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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: The loss of Orakpo is affecting Kerrigan |
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http://m.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-ryan-kerrigan-seeks-to-produce-sacks-on-a-consistent-basis/2012/11/01/4dda84c6-244d-11e2-92f8-7f9c4daf276a_story.html
Kerrigan is still seeking consistency in his pass rushing. Without Orakpo on the opposite side of him, teams can just key on Kerrigan. When they stop Kerrigan they can mostly stop our pass rush. This is the problem Orakpo faced in 2010 when he didn't have a consistent pass rusher opposite him either.
| Quote: | Defensive coordinator Jim Haslett said that a bulk of Kerrigan’s diminished impact can be attributed to the extra attention teams now devote to him with Orakpo sidelined.
“He’s getting a lot of double-teams, a lot of chips. Last week because of where he was at, the tight end stayed in and blocked,” Haslett said.
“Obviously, it’s a lot easier on him last year when he has ’Rak running around with him,” Haslett added. “But it’s a different dynamic this year. I think he’s doing fine. . . . He’s going to draw attention because he’s the guy, and he’s going to have to overcome some things. We’ve moved him inside, doing different things with him. But when you’re the guy, they’re going to find ways to neutralize you like that.” |
Pretty clear this defense needs Orakpo. Lets hope he and Carriker get healthy and have no set backs next season. We need them, and miss them badly.
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 mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 20; Training camp 64; Eagles @ Redskins 110 RIP SSF
Last edited by turtle28 on Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FosterTheSkins
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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What worries me is Orakpo's injury can be a recurring problem. A pectoral tear can constantly sideline DE's/LB's due to using those muscles so strenuously to pass rush and fighting off massive lineman.
I'm hoping this isn't the case. 
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crunk-colt
Joined: 11 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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I was gonna ask you guys how Kerrigan has been doing this season. I see his sack numbers are low but I assume he is still playing well.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| crunk-colt wrote: | | I was gonna ask you guys how Kerrigan has been doing this season. I see his sack numbers are low but I assume he is still playing well. |
he's playing the same he did last year. If Orakpo were healthy. I Think the tandem would be unblockable. If a carriker were next to him, he'd also be plying better. He's still been our best front 7 defender though
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mike23md
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Brian23
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| This shows what we always thought about Kerrigan, he's never gonna be that elite pass rusher. He'll probably be an elite LB, but not a pure pass rusher. |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Brian23 wrote: | | This shows what we always thought about Kerrigan, he's never gonna be that elite pass rusher. He'll probably be an elite LB, but not a pure pass rusher. |
and that's totally fine. he'll only be a 8 to 10 sack pass rusher every year. I'll take it.
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mike23md
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Brian23 wrote: | | This shows what we always thought about Kerrigan, he's never gonna be that elite pass rusher. |
The same could be said for Orakpo |
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MKnight82
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| I'd say his and Carrikers loss are affecting Bowen too. He was much more effective in applying pressure last season. |
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Brian23
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| Slateman wrote: | | Brian23 wrote: | | This shows what we always thought about Kerrigan, he's never gonna be that elite pass rusher. |
The same could be said for Orakpo |
Oh, I know. Because he couldn't play the year out he's suddenly not a great player. Lets completely ignore the fact that he had gotten much better in run defense and his coverage ability. Its not as like we had much time to see how his pass rushing was doing, but he was rated a Top 5 OLB with Kerrigan before his injury. |
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21 ALL THE WAY
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Kerrigan nor Orakpo will be elite pass rusher's as LB's (at least without proper coaching) IMO, but I would say they'ed be elite pass rusher's as DE's. I know I keep bring this up but it's just because this should be so obvious to us and Mike. Rite now even with Orakpo hurt I think we could apply some pressure with a 4-3 line up with Kerrigan and Bowen as the DE's and Cofield and Jenkins as the DT's.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| 21 ALL THE WAY wrote: | | Kerrigan nor Orakpo will be elite pass rusher's as LB's (at least without proper coaching) IMO, but I would say they'ed be elite pass rusher's as DE's. I know I keep bring this up but it's just because this should be so obvious to us and Mike. Rite now even with Orakpo hurt I think we could apply some pressure with a 4-3 line up with Kerrigan and Bowen as the DE's and Cofield and Jenkins as the DT's. |
theyd be the same as they are as 3-4 OLBs rushing. Bowen is not an outside pass rusher in the 4-3. He'd be a DT. If we ran a 4-3 our D would look like this:
RDE: Jackson
DT: Cofield
DT: Bowen
LDE: Kerrigan
Wlb: Riley
MLB: fletcher
SLB: Alexander
Cb: Wilson, hall
S: doughty, Williams
Please tell me how that defense would be any more productive than the players we have running the 3-4?
