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The loss of Orakpo is affecting Kerrigan
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 5909
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
Look, Kerrigan and Orakpo could do very well in the 4-3, but we saw the team in the 4-3 formations fairly extensively at the end of 2011. If you go back to the 4-3, forget about Carriker and Bowen - it really isn't that simple to go back. What I suggest is getting more snaps with 4 DL, and that would be happening if Orakpo was healthy.

PFF has London Fletcher with 14 missed tackles before the Panthers game.

Clearly the defensive coaching staff is going to be changed next year, but Shanahan is right: it's about showing what you can offer. You are a professional who is paid to execute, so let's see who is executing from here on.


Switching back to the 4-3 is not just a snap of the fingers. I understand that. But is Bowen that big of a necessity? Could he not switch to a 5 technique? Could Carriker not do the same and switch to a 3 technique? Alexander and Robinson could play the OLB or move Riley to the Will until Fletcher retires.

Its not as difficult as you might think, but to me Carriker and Bowen are not irreplaceable.


You are essentially rendering Carriker useless in the move, however I believe his contract is structured so as not to be a cap issue moving forward. So, yes, you can do it.

Fletcher will be released this off-season. There will be a $2.8MM cap hit, but it needed to be done because of Mara's vendetta. To rephrase, he's not making $6.2MM next year and they cannot renegotiate it without throwing a wrench into the 2014 and 2015 cap.

This front seven is finally built for the 3-4, I just cannot see Mike Shanahan abandoning it after spending three years building it.

Just for giggles:
LE - Kerrigan, Carriker
NT - Cofield, Jenkins, Neild
UT - Bowen
RE - Orakpo
SLB - Robinson
MLB - Alexander
WLB - Riley

That's how I would see the front seven next year IF a switch was made. I believe the UT position would be a serious concern, and it is arguably the most important position in a 4-3. You would have Bowen, who has never played the position, and no back-up. Carriker isn't a 4-3 UT, Jenkins is suited to a NT role, as is Neild.

lavar703 wrote:
I would release Cofield and Bowen anyway, they're not worth what they're making. I think Carriker and Jenkins could both play well as DT in a 4-3 with Orakpo and Kerrigan rushing off the edges. I honestly think we have better personell to run a 4-3 right now than we do a 3-4, just my opinion though.


You cannot cut them, it would be cap suicide. The cap hit would be 12.4MM between the two of them, and you cannot be doing that when you need to add talent and will be getting another $18MM penalty.

I don't get where the idea that Carriker can play UT is coming from, he failed at it with the Rams. If they switch, they should be trying to trade him.


It's called Free Agency and draft. Same way we added guys to fit the 3-4 scheme we can add guy's to fill the little holes that need to be filled in the 4-3. In this 4-3 scheme you have a massive Pass Rush and Pretty big player's in the middle to stop the run and force pressure up the middle with Cofield, Jenkins, Nield, and Bowen.
But we have limited cap space, which is even more limited by the cap penalty. We also are limited on draft picks due to our new QB. Making a massive personnel change is not feasible.
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
Look, Kerrigan and Orakpo could do very well in the 4-3, but we saw the team in the 4-3 formations fairly extensively at the end of 2011. If you go back to the 4-3, forget about Carriker and Bowen - it really isn't that simple to go back. What I suggest is getting more snaps with 4 DL, and that would be happening if Orakpo was healthy.

PFF has London Fletcher with 14 missed tackles before the Panthers game.

Clearly the defensive coaching staff is going to be changed next year, but Shanahan is right: it's about showing what you can offer. You are a professional who is paid to execute, so let's see who is executing from here on.


Switching back to the 4-3 is not just a snap of the fingers. I understand that. But is Bowen that big of a necessity? Could he not switch to a 5 technique? Could Carriker not do the same and switch to a 3 technique? Alexander and Robinson could play the OLB or move Riley to the Will until Fletcher retires.

Its not as difficult as you might think, but to me Carriker and Bowen are not irreplaceable.


You are essentially rendering Carriker useless in the move, however I believe his contract is structured so as not to be a cap issue moving forward. So, yes, you can do it.

