitalize with touchdowns. Acting like our O isn't being as productive as it should be is living in denial. I'm not sure why so many here want to live myopically and dismiss that.


As I and others have said the fact we have a thread asking who our next OC will be after 8 games where we have scored the 3rd highest amount of points in the NFL is...well pointless...you can presume that we will eventually have to move the ball on a long field but what gives you that belief?...through the first 8 games the D and ST have given the O good starting field position...you act like that is a bad thing...why would that change over the next 8 games and hopefully playoff games after that unless you expect the D to fall off...something that there have been no indication of.
As the situation is many times here, you take what I say completely out of context and state that I said, or at least implied things that I in no way did. Why would I ever act like it is a bad thing that the D has given our offense great field position. That never even came close to happening. Furthermore, it is clear that we will have to generate some offense over the next few games because the teams we play are much better teams. Again, if you want to act like that's not true go ahead, but I will stay firmly entrenched in reality. The whole start of my comments in this thread were about the offensive line. I never once talked about needing a new OC, so that isn't even relevant to my comments. I never once complained about point production overall, starting field position, and especially the defense. What I DID say, and you continue to try to steer the conversation away from for some unknown reason, is that the O needs to perform better if we want to continue on this dominance that has been our current winning streak. We must protect Jay better, and to do that, we need better Oline production. Long term, the only way that happens is with better Oline talent. Short term, we need to figure out how we can keep him upright for more than 2 seconds at a time.

It continues to amaze me that we don't seem to run many quick slant routes and screens, especially early in games, to help our OL settle into games. Same thing every week - a bad first quarter or half followed by a more talent-friendly game plan alteration that is significantly more successful later in games.
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bearsaddict


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can agree with that without a doubt AZ. It really does confuse me as well. Those plays seem to make so much sense, but we so rarely use them. That screen that Forte took and weaved his way so far downfield gives me hope that we will incorporate screens more often.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
I can agree with that without a doubt AZ. It really does confuse me as well. Those plays seem to make so much sense, but we so rarely use them. That screen that Forte took and weaved his way so far downfield gives me hope that we will incorporate screens more often.

We don't use the short middle of the field nearly enough IMO. A better threat at TE would help with that for sure, but so would proper use of Bennett and the RBs in the passing game. If teams are going to send 5 and 6 guys, particularly on 3rd down, then we need guys to get the ball where those extra rushers are coming from, and most often that is from the LB level. Marshall, Forte and Bennett are all excellent after the catch. Get them the ball and a chance to make a play on 3rd down if the defense isn't going to give you time to get them downfield. At minimum the option needs to be there. If guys are blitzing instead of covering then there is generally an opening where they were. Doesn't seem overly complicated to me, but then again my OC experience is exclusively on the NCAA and Madden franchises, so take that for what it's worth.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
I just can't quote again because these quotes not working is really getting hard to read. Pointing out glaring deficiencies year after year in the Oline is not whining, its talking about reality. According to some, Al in particular, if we just stick with the line we have for another 7 years, they will all be hall of famers at that point. That is not reality. In reality you need good players to make good lines. Does time together help, sure. Does it magically make them competent when they just plain aren't...no.
They have been continuous efforts to upgrade the line, every year for the last three has seen at least one new guy added to the line. There have been continuous changes of position there as well.

It is simply false that anyone has said there we just have to wait. But we cannot change the line in any substantive way at this point.

It is improving as it is and is at least as good as GB's.

Panic is not a good way to make decisions.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
Anyone that can remotely look ahead can see that there will come a time, and likely soon, that our offense WILL need to consistently move the ball on longer fields and capitalize with touchdowns. Acting like our O isn't being as productive as it should be is living in denial. I'm not sure why so many here want to live myopically and dismiss that.
It has been repeatedly pointed out that this offense is a work in progress. NO ONE has claimed it is as good as it should/could be.

All that takes patience to perfect.

Do you seriously believe there is something that can be done now?
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furiousgeorge


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As I and others have said the fact we have a thread asking who our next OC will be after 8 games where we have scored the 3rd highest amount of points in the NFL is...well pointless...you can presume that we will eventually have to move the ball on a long field but what gives you that belief?...through the first 8 games the D and ST have given the O good starting field position...you act like that is a bad thing...why would that change over the next 8 games and hopefully playoff games after that unless you expect the D to fall off...something that there have been no indication of.


