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21 ALL THE WAY


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 3305
Location: WASHINGTON DC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Where is this team improving at?


You didn't answer his question halfway through the 3rd year is not 4, almost 5, years into his rebuild.

Reality is our team is extremely young, there's solid talent to build off of there. The defense has been riddled with injuries and needs upgrades, no doubt, but its not as bad as people make it out to be.

And if you can't see the offenses progression then there's no helping you. Laughing


I did, I said I made a mistake in the year thing. If you can't see the set back as well than there's no helping you Very Happy Shannahan and getting good RB's is just a gift he has so him getting Morris is nothing new. Only thing he did was get us in position to get RG3 (thatz it thatz all) Yes we started out strong looking like a good offense, but now teams have caught up to our scheme. What has this offense looked like since then? He drafted two great DE's and turned them into nothing more than average 3-4 OLBS, drove Haynesworth away (we may never wouldve gotten 100 million dollars worth of production from him, but he did help the DL while here in the 4-3) Imagine a DL of Orakpo, Hayneworth, and Kerrigan (wow explosive) So tell me what he has done?
You edited your answer. Shanahan didn't draft Orakpo. Arguing for keeping Haynesworth isn't helping your arguement.


Im still waiting for you to answer my question. What has this offense looked like since teams have caught on to our scheme and what has Mike done other than get us RG3 since here?
What have they looked like when? The last TWO games? They haven't played very well for TWO games. I agree with you, for TWO games the offense hasn't performed (TWO). You dismiss Shanahan's contributions to the running game because "getting good RBs is a gift he has". So because someone is good at something that shouldn't count? Our depth chart at RB has been completely overhauled with Morris, Royster, and Helu. He acquired a talented young LT in Williams. He brought in Lich at LG, Chester at RG. He signed Garcon and Morgan. He acquired Carriker in a very cheap trade. He signed NT Cofield. He signed Bowen who last year with a healthy front 7 had multiple sacks. He drafted Perry Riley who's a starter. He drafted Kerrigan who's a playmaker on defense. I can go on and on about how much better he's made this team.


He also wasted picks in trading for Mcnabb and Brown. Change a good 4-3 D into a [inappropriate/removed] 3-4 D. Brung in [inappropriate/removed] Hasslet to coach the 3-4 D. Brung in his son as OC who if any where else wouldve been fired with the way our offense has performed these 3 1/2 season same the D coordinator he brung in. Mike has been here since 2010 meaning this he is in the 3rd year as a our HC and we are 1/2 way through the season. Thatz where I get the 3 1/2.
You would subtract that 1/2 making it 2 and 1/2. I can't debate with someone who doesn't understand this.


Ur rite about the 2 1/2. Missed calculating on my part.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Where is this team improving at?


You didn't answer his question halfway through the 3rd year is not 4, almost 5, years into his rebuild.

Reality is our team is extremely young, there's solid talent to build off of there. The defense has been riddled with injuries and needs upgrades, no doubt, but its not as bad as people make it out to be.

And if you can't see the offenses progression then there's no helping you. Laughing


I did, I said I made a mistake in the year thing. If you can't see the set back as well than there's no helping you Very Happy Shannahan and getting good RB's is just a gift he has so him getting Morris is nothing new. Only thing he did was get us in position to get RG3 (thatz it thatz all) Yes we started out strong looking like a good offense, but now teams have caught up to our scheme. What has this offense looked like since then? He drafted two great DE's and turned them into nothing more than average 3-4 OLBS, drove Haynesworth away (we may never wouldve gotten 100 million dollars worth of production from him, but he did help the DL while here in the 4-3) Imagine a DL of Orakpo, Hayneworth, and Kerrigan (wow explosive) So tell me what he has done?
You edited your answer. Shanahan didn't draft Orakpo. Arguing for keeping Haynesworth isn't helping your arguement.