Fletcher will be released this off-season. There will be a $2.8MM cap hit, but it needed to be done because of Mara's vendetta. To rephrase, he's not making $6.2MM next year and they cannot renegotiate it without throwing a wrench into the 2014 and 2015 cap.

This front seven is finally built for the 3-4, I just cannot see Mike Shanahan abandoning it after spending three years building it.

Just for giggles:
LE - Kerrigan, Carriker
NT - Cofield, Jenkins, Neild
UT - Bowen
RE - Orakpo
SLB - Robinson
MLB - Alexander
WLB - Riley

That's how I would see the front seven next year IF a switch was made. I believe the UT position would be a serious concern, and it is arguably the most important position in a 4-3. You would have Bowen, who has never played the position, and no back-up. Carriker isn't a 4-3 UT, Jenkins is suited to a NT role, as is Neild.

lavar703 wrote:
I would release Cofield and Bowen anyway, they're not worth what they're making. I think Carriker and Jenkins could both play well as DT in a 4-3 with Orakpo and Kerrigan rushing off the edges. I honestly think we have better personell to run a 4-3 right now than we do a 3-4, just my opinion though.


You cannot cut them, it would be cap suicide. The cap hit would be 12.4MM between the two of them, and you cannot be doing that when you need to add talent and will be getting another $18MM penalty.

I don't get where the idea that Carriker can play UT is coming from, he failed at it with the Rams. If they switch, they should be trying to trade him.


It's called Free Agency and draft. Same way we added guys to fit the 3-4 scheme we can add guy's to fill the little holes that need to be filled in the 4-3. In this 4-3 scheme you have a massive Pass Rush and Pretty big player's in the middle to stop the run and force pressure up the middle with Cofield, Jenkins, Nield, and Bowen.
But we have limited cap space, which is even more limited by the cap penalty. We also are limited on draft picks due to our new QB. Making a massive personnel change is not feasible.


Your not adding too many player's because guess what you have your Line in place and the LB's are in place. So that leaves you still to fill the wholes that are needed most on the Deffensive side of the ball while we are in the 3-4 witch is the Safety and CB positions.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
Look, Kerrigan and Orakpo could do very well in the 4-3, but we saw the team in the 4-3 formations fairly extensively at the end of 2011. If you go back to the 4-3, forget about Carriker and Bowen - it really isn't that simple to go back. What I suggest is getting more snaps with 4 DL, and that would be happening if Orakpo was healthy.

PFF has London Fletcher with 14 missed tackles before the Panthers game.

Clearly the defensive coaching staff is going to be changed next year, but Shanahan is right: it's about showing what you can offer. You are a professional who is paid to execute, so let's see who is executing from here on.


Switching back to the 4-3 is not just a snap of the fingers. I understand that. But is Bowen that big of a necessity? Could he not switch to a 5 technique? Could Carriker not do the same and switch to a 3 technique? Alexander and Robinson could play the OLB or move Riley to the Will until Fletcher retires.

Its not as difficult as you might think, but to me Carriker and Bowen are not irreplaceable.


You are essentially rendering Carriker useless in the move, however I believe his contract is structured so as not to be a cap issue moving forward. So, yes, you can do it.

Fletcher will be released this off-season. There will be a $2.8MM cap hit, but it needed to be done because of Mara's vendetta. To rephrase, he's not making $6.2MM next year and they cannot renegotiate it without throwing a wrench into the 2014 and 2015 cap.

This front seven is finally built for the 3-4, I just cannot see Mike Shanahan abandoning it after spending three years building it.

Just for giggles:
LE - Kerrigan, Carriker
NT - Cofield, Jenkins, Neild
UT - Bowen
RE - Orakpo
SLB - Robinson
MLB - Alexander
WLB - Riley

That's how I would see the front seven next year IF a switch was made. I believe the UT position would be a serious concern, and it is arguably the most important position in a 4-3. You would have Bowen, who has never played the position, and no back-up. Carriker isn't a 4-3 UT, Jenkins is suited to a NT role, as is Neild.

lavar703 wrote:
I would release Cofield and Bowen anyway, they're not worth what they're making. I think Carriker and Jenkins could both play well as DT in a 4-3 with Orakpo and Kerrigan rushing off the edges. I honestly think we have better personell to run a 4-3 right now than we do a 3-4, just my opinion though.