I don't post often and my life in the retail world keeps me from seeing most games (which is an enormous drag) some of y'all may remember the brief period where i posted on a semi-regular basis. my issue with the point of view expressed in this quote is that it completely ignores a game against Detroit where we could have put them away in the second quarter had we just been able to overcome bad field position. To ignore what we were unable to accomplish in the Detroit game, to me, is ridiculous. We started deep in our own territory for a major chunk of the game and we suffered from it. We won that game with defense.

Now I'm firmly in the "Tice will be a fine to very good OC for us camp" (if there is such a camp. Which one of us has to clean the mess hall by the way?) But what are we to do when, down by ten, the D has been on the field more than half the game, is worn out and we start at our own five? We need (in the following order)

1. a gameplan
2. an oline we can rely on

If Tice doesn't have an effective playbook for these situations, what is there to make us believe we have a shot? If the line can't protect for long enough for the plays to develop how will we avoid another safety? My biggest criticism of Cutler and this offense as a whole is simple, can we win the big one when faced with enormous adversity? The way the offense has executed so far...well...I have my doubts.

Feel free to disagree or ignore this post. I may just be rambling drunkenly. It does happen.
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bearsaddict


Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Anyone that can remotely look ahead can see that there will come a time, and likely soon, that our offense WILL need to consistently move the ball on longer fields and capitalize with touchdowns. Acting like our O isn't being as productive as it should be is living in denial. I'm not sure why so many here want to live myopically and dismiss that.
It has been repeatedly pointed out that this offense is a work in progress. NO ONE has claimed it is as good as it should/could be.

All that takes patience to perfect.

Do you seriously believe there is something that can be done now?
Yet again you misquote me. I never once said that anyone did say the offense is as good as it should be now. I also never said that we could really make player changes that would help us at this point. My point is that we have been satisfied with Webb mostly, but others historically when we had no business going into a season trusting that they would be anywhere near consistent.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Anyone that can remotely look ahead can see that there will come a time, and likely soon, that our offense WILL need to consistently move the ball on longer fields and capitalize with touchdowns. Acting like our O isn't being as productive as it should be is living in denial. I'm not sure why so many here want to live myopically and dismiss that.


As I and others have said the fact we have a thread asking who our next OC will be after 8 games where we have scored the 3rd highest amount of points in the NFL is...well pointless...you can presume that we will eventually have to move the ball on a long field but what gives you that belief?...through the first 8 games the D and ST have given the O good starting field position...you act like that is a bad thing...why would that change over the next 8 games and hopefully playoff games after that unless you expect the D to fall off...something that there have been no indication of.
As the situation is many times here, you take what I say completely out of context and state that I said, or at least implied things that I in no way did. Why would I ever act like it is a bad thing that the D has given our offense great field position. That never even came close to happening. Furthermore, it is clear that we will have to generate some offense over the next few games because the teams we play are much better teams. Again, if you want to act like that's not true go ahead, but I will stay firmly entrenched in reality. The whole start of my comments in this thread were about the offensive line. I never once talked about needing a new OC, so that isn't even relevant to my comments. I never once complained about point production overall, starting field position, and especially the defense. What I DID say, and you continue to try to steer the conversation away from for some unknown reason, is that the O needs to perform better if we want to continue on this dominance that has been our current winning streak. We must protect Jay better, and to do that, we need better Oline production. Long term, the only way that happens is with better Oline talent. Short term, we need to figure out how we can keep him upright for more than 2 seconds at a time.


Emm…no what you actually said was…

bearsaddict wrote:
Your qb getting sacked 3rd most in the NFL, and not being able to consistently score is not overreacting. Its called discussing what the weaknesses are with your team. I love how everytime you talk about something that this team needs to work on its automatically labeled as overreaction.