Im still waiting for you to answer my question. What has this offense looked like since teams have caught on to our scheme and what has Mike done other than get us RG3 since here?
What have they looked like when? The last TWO games? They haven't played very well for TWO games. I agree with you, for TWO games the offense hasn't performed (TWO). You dismiss Shanahan's contributions to the running game because "getting good RBs is a gift he has". So because someone is good at something that shouldn't count? Our depth chart at RB has been completely overhauled with Morris, Royster, and Helu. He acquired a talented young LT in Williams. He brought in Lich at LG, Chester at RG. He signed Garcon and Morgan. He acquired Carriker in a very cheap trade. He signed NT Cofield. He signed Bowen who last year with a healthy front 7 had multiple sacks. He drafted Perry Riley who's a starter. He drafted Kerrigan who's a playmaker on defense. I can go on and on about how much better he's made this team.


He also wasted picks in trading for Mcnabb and Brown. Change a good 4-3 D into a [inappropriate/removed] 3-4 D. Brung in [inappropriate/removed] Hasslet to coach the 3-4 D. Brung in his son as OC who if any where else wouldve been fired with the way our offense has performed these 3 1/2 season same the D coordinator he brung in. Mike has been here since 2010 meaning this he is in the 3rd year as a our HC and we are 1/2 way through the season. Thatz where I get the 3 1/2.
You would subtract that 1/2 making it 2 and 1/2. I can't debate with someone who doesn't understand this.


Ur rite about the 2 1/2. Missed calculating on my part.
I'm just as disappointed about losing as you are. I just really think blowing up the coaching staff halfway through a rebuilding process is a bad idea.
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21 ALL THE WAY


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 3305
Location: WASHINGTON DC
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Where is this team improving at?


You didn't answer his question halfway through the 3rd year is not 4, almost 5, years into his rebuild.

Reality is our team is extremely young, there's solid talent to build off of there. The defense has been riddled with injuries and needs upgrades, no doubt, but its not as bad as people make it out to be.

And if you can't see the offenses progression then there's no helping you. Laughing


I did, I said I made a mistake in the year thing. If you can't see the set back as well than there's no helping you Very Happy Shannahan and getting good RB's is just a gift he has so him getting Morris is nothing new. Only thing he did was get us in position to get RG3 (thatz it thatz all) Yes we started out strong looking like a good offense, but now teams have caught up to our scheme. What has this offense looked like since then? He drafted two great DE's and turned them into nothing more than average 3-4 OLBS, drove Haynesworth away (we may never wouldve gotten 100 million dollars worth of production from him, but he did help the DL while here in the 4-3) Imagine a DL of Orakpo, Hayneworth, and Kerrigan (wow explosive) So tell me what he has done?
You edited your answer. Shanahan didn't draft Orakpo. Arguing for keeping Haynesworth isn't helping your arguement.


Im still waiting for you to answer my question. What has this offense looked like since teams have caught on to our scheme and what has Mike done other than get us RG3 since here?
What have they looked like when? The last TWO games? They haven't played very well for TWO games. I agree with you, for TWO games the offense hasn't performed (TWO). You dismiss Shanahan's contributions to the running game because "getting good RBs is a gift he has". So because someone is good at something that shouldn't count? Our depth chart at RB has been completely overhauled with Morris, Royster, and Helu. He acquired a talented young LT in Williams. He brought in Lich at LG, Chester at RG. He signed Garcon and Morgan. He acquired Carriker in a very cheap trade. He signed NT Cofield. He signed Bowen who last year with a healthy front 7 had multiple sacks. He drafted Perry Riley who's a starter. He drafted Kerrigan who's a playmaker on defense. I can go on and on about how much better he's made this team.


He also wasted picks in trading for Mcnabb and Brown. Change a good 4-3 D into a [inappropriate/removed] 3-4 D. Brung in [inappropriate/removed] Hasslet to coach the 3-4 D. Brung in his son as OC who if any where else wouldve been fired with the way our offense has performed these 3 1/2 season same the D coordinator he brung in. Mike has been here since 2010 meaning this he is in the 3rd year as a our HC and we are 1/2 way through the season. Thatz where I get the 3 1/2.
You would subtract that 1/2 making it 2 and 1/2. I can't debate with someone who doesn't understand this.


Ur rite about the 2 1/2. Missed calculating on my part.
I'm just as disappointed about losing as you are. I just really think blowing up the coaching staff halfway through a rebuilding process is a bad idea.