You cannot cut them, it would be cap suicide. The cap hit would be 12.4MM between the two of them, and you cannot be doing that when you need to add talent and will be getting another $18MM penalty.

I don't get where the idea that Carriker can play UT is coming from, he failed at it with the Rams. If they switch, they should be trying to trade him.


It's called Free Agency and draft. Same way we added guys to fit the 3-4 scheme we can add guy's to fill the little holes that need to be filled in the 4-3. In this 4-3 scheme you have a massive Pass Rush and Pretty big player's in the middle to stop the run and force pressure up the middle with Cofield, Jenkins, Nield, and Bowen.
But we have limited cap space, which is even more limited by the cap penalty. We also are limited on draft picks due to our new QB. Making a massive personnel change is not feasible.


Your not adding too many player's because guess what you have your Line in place and the LB's are in place. So that leaves you still to fill the wholes that are needed most on the Deffensive side of the ball while we are in the 3-4 witch is the Safety and CB positions.
Are we looking at the same lineup? That 4-3 front 7 doesn't work at all.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
Look, Kerrigan and Orakpo could do very well in the 4-3, but we saw the team in the 4-3 formations fairly extensively at the end of 2011. If you go back to the 4-3, forget about Carriker and Bowen - it really isn't that simple to go back. What I suggest is getting more snaps with 4 DL, and that would be happening if Orakpo was healthy.

PFF has London Fletcher with 14 missed tackles before the Panthers game.

Clearly the defensive coaching staff is going to be changed next year, but Shanahan is right: it's about showing what you can offer. You are a professional who is paid to execute, so let's see who is executing from here on.


Switching back to the 4-3 is not just a snap of the fingers. I understand that. But is Bowen that big of a necessity? Could he not switch to a 5 technique? Could Carriker not do the same and switch to a 3 technique? Alexander and Robinson could play the OLB or move Riley to the Will until Fletcher retires.

Its not as difficult as you might think, but to me Carriker and Bowen are not irreplaceable.


You are essentially rendering Carriker useless in the move, however I believe his contract is structured so as not to be a cap issue moving forward. So, yes, you can do it.

Fletcher will be released this off-season. There will be a $2.8MM cap hit, but it needed to be done because of Mara's vendetta. To rephrase, he's not making $6.2MM next year and they cannot renegotiate it without throwing a wrench into the 2014 and 2015 cap.

This front seven is finally built for the 3-4, I just cannot see Mike Shanahan abandoning it after spending three years building it.

Just for giggles:
LE - Kerrigan, Carriker
NT - Cofield, Jenkins, Neild
UT - Bowen
RE - Orakpo
SLB - Robinson
MLB - Alexander
WLB - Riley

That's how I would see the front seven next year IF a switch was made. I believe the UT position would be a serious concern, and it is arguably the most important position in a 4-3. You would have Bowen, who has never played the position, and no back-up. Carriker isn't a 4-3 UT, Jenkins is suited to a NT role, as is Neild.

lavar703 wrote:
I would release Cofield and Bowen anyway, they're not worth what they're making. I think Carriker and Jenkins could both play well as DT in a 4-3 with Orakpo and Kerrigan rushing off the edges. I honestly think we have better personell to run a 4-3 right now than we do a 3-4, just my opinion though.


You cannot cut them, it would be cap suicide. The cap hit would be 12.4MM between the two of them, and you cannot be doing that when you need to add talent and will be getting another $18MM penalty.

I don't get where the idea that Carriker can play UT is coming from, he failed at it with the Rams. If they switch, they should be trying to trade him.