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mike23md
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21 ALL THE WAY
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | 21 ALL THE WAY wrote: | | Kerrigan nor Orakpo will be elite pass rusher's as LB's (at least without proper coaching) IMO, but I would say they'ed be elite pass rusher's as DE's. I know I keep bring this up but it's just because this should be so obvious to us and Mike. Rite now even with Orakpo hurt I think we could apply some pressure with a 4-3 line up with Kerrigan and Bowen as the DE's and Cofield and Jenkins as the DT's. |
theyd be the same as they are as 3-4 OLBs rushing. Bowen is not an outside pass rusher in the 4-3. He'd be a DT. If we ran a 4-3 our D would look like this:
RDE: Jackson
DT: Cofield
DT: Bowen
LDE: Kerrigan
Wlb: Riley
MLB: fletcher
SLB: Alexander
Cb: Wilson, hall
S: doughty, Williams
Please tell me how that defense would be any more productive than the players we have running the 3-4? |
The line up I gave you would produce some pressure of the edge with Jenkins and Cofield stopping the run up the middle. Then next year you have Orakpo taken Bowen place and you now have two young and fast pass rusher's of the edge and big bodies in the middle to stop the run. Same way we mix things up in the 3-4 we could do the same in the 4-3 as far as guys moving around playing the DT or DE position. What matter's the most is consistent hands in the dirt rushing the QB and Orakpo and Kerrigan playing the position they feel most comfortable at and IMO it would be in a 4-3. That is what got them drafted in the 1st round. Another thing to add the rush comes quicker in the 4-3 than the 3-4.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| 21 ALL THE WAY wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | 21 ALL THE WAY wrote: | | Kerrigan nor Orakpo will be elite pass rusher's as LB's (at least without proper coaching) IMO, but I would say they'ed be elite pass rusher's as DE's. I know I keep bring this up but it's just because this should be so obvious to us and Mike. Rite now even with Orakpo hurt I think we could apply some pressure with a 4-3 line up with Kerrigan and Bowen as the DE's and Cofield and Jenkins as the DT's. |
theyd be the same as they are as 3-4 OLBs rushing. Bowen is not an outside pass rusher in the 4-3. He'd be a DT. If we ran a 4-3 our D would look like this:
RDE: Jackson
DT: Cofield
DT: Bowen
LDE: Kerrigan
Wlb: Riley
MLB: fletcher
SLB: Alexander
Cb: Wilson, hall
S: doughty, Williams
Please tell me how that defense would be any more productive than the players we have running the 3-4? |
The line up I gave you would produce some pressure of the edge with Jenkins and Cofield stopping the run up the middle. Then next year you have Orakpo taken Bowen place and you now have two young and fast pass rusher's of the edge and big bodies in the middle to stop the run. Same way we mix things up in the 3-4 we could do the same in the 4-3 as far as guys moving around playing the DT or DE position. What matter's the most is consistent hands in the dirt rushing the QB and IMO the rush comes quicker in the 4-3 than the 3-4. |
Bowen is 6'5, 310. He's not a pass rusher off the edge in any scheme. he is an interior DL. Bowen isn't going to give us anything in terms of pass rushing from a 4-3 DE position. He didn't play that in college, didn't play that at Dallas and wasn't brought here to be an edge pass rusher.
The line you set up would be awesome for stopping the run on 1st downs and short yardage, like what the seahawks do with Bryant as a LDE, Branch and Mebane in the middle.
If we went with your line up, we could do that. Then I'd bring in Jackson or Wilson to be a pass rushing specialist opposite Kerrigan on definite passing downs.
This "having their hands in the dirt" thing is so over blown. When they are standing they are already closer to being in their pass rush move than if they had their hand "in the dirt".
