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Sure my outlook is bleak… but at least it’s honest!

 
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3135
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:13 am    Post subject: Sure my outlook is bleak… but at least it’s honest! Reply with quote




Let me pose a question to everyone…

Let’s say the Saints made a huge offseason addition in free agency this year. Say the player was considered one of the best at his position and he came to the team and turned out to be a complete flop.

How would you feel about that player?

What if in interviews when asked about his struggles he would make comments that would lead you to suspect he’s suggesting his problems lie with the scheme and not him himself… Would you let him off the hook?

Would anything that he said be considered a valid excuse or would you hold him accountable to the contract that he signed and expect results?

Would you buy his bull or would you call him a bust?


Why should Spags be treated any different?

Sure Spagnuolo didn’t inherit a defense loaded with star talent but you know what, I’m quite sure he was aware of this. Steve Spagnuolo was not hired in New Orleans to help rebuild a defense, he was hired to patch the leaks and help the Saints win the Superbowl! This was not supposed to be a year of rebuild in New Orleans, sure the Bounty situation threw everything for a loop but Spagnuolo’s job has never changed since his arrival. The bottom line is that Steve Spagnuolo has failed and failed miserably! He has not accomplished what he was brought in here to do and therefore should not be allowed to be a part of any type of rebuild in New Orleans what’s so ever.

Remember what Spagnuolo told Sean Payton immediately after agreeing to terms with the Saints…
Now let’s go win the Superbowl”. This was the goal folks! This was why Spagnuolo was brought in! Do any of us truly believe that if Payton was actually here that we’d actually compete for the title with the league’s worst defense?

A playoff team… sure, I’ll give you that but the Superbowl!

This same old story seems to keep playing over and over again in the Big Easy like a bad broken record and I fear that the loyalty Sean Payton will feel for putting all these coaches in this bad situation will undoubtedly cause us the fans to continue hearing this awful Music!


WHODAT
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a big part of the defensive problems is not a lack of talent, though injuries, limbo, and some pieces not being the best fit doesn't help, but more to do with a lack of Sean Payton.

I said this before, if Payton was here and our offense was clicking the way it's capable, our defense would be much improved. The offense gives the defense swag and Payton is the stunt driver that takes a well made machine do the impossible.

I would give Spags one more year, a year with Payton, if the defense still sucks then you get rid of him, but that shouldn't be a problem.
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TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
I think a big part of the defensive problems is not a lack of talent, though injuries, limbo, and some pieces not being the best fit doesn't help, but more to do with a lack of Sean Payton.

I said this before, if Payton was here and our offense was clicking the way it's capable, our defense would be much improved. The offense gives the defense swag and Payton is the stunt driver that takes a well made machine do the impossible.

I would give Spags one more year, a year with Payton, if the defense still sucks then you get rid of him, but that shouldn't be a problem.


Bottom line Raves, we've had an offense for the last few years that should have won us another Superbowl but the defense has let us down each time. Now if you main goal is to simply make the playoffs, I'll agree with you but if the objective is to win the Superbowl then something major has to change on defense.

Maybe Spags does deserve to be kept around but if he is I can garuntee you that alot of the personnel that is causeing the problems will be as well and it will be the same old song and dance!

Rid yourself of Spags and theres no need (or excuse) to keep the players!

PS: I do find it funny how people are quick to say that Spags just dosent have the right personnel but when he was hired Payton said it was the best fit because our personnel was better off for his 43 defense... Think

We need to stop making excuses and start making corrections!
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Raves wrote:
I think a big part of the defensive problems is not a lack of talent, though injuries, limbo, and some pieces not being the best fit doesn't help, but more to do with a lack of Sean Payton.

I said this before, if Payton was here and our offense was clicking the way it's capable, our defense would be much improved. The offense gives the defense swag and Payton is the stunt driver that takes a well made machine do the impossible.

I would give Spags one more year, a year with Payton, if the defense still sucks then you get rid of him, but that shouldn't be a problem.


Bottom line Raves, we've had an offense for the last few years that should have won us another Superbowl but the defense has let us down each time. Now if you main goal is to simply make the playoffs, I'll agree with you but if the objective is to win the Superbowl then something major has to change on defense.

Maybe Spags does deserve to be kept around but if he is I can garuntee you that alot of the personnel that is causeing the problems will be as well and it will be the same old song and dance!

Rid yourself of Spags and theres no need (or excuse) to keep the players!

PS: I do find it funny how people are quick to say that Spags just dosent have the right personnel but when he was hired Payton said it was the best fit because our personnel was better off for his 43 defense... Think

We need to stop making excuses and start making corrections!


I said some players, not all players. Also our offense when on, it gets an early lead, and early lead with a Spags defense is a good thing, right now we aren't getting those leads, therefore no attacking. Also the Ravens are a team where when the defense starts making plays the offense plays better. The opposite is true for the Saints and have been for years. The offense fuels our defense. With the offense struggling, and it is definitely struggling, the defense will follow with it because they start trying to force the issue with making big plays.

Once again Limbo and injuries have caused issues as well. Smith being less productive in years past, our linebackers being destroyed by injuries so there is no consistency, Vilma being in limbo to play as well which hurt due to our lack of depth at linebacker. Our secondary has also been banged up which causes more issues as well.