It's called Free Agency and draft. Same way we added guys to fit the 3-4 scheme we can add guy's to fill the little holes that need to be filled in the 4-3. In this 4-3 scheme you have a massive Pass Rush and Pretty big player's in the middle to stop the run and force pressure up the middle with Cofield, Jenkins, Nield, and Bowen.
But we have limited cap space, which is even more limited by the cap penalty. We also are limited on draft picks due to our new QB. Making a massive personnel change is not feasible.


Unless I'm mistaken we can create quite a bit of space by releasing Hall, Fletcher and Moss...
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
Look, Kerrigan and Orakpo could do very well in the 4-3, but we saw the team in the 4-3 formations fairly extensively at the end of 2011. If you go back to the 4-3, forget about Carriker and Bowen - it really isn't that simple to go back. What I suggest is getting more snaps with 4 DL, and that would be happening if Orakpo was healthy.

PFF has London Fletcher with 14 missed tackles before the Panthers game.

Clearly the defensive coaching staff is going to be changed next year, but Shanahan is right: it's about showing what you can offer. You are a professional who is paid to execute, so let's see who is executing from here on.


Switching back to the 4-3 is not just a snap of the fingers. I understand that. But is Bowen that big of a necessity? Could he not switch to a 5 technique? Could Carriker not do the same and switch to a 3 technique? Alexander and Robinson could play the OLB or move Riley to the Will until Fletcher retires.

Its not as difficult as you might think, but to me Carriker and Bowen are not irreplaceable.


You are essentially rendering Carriker useless in the move, however I believe his contract is structured so as not to be a cap issue moving forward. So, yes, you can do it.

Fletcher will be released this off-season. There will be a $2.8MM cap hit, but it needed to be done because of Mara's vendetta. To rephrase, he's not making $6.2MM next year and they cannot renegotiate it without throwing a wrench into the 2014 and 2015 cap.

This front seven is finally built for the 3-4, I just cannot see Mike Shanahan abandoning it after spending three years building it.

Just for giggles:
LE - Kerrigan, Carriker
NT - Cofield, Jenkins, Neild
UT - Bowen
RE - Orakpo
SLB - Robinson
MLB - Alexander
WLB - Riley

That's how I would see the front seven next year IF a switch was made. I believe the UT position would be a serious concern, and it is arguably the most important position in a 4-3. You would have Bowen, who has never played the position, and no back-up. Carriker isn't a 4-3 UT, Jenkins is suited to a NT role, as is Neild.

lavar703 wrote:
I would release Cofield and Bowen anyway, they're not worth what they're making. I think Carriker and Jenkins could both play well as DT in a 4-3 with Orakpo and Kerrigan rushing off the edges. I honestly think we have better personell to run a 4-3 right now than we do a 3-4, just my opinion though.


You cannot cut them, it would be cap suicide. The cap hit would be 12.4MM between the two of them, and you cannot be doing that when you need to add talent and will be getting another $18MM penalty.

I don't get where the idea that Carriker can play UT is coming from, he failed at it with the Rams. If they switch, they should be trying to trade him.


It's called Free Agency and draft. Same way we added guys to fit the 3-4 scheme we can add guy's to fill the little holes that need to be filled in the 4-3. In this 4-3 scheme you have a massive Pass Rush and Pretty big player's in the middle to stop the run and force pressure up the middle with Cofield, Jenkins, Nield, and Bowen.
But we have limited cap space, which is even more limited by the cap penalty. We also are limited on draft picks due to our new QB. Making a massive personnel change is not feasible.


Unless I'm mistaken we can create quite a bit of space by releasing Hall, Fletcher and Moss...
Yet you'd still have those players who can't be released on the roster. What are we going to do carry 7 DTs and not upgrade other positions?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say I am very disappointed in the tone and most of what I am reading the past few weeks in this forum. We went from jubilation and we are heading int the right direction to fire everyone, switch schemes in the matter of a month or so and it makes me scream out WTF!! Ughh Twisted Evil

I don't see Shanahan switching defenses either footy. I'm also not sold we are firing Hasslett, the man needs tools to work with and management hasn't supplied them to him in the secondary. That's on them, not him.