I agree to disagree. I just really don't see Shanahann as the guy to get us to the promise land, I would understand you more so if I saw more production out of this franchise since he's been here. Play-calling on both sides of the ball is a huge thing I think Sean and a new D coordinator would fix rather quickly if the job was wanted by Payton. We have a QB now so just imagine Payton allowing Rg3 to be just as dynamic as Brees instead of this Pistol/Option QB that Rg3 is in Mike's offense. IMO that is hurting Rg3 more than helping.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's not really on the market. The saints will re-sign him.

Dan Snyder isn't going to fire Mike Shanahan either. Although I do agree that Shanahan isn't the greatest coach. I think he deserves to finish his contract.
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Days until: Today; @ Texans 7. Adopt-a-Redskin: Brian Orakpo
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DarrellGreen28


Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
He's not really on the market. The saints will re-sign him.

Dan Snyder isn't going to fire Mike Shanahan either. Although I do agree that Shanahan isn't the greatest coach. I think he deserves to finish his contract.

But why waste 5 years like that? In the NFL, if you aren't doing a good job, you lose your job. And in his three years, Shanahan has gone 6-10, 5-11, and might even go 3-13 and 4-12 this year without having the luxury of a high draft pick. That kind of production is awful. Even Jim Zorn put one 8-8 season out for us.
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FosterTheSkins


Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 487
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarrellGreen28 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
He's not really on the market. The saints will re-sign him.

Dan Snyder isn't going to fire Mike Shanahan either. Although I do agree that Shanahan isn't the greatest coach. I think he deserves to finish his contract.

But why waste 5 years like that? In the NFL, if you aren't doing a good job, you lose your job. And in his three years, Shanahan has gone 6-10, 5-11, and might even go 3-13 and 4-12 this year without having the luxury of a high draft pick. That kind of production is awful. Even Jim Zorn put one 8-8 season out for us.


I do find it worrisome the teams record is getting worse and worse each year. The trend seems to be the more Shanahans fingerprints are on the Skins they turn into smudges. The offense has looked immensely better this season (barring the last two games) but its only looked better since RG3 arrived. Mikes first two years the Skins struggled to put up points and had looked pedestrian at best. Even if the O continues to do well what is it worth if the team isn't winning; making playoff runs?

The Redskins had an awesome Defense the past decade but never made the playoffs on a regular basis. The only difference so far is the roles have reversed the sides of the ball. And heaven forbid something happens to our beloved QB?

We have the same problem as before, it seems, no proper GM who can put the pieces together to form a real, whole team.

The worse part is we have to stick with Shanahan. If we bring in another coach RG3 will have to learn a new offense in his consecutive year. That might have played a part in retarding Jason Campbell's development. And without a doubt you can kiss any chance of a playoff run for sure that year and the year after. Mike has just now gotten a franchise player under center. The best thing to do is let him have at least one more year to work with him.
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Better run better run outrun my QB
All the other Ds with the pumped up scheme
Better run better run faster than RG3.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarrellGreen28 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
He's not really on the market. The saints will re-sign him.

Dan Snyder isn't going to fire Mike Shanahan either. Although I do agree that Shanahan isn't the greatest coach. I think he deserves to finish his contract.

But why waste 5 years like that? In the NFL, if you aren't doing a good job, you lose your job. And in his three years, Shanahan has gone 6-10, 5-11, and might even go 3-13 and 4-12 this year without having the luxury of a high draft pick. That kind of production is awful. Even Jim Zorn put one 8-8 season out for us.
he's built our team through youth the last two seasons as good than anyone since Casserly. Our team is extremely young and developing. Old/patchwork in only a few positions. They need time to develop into a team and as individual players. We are missing our best two receiving options on offense, our best pass rusher and arguably our best DL also. You can't just magically replace hat talent/production with reserves.

I don't think we should be blowing up everything at this point, right in the middle of Shn/Allen rebuilding of the entire franchise... Yeah, no thanks
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Days until: Today; @ Texans 7. Adopt-a-Redskin: Brian Orakpo


Last edited by turtle28 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FosterTheSkins wrote:
DarrellGreen28 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
He's not really on the market. The saints will re-sign him.

Dan Snyder isn't going to fire Mike Shanahan either. Although I do agree that Shanahan isn't the greatest coach. I think he deserves to finish his contract.