Like I said give it one more year, if it still doesn't work you move on.
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TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I said some players, not all players. Also our offense when on, it gets an early lead, and early lead with a Spags defense is a good thing, right now we aren't getting those leads, therefore no attacking. Also the Ravens are a team where when the defense starts making plays the offense plays better. The opposite is true for the Saints and have been for years. The offense fuels our defense. With the offense struggling, and it is definitely struggling, the defense will follow with it because they start trying to force the issue with making big plays.

Once again Limbo and injuries have caused issues as well. Smith being less productive in years past, our linebackers being destroyed by injuries so there is no consistency, Vilma being in limbo to play as well which hurt due to our lack of depth at linebacker. Our secondary has also been banged up which causes more issues as well.

Like I said give it one more year, if it still doesn't work you move on


How about this there T-Raves, Yeah this what I'm gonna call you from this point...

I do agree with you about our offense fueling our defense but honestly, our offense is getting older... Brees will be 34 this offseason and yeah, yeah I know he still has a few years left but let's be real here. The dude has shown us his best and while he'll continue to be one of the better QB's in the leauge over the next few seasons, I don't think he's going to be getting better, I think with each passing season Brees will start to continue to show signs of slowing down.

The reason I'm saying this is because I'm a SAINTS fan, player come and players go but the logo is always the same. I root for the jersey and not the name on the back of it. I don't want our franchise to be run into the ground over the next 2-3 seasons because people are panicing over Brees's closing window... I'm thinking sustained success!

I feel that the route this franchise is taking is not the latter... I just see 1-2 more years of playoff promise followed by some long hard filled recovery years if we don't address how this franchise is being run.

Yes I understand that when you have a franchise QB you take advantage of it but I just feel there is a more intelligent way of doing it then how we currently are. To me it just seems this orginazation has become more about the players and coaches then the logo on the helmet or the city in which it plays.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-Raves...

Not sure if you seen this article,

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcsouth/tag/_/name/sean-payton

Here's hoping that Payton hired the right guy... looks like were in with Spags for the long haul.

PS: Wonder if Bunkley will be a offseason slash??? If it would mean Hicks would start, then i'm all for it!
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I can understand that and I feel we could definitely be looking to make some good moves towards the future, one of the things we need to look at right now is to pick players that are versatile. Guys you feel can work in any scheme.

Corey White is not a guy like that. He's pretty much limited to specific schemes. Cam Jordan is one that I feel is borderline as he can be productive in both but more suited for a 3-4.

Looking towards the draft getting guys like John Hankins, Manti Te'o, Bjoern Werner (I think he could play the JJ Watt role), Star Lotulelei, and a good number of the DBs would be ideal due to their ability to play in different defensive schemes. We just need to stop looking for guys that fit one scheme only.
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2013 Adopt-A-Saint
TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Now I can understand that and I feel we could definitely be looking to make some good moves towards the future, one of the things we need to look at right now is to pick players that are versatile. Guys you feel can work in any scheme.

Corey White is not a guy like that. He's pretty much limited to specific schemes. Cam Jordan is one that I feel is borderline as he can be productive in both but more suited for a 3-4.

Looking towards the draft getting guys like John Hankins, Manti Te'o, Bjoern Werner (I think he could play the JJ Watt role), Star Lotulelei, and a good number of the DBs would be ideal due to their ability to play in different defensive schemes. We just need to stop looking for guys that fit one scheme only.


Honestly T-Raves... We all know our biggest offseaon need is increase the talent at the pass rush position. We keep hearing about how Spags needs guys that fit into what he wants to do defensivly.

With these two being our biggest area of concern... How on earth can we go into this offseason without FA RDE Osi Umenyiora at the absoulte top of our "to get" list?!

He fits both perfectly to a tee... He's on of the leauges top pass rushers, he excells in the same scheme Spags uses and he's in his prime!

To me, this offseason begins and ends with the Saints landing Osi!

How's this for a Spagnuolo front seven...

Sign Osi in free agency, Agree to a restructured deal with Will Smith & Jon Vilma, Trade up and secure Jonathan Hankins in the draft, release Bunkley & McBride, let Ellis walk

Defensive front
LE - Will Smith (lost a step or two as a RE but still possesses power and base to be a good 43 LE and offers more consistant pass rush at the position than Jordan. Might actually see increase in sack totals with a ledgit pass rusher oppsite him for once).

NT - Akiem Hicks (Dude is a beast and is best suited at the nose in Spags scheme. Bunkley is odd man out, hopefully we can trade him in offseason)

DT - Jonathan Hankins (A must get... More interior pressure will open up the outside pass rush on a more consistant bases by creating more one on ones for those guys).

RE - Osi Umenyiora (Gives Spags and Saints EXACTLY what is needed up front and allows Smith to shift to left side, Jordan to move into a joker role along defensive front and opens the Saints options in the draft to choose and target an interior tackle like Hankins instead of chasing an edge rusher. His pressence instantly make the entire front seven better and deeper)!

Rotational Joker Lineman - Cameron Jordan (Would benfit from this the most. This would allow Jordan to not have a true position and allow Spags to rotate the versitle lineman all over the defensive front like he used Tuck in New York).

3rd down pass rushers - Junior Galette & Martez Wilson (This allows these guys to assume the roles they were built for... rushing the passer when we get the lead).


Not bad...

Lofton, Vilma, Hawthorne, Chamberlin & Shanle behind them

Could you imagine... I'm already ready to get my Hicks & Hanks lunch bunch tee made! Laughing
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