I think Carriker and Bowen can play the UT position. The roles they play now in the 3-4 D are not that much different in my eyes than the responsibilities of a 4-3 UT.

If we were to make the drastic and extreme overreaction move back to the 4-3 D, I would at least give the current group a chance in the scheme. We invested a lot in our front 7 last offseason and this offseason. there would be no reason to blow that up right now, none at all.

The secondary needs upgrades at every position. We might look for one more pass rusher in FA to be a back up over what we currently have, but people are focusing on the ring areas of the D IMO.

Footy, Carriker failed at UT for the rams because he was:

1. A very young and developing player in the league learning a new position
2. He had injury problems as a young player

Now, Carriker is a veteran. He's bigger and stronger than he was 4 and 5 years ago and he's still athletic. He's more experienced at playing in the interior of the defensive line, which he wasn't experienced at for the rams. He's a totally different player than he was then when he played for the rams. Players can improve over time and Carriker has definitely improved since his young, inexperienced and injury riddled days for the Rams.
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footy_29


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turtle: It's a question of pad level and quickness, not experience. Carriker has found his place in the NFL as a 3-4 LE, where his strength and size are put to their optimum use.

If they move to a 4-3, Carriker will have to be traded or released. As I said, that is not the worst thing in the world considering his contract, but it must be accepted that he will no longer with the team. Just as Andre Carter was not a fit in the 3-4, Carriker is not a fit in the 4-3.
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
Look, Kerrigan and Orakpo could do very well in the 4-3, but we saw the team in the 4-3 formations fairly extensively at the end of 2011. If you go back to the 4-3, forget about Carriker and Bowen - it really isn't that simple to go back. What I suggest is getting more snaps with 4 DL, and that would be happening if Orakpo was healthy.

PFF has London Fletcher with 14 missed tackles before the Panthers game.

Clearly the defensive coaching staff is going to be changed next year, but Shanahan is right: it's about showing what you can offer. You are a professional who is paid to execute, so let's see who is executing from here on.


Switching back to the 4-3 is not just a snap of the fingers. I understand that. But is Bowen that big of a necessity? Could he not switch to a 5 technique? Could Carriker not do the same and switch to a 3 technique? Alexander and Robinson could play the OLB or move Riley to the Will until Fletcher retires.

Its not as difficult as you might think, but to me Carriker and Bowen are not irreplaceable.


You are essentially rendering Carriker useless in the move, however I believe his contract is structured so as not to be a cap issue moving forward. So, yes, you can do it.

Fletcher will be released this off-season. There will be a $2.8MM cap hit, but it needed to be done because of Mara's vendetta. To rephrase, he's not making $6.2MM next year and they cannot renegotiate it without throwing a wrench into the 2014 and 2015 cap.

This front seven is finally built for the 3-4, I just cannot see Mike Shanahan abandoning it after spending three years building it.

Just for giggles:
LE - Kerrigan, Carriker
NT - Cofield, Jenkins, Neild
UT - Bowen
RE - Orakpo
SLB - Robinson
MLB - Alexander
WLB - Riley

That's how I would see the front seven next year IF a switch was made. I believe the UT position would be a serious concern, and it is arguably the most important position in a 4-3. You would have Bowen, who has never played the position, and no back-up. Carriker isn't a 4-3 UT, Jenkins is suited to a NT role, as is Neild.

lavar703 wrote:
I would release Cofield and Bowen anyway, they're not worth what they're making. I think Carriker and Jenkins could both play well as DT in a 4-3 with Orakpo and Kerrigan rushing off the edges. I honestly think we have better personell to run a 4-3 right now than we do a 3-4, just my opinion though.


You cannot cut them, it would be cap suicide. The cap hit would be 12.4MM between the two of them, and you cannot be doing that when you need to add talent and will be getting another $18MM penalty.

I don't get where the idea that Carriker can play UT is coming from, he failed at it with the Rams. If they switch, they should be trying to trade him.