But why waste 5 years like that? In the NFL, if you aren't doing a good job, you lose your job. And in his three years, Shanahan has gone 6-10, 5-11, and might even go 3-13 and 4-12 this year without having the luxury of a high draft pick. That kind of production is awful. Even Jim Zorn put one 8-8 season out for us.


I do find it worrisome the teams record is getting worse and worse each year. The trend seems to be the more Shanahans fingerprints are on the Skins they turn into smudges. The offense has looked immensely better this season (barring the last two games) but its only looked better since RG3 arrived. Mikes first two years the Skins struggled to put up points and had looked pedestrian at best. Even if the O continues to do well what is it worth if the team isn't winning; making playoff runs?

The Redskins had an awesome Defense the past decade but never made the playoffs on a regular basis. The only difference so far is the roles have reversed the sides of the ball. And heaven forbid something happens to our beloved QB?

We have the same problem as before, it seems, no proper GM who can put the pieces together to form a real, whole team.

The worse part is we have to stick with Shanahan. If we bring in another coach RG3 will have to learn a new offense in his consecutive year. That might have played a part in retarding Jason Campbell's development. And without a doubt you can kiss any chance of a playoff run for sure that year and the year after. Mike has just now gotten a franchise player under center. The best thing to do is let him have at least one more year to work with him.
great points Foster. I definitely agree. Is that Stephen Davis in your avatar? One of my favorite skins ever
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FosterTheSkins


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Turtle. Yeah its Stephen Davis (one of my all time faves too).
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Better run better run outrun my QB
All the other Ds with the pumped up scheme
Better run better run faster than RG3.
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footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11397
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand impatience, but I see it for what it is and dismiss it. Moving on from Shanahan would be a Dan Snyder move circa early 2000s. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Off-season: Jammal Brown re-injures hip. (Polumbus has struggled)
Pre-season: Lose both starting safeties, reserve NT, #1 and #2 RB (Royster just returned)

Game One: Lose your #1 receiver.
Game Two: Lose your best pass-rusher and top DE.
Game Seven: Lose your starting TE

Other factors:
Griffin is a rookie - yes, he has played better than a rookie, but this playbook is limited to accommodate his learning curve.
London Fletcher's steep decline.
Defensive backs looking lost.

In sum:
The depth of this team is young and/or lacking. When you take away several key starters, any team will have issues. When it is a young team, those issues will be amplified.

No excuses for Haslett and Morris - they should be able to make adjustments, and there seems to be a lot of miscommunication out there. Perhaps the decline of Fletch is a big impact - and he's certainly been picked on by opposing offenses - but there is enough talent to be playing better even with a declining captain.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
I can understand impatience, but I see it for what it is and dismiss it. Moving on from Shanahan would be a Dan Snyder move circa early 2000s. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Off-season: Jammal Brown re-injures hip. (Polumbus has struggled)
Pre-season: Lose both starting safeties, reserve NT, #1 and #2 RB (Royster just returned)

Game One: Lose your #1 receiver.
Game Two: Lose your best pass-rusher and top DE.
Game Seven: Lose your starting TE

Other factors:
Griffin is a rookie - yes, he has played better than a rookie, but this playbook is limited to accommodate his learning curve.
London Fletcher's steep decline.
Defensive backs looking lost.

In sum:
The depth of this team is young and/or lacking. When you take away several key starters, any team will have issues. When it is a young team, those issues will be amplified.

No excuses for Haslett and Morris - they should be able to make adjustments, and there seems to be a lot of miscommunication out there. Perhaps the decline of Fletch is a big impact - and he's certainly been picked on by opposing offenses - but there is enough talent to be playing better even with a declining captain.
agree with everything but the final paragraph.

I'm just wondering where you are seeing this talent on defense? because I'm not. Confused

Bowen- average to good
Cofield- average to good
Jenkins- average to good. Recovering still from missing last year
Jackson- average OLB at best
Fletcher- hamper by injuries
Riley- good Ilb
Kerrigan- good OLB, still developing and really missing Orakpo
DHall- horrible
C Griffin- horrible
Wilson- average. Starts but really like a #3
Doughty- back up material. Good run defender, not vs pass
M Williams- back up material

Where's our talent on defense without Carriker and Orakpo?
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Dashing


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean Payton will be a Cowboys watch.
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mike23md


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dashing wrote:
Sean Payton will be a Cowboys watch.