So not only did you complain about our point production but you were totally wrong to do so since as I pointed out we are the #3 scoring team in the entire league.
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bearsaddict


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, you had the evidence in front of you and you STILL got it wrong. I don't know why you keep doing this. Its getting annoying because all I'm doing is correcting your mistakes. Overall point production, as in the amount of points the team scores as a whole. I expressed concern about the amount of points we are scoring on offense and stating the fact that when the D doesn't just set up drives on a silver platter for us(like the Lions game that Furious George pointed out) we struggle to score. It is unreal that you just gloss over the fact that I pointed out how badly you misquote me constantly, only to try to "trap" me again, and fail miserably at it once again.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
Dude, you had the evidence in front of you and you STILL got it wrong. I don't know why you keep doing this. Its getting annoying because all I'm doing is correcting your mistakes. Overall point production, as in the amount of points the team scores as a whole. I expressed concern about the amount of points we are scoring on offense and stating the fact that when the D doesn't just set up drives on a silver platter for us(like the Lions game that Furious George pointed out) we struggle to score. It is unreal that you just gloss over the fact that I pointed out how badly you misquote me constantly, only to try to "trap" me again, and fail miserably at it once again.
Actually the Bears have like 7 or 8 90+ yard drives this year. The issue is not really inability to move the football, the issue is scoring TDs instead of FGs. The O is scoring 2 TDs and 3 FGs per game, we need to turn one of those FGs into a TD and we become a top 10 scoring offense.
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bearsaddict


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Anyone that can remotely look ahead can see that there will come a time, and likely soon, that our offense WILL need to consistently move the ball on longer fields and capitalize with touchdowns. Acting like our O isn't being as productive as it should be is living in denial. I'm not sure why so many here want to live myopically and dismiss that.
It has been repeatedly pointed out that this offense is a work in progress. NO ONE has claimed it is as good as it should/could be.

All that takes patience to perfect.

Do you seriously believe there is something that can be done now?
Panic is absolutely the way to go here. Oh, wait a second, I never said that. I already have one person here who misquotes me constantly, I don't need more than that Al. My complaints about the line have everything to do with the offseason, and just because I point out the fact that they are the weakest link to our team right now in no way means that we are supposed to be making some mad dash for the Vince Papale of Olinemen. We have rabbit trailed a bit here, but to try to bring it all back, we have to protect Cutler better if we are going to score with consistency on offense. These games where he can't even take a 3 step drop, hit his back foot and release without getting decked like in the late 2nd quarter of the Titans game, are going to spell bad news for us against better quality teams. The solution HAS to be better playcalling at this point, things like rolling the pocket, and everything that AZ mentioned earlier in his most recent posts in this thread.
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bearsaddict


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
bearsaddict wrote:
Dude, you had the evidence in front of you and you STILL got it wrong. I don't know why you keep doing this. Its getting annoying because all I'm doing is correcting your mistakes. Overall point production, as in the amount of points the team scores as a whole. I expressed concern about the amount of points we are scoring on offense and stating the fact that when the D doesn't just set up drives on a silver platter for us(like the Lions game that Furious George pointed out) we struggle to score. It is unreal that you just gloss over the fact that I pointed out how badly you misquote me constantly, only to try to "trap" me again, and fail miserably at it once again.
Actually the Bears have like 7 or 8 90+ yard drives this year. The issue is not really inability to move the football, the issue is scoring TDs instead of FGs. The O is scoring 2 TDs and 3 FGs per game, we need to turn one of those FGs into a TD and we become a top 10 scoring offense.
Yeah, that isn't unreasonable Supe. I would really like to see 1 or 2 more drives with TDs instead of field goals like you said, coupled with scoring drives EARLY in games, and not an offense that seems totally inept in first halves, and much better in second halves.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsaddict wrote:
Dude, you had the evidence in front of you and you STILL got it wrong. I don't know why you keep doing this. Its getting annoying because all I'm doing is correcting your mistakes. Overall point production, as in the amount of points the team scores as a whole. I expressed concern about the amount of points we are scoring on offense and stating the fact that when the D doesn't just set up drives on a silver platter for us(like the Lions game that Furious George pointed out) we struggle to score. It is unreal that you just gloss over the fact that I pointed out how badly you misquote me constantly, only to try to "trap" me again, and fail miserably at it once again.


You mean 23.3 PPG that the offence is scoring after taking away the 7 scores the D has contributed...you are annoyed that our offence alone has scored 23.3 PPG 8 games into a new offence?...not only that but you are back to this ridiculous excuse about the D setting us up in good field position…again that’s their job the same way as it’s the special teams job to set us up in good field position or to pin opposing teams deep to help our D out…it’s a 3 phase game…what is unreal is your continuance to go out your way to try and prove that Tice is doing such a bad job even tho we are scoring more points on offence along per game than the entire team managed last season per game.
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