It's called Free Agency and draft. Same way we added guys to fit the 3-4 scheme we can add guy's to fill the little holes that need to be filled in the 4-3. In this 4-3 scheme you have a massive Pass Rush and Pretty big player's in the middle to stop the run and force pressure up the middle with Cofield, Jenkins, Nield, and Bowen.
But we have limited cap space, which is even more limited by the cap penalty. We also are limited on draft picks due to our new QB. Making a massive personnel change is not feasible.


Your not adding too many player's because guess what you have your Line in place and the LB's are in place. So that leaves you still to fill the wholes that are needed most on the Deffensive side of the ball while we are in the 3-4 witch is the Safety and CB positions.
Are we looking at the same lineup? That 4-3 front 7 doesn't work at all.


Plz explain how it wouldn't work? Orakpo and Kerrigan coming of the edge with Cofield, Jenkins, and Bowen stuffing the middle preventing the run and also bringing pressure up the middle.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Plz explain how it wouldn't work? Orakpo and Kerrigan coming of the edge with Cofield, Jenkins, and Bowen stuffing the middle preventing the run and also bringing pressure up the middle.
there is no doubt in my mind, it would work but our 3-4 works also when Orakpo and Carriker are healthy. So why blow that up?

I don't know why MKnight82 doesn't realize that we wouldn't keep 7 DTs and we wouldn't have to cut the expensive ones, we'd cut the cheap ones.

In the 4-3 I believe the DTs would be this:

Cofield, Bowen, Carriker, Jenkins

We could use Carriker and Bowen some as a strong side LDE to defend the run better on 1st downs and in short yardage.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
Turtle: It's a question of pad level and quickness, not experience. Carriker has found his place in the NFL as a 3-4 LE, where his strength and size are put to their optimum use.

If they move to a 4-3, Carriker will have to be traded or released. As I said, that is not the worst thing in the world considering his contract, but it must be accepted that he will no longer with the team. Just as Andre Carter was not a fit in the 3-4, Carriker is not a fit in the 4-3.
trading him wouldn't be wise seeing that he is injured. Anyways you and I both know we aren't switching schemes, so we don't have to wood about that.
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Plz explain how it wouldn't work? Orakpo and Kerrigan coming of the edge with Cofield, Jenkins, and Bowen stuffing the middle preventing the run and also bringing pressure up the middle.
there is no doubt in my mind, it would work but our 3-4 works also when Orakpo and Carriker are healthy. So why blow that up?

I don't know why MKnight82 doesn't realize that we wouldn't keep 7 DTs and we wouldn't have to cut the expensive ones, we'd cut the cheap ones.

In the 4-3 I believe the DTs would be this:

Cofield, Bowen, Carriker, Jenkins

We could use Carriker and Bowen some as a strong side LDE to defend the run better on 1st downs and in short yardage.


You say it's works, but I disagree. I don't care what anyone sayz, we don't get the same scary pressure or production from our D as other 3-4 teams thatz why you blow it up. I believe Orakpo and Kerrigan are better DE's than LB's and we are hurting them and ourselves by playing them out of position. Yes they may have adjusted but it doesn't mean they are comfortable or we aren't preventing them from reaching full potential as LB's rather than DE's. Also we would get a huge improvement in Cofield, Jenkins, and Neild as DT's as they stop the run and provide pressure up the middle. With all that pressure consistently the Secondary would not be tested as much and we could actually start looking like a NFL D.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Plz explain how it wouldn't work? Orakpo and Kerrigan coming of the edge with Cofield, Jenkins, and Bowen stuffing the middle preventing the run and also bringing pressure up the middle.
there is no doubt in my mind, it would work but our 3-4 works also when Orakpo and Carriker are healthy. So why blow that up?

I don't know why MKnight82 doesn't realize that we wouldn't keep 7 DTs and we wouldn't have to cut the expensive ones, we'd cut the cheap ones.

In the 4-3 I believe the DTs would be this:

Cofield, Bowen, Carriker, Jenkins

We could use Carriker and Bowen some as a strong side LDE to defend the run better on 1st downs and in short yardage.