With the current state of the Cowboys, it could be inevitable that Payton ends up as the Cowboys head coach.
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footy_29


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
I can understand impatience, but I see it for what it is and dismiss it. Moving on from Shanahan would be a Dan Snyder move circa early 2000s. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Off-season: Jammal Brown re-injures hip. (Polumbus has struggled)
Pre-season: Lose both starting safeties, reserve NT, #1 and #2 RB (Royster just returned)

Game One: Lose your #1 receiver.
Game Two: Lose your best pass-rusher and top DE.
Game Seven: Lose your starting TE

Other factors:
Griffin is a rookie - yes, he has played better than a rookie, but this playbook is limited to accommodate his learning curve.
London Fletcher's steep decline.
Defensive backs looking lost.

In sum:
The depth of this team is young and/or lacking. When you take away several key starters, any team will have issues. When it is a young team, those issues will be amplified.

No excuses for Haslett and Morris - they should be able to make adjustments, and there seems to be a lot of miscommunication out there. Perhaps the decline of Fletch is a big impact - and he's certainly been picked on by opposing offenses - but there is enough talent to be playing better even with a declining captain.
agree with everything but the final paragraph.

I'm just wondering where you are seeing this talent on defense? because I'm not. Confused

Bowen- average to good
Cofield- average to good
Jenkins- average to good. Recovering still from missing last year
Jackson- average OLB at best
Fletcher- hamper by injuries
Riley- good Ilb
Kerrigan- good OLB, still developing and really missing Orakpo
DHall- horrible
C Griffin- horrible
Wilson- average. Starts but really like a #3
Doughty- back up material. Good run defender, not vs pass
M Williams- back up material

Where's our talent on defense without Carriker and Orakpo?


Bowen, Cofield, Kerrigan, DeHall, J.Wilson are all talented players. Riley and Zo have played relatively well, Cedric Griffin has not been as bad as advertised (still not great). There are teams with 'worse' personnel who are doing more. Even with Fletcher's decline, this is still an NFL roster and should not be surrendering this much yardage through the air.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
I can understand impatience, but I see it for what it is and dismiss it. Moving on from Shanahan would be a Dan Snyder move circa early 2000s. That's all I'm going to say about that.

Off-season: Jammal Brown re-injures hip. (Polumbus has struggled)
Pre-season: Lose both starting safeties, reserve NT, #1 and #2 RB (Royster just returned)

Game One: Lose your #1 receiver.
Game Two: Lose your best pass-rusher and top DE.
Game Seven: Lose your starting TE

Other factors:
Griffin is a rookie - yes, he has played better than a rookie, but this playbook is limited to accommodate his learning curve.
London Fletcher's steep decline.
Defensive backs looking lost.

In sum:
The depth of this team is young and/or lacking. When you take away several key starters, any team will have issues. When it is a young team, those issues will be amplified.

No excuses for Haslett and Morris - they should be able to make adjustments, and there seems to be a lot of miscommunication out there. Perhaps the decline of Fletch is a big impact - and he's certainly been picked on by opposing offenses - but there is enough talent to be playing better even with a declining captain.
agree with everything but the final paragraph.

I'm just wondering where you are seeing this talent on defense? because I'm not. Confused

Bowen- average to good
Cofield- average to good
Jenkins- average to good. Recovering still from missing last year
Jackson- average OLB at best
Fletcher- hamper by injuries
Riley- good Ilb
Kerrigan- good OLB, still developing and really missing Orakpo
DHall- horrible
C Griffin- horrible
Wilson- average. Starts but really like a #3
Doughty- back up material. Good run defender, not vs pass
M Williams- back up material

Where's our talent on defense without Carriker and Orakpo?


Bowen, Cofield, Kerrigan, DeHall, J.Wilson are all talented players. Riley and Zo have played relatively well, Cedric Griffin has not been as bad as advertised (still not great). There are teams with 'worse' personnel who are doing more. Even with Fletcher's decline, this is still an NFL roster and should not be surrendering this much yardage through the air.


Which brings me back to...

Coaching!!
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