The pass rush from the 3-4 is usualy better than from a 4-3 when you have the correct players to run it. There are more pass rushing combinations you can have vs an offenses protection scheme in the 3-4. Again our problem is injuries, not scheme. The steelers, ravens, packers, 49ers and many other teams run a 3-4 and put constant pressure on the qb. The steelers put a lot of pressure on Griffin and they did today vs the giants.
The 4-3 DL is better vs the run usually because of those "hands in the dirt" and the two big DTs in the middle.
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mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 20; Training camp 64; Eagles @ Redskins 110 RIP SSF |
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21 ALL THE WAY
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Location: WASHINGTON DC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | 21 ALL THE WAY wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | 21 ALL THE WAY wrote: | | Kerrigan nor Orakpo will be elite pass rusher's as LB's (at least without proper coaching) IMO, but I would say they'ed be elite pass rusher's as DE's. I know I keep bring this up but it's just because this should be so obvious to us and Mike. Rite now even with Orakpo hurt I think we could apply some pressure with a 4-3 line up with Kerrigan and Bowen as the DE's and Cofield and Jenkins as the DT's. |
theyd be the same as they are as 3-4 OLBs rushing. Bowen is not an outside pass rusher in the 4-3. He'd be a DT. If we ran a 4-3 our D would look like this:
RDE: Jackson
DT: Cofield
DT: Bowen
LDE: Kerrigan
Wlb: Riley
MLB: fletcher
SLB: Alexander
Cb: Wilson, hall
S: doughty, Williams
Please tell me how that defense would be any more productive than the players we have running the 3-4? |
The line up I gave you would produce some pressure of the edge with Jenkins and Cofield stopping the run up the middle. Then next year you have Orakpo taken Bowen place and you now have two young and fast pass rusher's of the edge and big bodies in the middle to stop the run. Same way we mix things up in the 3-4 we could do the same in the 4-3 as far as guys moving around playing the DT or DE position. What matter's the most is consistent hands in the dirt rushing the QB and IMO the rush comes quicker in the 4-3 than the 3-4. |
Bowen is 6'5, 310. He's not a pass rusher off the edge in any scheme. he is an interior DL. Bowen isn't going to give us anything in terms of pass rushing from a 4-3 DE position. He didn't play that in college, didn't play that at Dallas and wasn't brought here to be an edge pass rusher.
The line you set up would be awesome for stopping the run on 1st downs and short yardage, like what the seahawks do with Bryant as a LDE, Branch and Mebane in the middle.
If we went with your line up, we could do that. Then I'd bring in Jackson or Wilson to be a pass rushing specialist opposite Kerrigan on definite passing downs.
This "having their hands in the dirt" thing is so over blown. When they are standing they are already closer to being in their pass rush move than if they had their hand "in the dirt".
The pass rush from the 3-4 is usualy better than from a 4-3 when you have the correct players to run it. There are more pass rushing combinations you can have vs an offenses protection scheme in the 3-4. Again our problem is injuries, not scheme. The steelers, ravens, packers, 49ers and many other teams run a 3-4 and put constant pressure on the qb. The steelers put a lot of pressure on Griffin and they did today vs the giants.
The 4-3 DL is better vs the run usually because of those "hands in the dirt" and the two big DTs in the middle. |
This having the hands in the dirt is what got Orakpo and Andre Carter double digit sack each in Orakpo's rookie year. Also look at what the Panther's did to us today and some of the other teams on the league like the Seahawks, Gaints, and Bears to name a few. We can't stop the run nor the pass so with my line up we both agree at least the run would be contained and we may have a chance at getting to the QB on passing downs aka something we can't do now.
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Brian23
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| 21 ALL THE WAY wrote: | | This having the hands in the dirt is what got Orakpo and Andre Carter double digit sack each in Orakpo's rookie year. Also look at what the Panther's did to us today and some of the other teams on the league like the Seahawks, Gaints, and Bears to name a few. We can't stop the run nor the pass so with my line up we both agree at least the run would be contained and we may have a chance at getting to the QB on passing downs aka something we can't do now. |
Actually, we had been pretty good stoping the run up and until last week.
And going from standing to a 3/4 tech isn't gonna change for people like Rak or Kerrigan who're already use to playing in either. You're seeing what you'd get out of them, your "line up" is literally no different from what we're already running, only stylized differently. |
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