You say it's works, but I disagree. I don't care what anyone sayz, we don't get the same scary pressure or production from our D as other 3-4 teams thatz why you blow it up. I believe Orakpo and Kerrigan are better DE's than LB's and we are hurting them and ourselves by playing them out of position. Yes they may have adjusted but it doesn't mean they are comfortable or we aren't preventing them from reaching full potential as LB's rather than DE's. Also we would get a huge improvement in Cofield, Jenkins, and Neild as DT's as they stop the run and provide pressure up the middle. With all that pressure consistently the Secondary would not be tested as much and we could actually start looking like a NFL D.
did we not have constant pressure last year when Orakpo, Kerrigan and Neild were healthy?

In 2011 Weren't we top 5 for most of the year in sacks and pressures and finished tied with 4 teams for 10th in the nfl in sacks?

Or did I just freakin dream that up??

Give me a damn break man. Please. The 3-4 is fine! If orakpo and carriker get healthy, we fix the secondary, we will have a top 15 D again. Maybe top 10
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Plz explain how it wouldn't work? Orakpo and Kerrigan coming of the edge with Cofield, Jenkins, and Bowen stuffing the middle preventing the run and also bringing pressure up the middle.
there is no doubt in my mind, it would work but our 3-4 works also when Orakpo and Carriker are healthy. So why blow that up?

I don't know why MKnight82 doesn't realize that we wouldn't keep 7 DTs and we wouldn't have to cut the expensive ones, we'd cut the cheap ones.

In the 4-3 I believe the DTs would be this:

Cofield, Bowen, Carriker, Jenkins

We could use Carriker and Bowen some as a strong side LDE to defend the run better on 1st downs and in short yardage.


You say it's works, but I disagree. I don't care what anyone sayz, we don't get the same scary pressure or production from our D as other 3-4 teams thatz why you blow it up. I believe Orakpo and Kerrigan are better DE's than LB's and we are hurting them and ourselves by playing them out of position. Yes they may have adjusted but it doesn't mean they are comfortable or we aren't preventing them from reaching full potential as LB's rather than DE's. Also we would get a huge improvement in Cofield, Jenkins, and Neild as DT's as they stop the run and provide pressure up the middle. With all that pressure consistently the Secondary would not be tested as much and we could actually start looking like a NFL D.
did we not have constant pressure last year when Orakpo, Kerrigan and Neild were healthy?

In 2011 Weren't we top 5 for most of the year in sacks and pressures and finished tied with several teams for 10th in the nfl in sacks?

Of did I just freakin dream that up??

Give me a damn break man. Please.


You know how Stats lie sometimes, this is one of those stats. Tell me really would you be afraid to go against our D? Tell me was I D blowing past OLmen like the Panther's did this past week (using 4 linemen and just beating our guys 1 on 1)
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:


You know how Stats lie sometimes, this is one of those stats. Tell me really would you be afraid to go against our D? Tell me was I D blowing past OLmen like the Panther's did this past week (using 4 linemen and just beating our guys 1 on 1)
last year? Yes. It's why we finished 12th in the nfl in pass Defense. It was because of the constant pressure our front 7 put on opposing offenses. Without Orakpo and Carriker we are lacking in that department.

And don't even tell me we were 12th in the nfl in pass defense last year because of our secondary players because that is blatantly false!
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:


You know how Stats lie sometimes, this is one of those stats. Tell me really would you be afraid to go against our D? Tell me was I D blowing past OLmen like the Panther's did this past week (using 4 linemen and just beating our guys 1 on 1)
last year? Yes. It's why we finished 12th in the nfl in pass Defense. It was because of the constant pressure our front 7 put on opposing offenses. Without Orakpo and Carriker we are lacking in that department.

And don't even tell me we were 12th in the nfl in pass defense last year because of our secondary players because that is blatantly false!


Thatz ur opinion but I'll stick to mine. I'm not scared of this D and haven't been for a while. We don't have consistent pass rush (meaning play after play, drive after drive, or game after game) now change the scheme or give me a [inappropriate/removed] coach who can bring out the best in our guys in the 3-4 and maybe my view of things will change. End of discussion.
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