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Week Nine: Buccaneers (3-4) @ Raiders (3-4)
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blaine-stew


Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 103
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure Routt got torched by MW and VJ, but id rather see him than Biggers. Thought the Raiders were gonna come back and win the amount of catches Biggers gave his receiver
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3708
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Stats can be deceiving though. We given up only 13 passing tds but when we went up against a top qb we've been scorched. Bree's threw 4tda and 400 yds. Manning threw for 500 and 3 tds. Then Palmer who is on the downside ripped it up.

Ryan with Julio and roddy with tony G will have a field day if we don't adjust.


I agree but to me Carson's were more about the big play as we were getting burnt on man coverage. The 2 to the TE's weren't on any of the CB's, but the others where getting exposed on single coverage. Not really sure why we kept doing that as we knew they weren't going to run on us. Another big issue yesterday was the ridiculous PI's and other penalties that allowed their drives to continue and put points on the board.

I think we will also scheme a little different for the Falcons then we did for the Raiders.
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best thing about Martin beasting isn't even the running game to me. In my opinion, this is the best thing that could have happened to Freeman. Now teams will have to respect the play action more, and from now on we should see a lot more downfield opportunities, or at least single coverage. I would take VJ and and MWill in a one on one jump ball any day.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 6802
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Stats can be deceiving though. We given up only 13 passing tds but when we went up against a top qb we've been scorched. Bree's threw 4tda and 400 yds. Manning threw for 500 and 3 tds. Then Palmer who is on the downside ripped it up.

Ryan with Julio and roddy with tony G will have a field day if we don't adjust.


I agree but to me Carson's were more about the big play as we were getting burnt on man coverage. The 2 to the TE's weren't on any of the CB's, but the others where getting exposed on single coverage. Not really sure why we kept doing that as we knew they weren't going to run on us. Another big issue yesterday was the ridiculous PI's and other penalties that allowed their drives to continue and put points on the board.

I think we will also scheme a little different for the Falcons then we did for the Raiders.


I'm telling you right now, yes we won, so many things will not be talked about or dissected. But watching that game, and hopefully re-watching, our pass rush is vastly inconsistant. Palmer had too much time. And on the few plays we pressured him, he made terrible throws. We need to do something to get to the QB and that is why Sherridan uses several blitz packages because we weren't getting to Palmer with 4 guys.

At CB, Biggers is awful, and I even said in TC he should be cut. His idea of playing press coverage is not even working the WR off his route and jamming him. He just lets him run with no contact. Myron Lewis? I saw two plays where he tackled the guy out of bounds, allowing the clock to stop, and then, watch the raiders 3rd string RB Blow by him. I mean torch him.

Game plan or not for Atlanta differently, but we can't leave guys on an island against them. We're going to have to rush 4 and hope we get to the QB.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1794
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We get Gaitor back in two weeks. If we bring Routt in after he clears our CB play will be significantly better. Routt has had 2 really horrible games (us and Baltimore) according to PFF. I like Routt vs Jones or White than Biggers. We already seen what happened last year when we tried to play them.

Wright may get suspended too. Johnson-Routt-Wright-Gaitor-Biggers the rest of the year will be painful to watch.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3708
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
YoungBucs15 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Stats can be deceiving though. We given up only 13 passing tds but when we went up against a top qb we've been scorched. Bree's threw 4tda and 400 yds. Manning threw for 500 and 3 tds. Then Palmer who is on the downside ripped it up.

Ryan with Julio and roddy with tony G will have a field day if we don't adjust.


I agree but to me Carson's were more about the big play as we were getting burnt on man coverage. The 2 to the TE's weren't on any of the CB's, but the others where getting exposed on single coverage. Not really sure why we kept doing that as we knew they weren't going to run on us. Another big issue yesterday was the ridiculous PI's and other penalties that allowed their drives to continue and put points on the board.

I think we will also scheme a little different for the Falcons then we did for the Raiders.


I'm telling you right now, yes we won, so many things will not be talked about or dissected. But watching that game, and hopefully re-watching, our pass rush is vastly inconsistant. Palmer had too much time. And on the few plays we pressured him, he made terrible throws. We need to do something to get to the QB and that is why Sherridan uses several blitz packages because we weren't getting to Palmer with 4 guys.

At CB, Biggers is awful, and I even said in TC he should be cut. His idea of playing press coverage is not even working the WR off his route and jamming him. He just lets him run with no contact. Myron Lewis? I saw two plays where he tackled the guy out of bounds, allowing the clock to stop, and then, watch the raiders 3rd string RB Blow by him. I mean torch him.

Game plan or not for Atlanta differently, but we can't leave guys on an island against them. We're going to have to rush 4 and hope we get to the QB.


I know that our pass rush is what causes our lack of CB to be exposed. And I'm not trying to stick up for any of our CB's outside of Leonard. I'm not sure how Lewis or McDonald have stuck around as long as they have.

I understand why we were blitzing so much and that won't work on Ryan either. What i'm saying is we shouldn't be stacking the box as much and bring more blitzes from the LB, get Watson more involved. While Black hasn't done bad enough for us to bring him up much this year, we need someone that will also help make those splash plays on defense. We are close to turning that corner with the TFL's but we need to create some more sacks to truly take that next step as a defense.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 6802
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
We get Gaitor back in two weeks. If we bring Routt in after he clears our CB play will be significantly better. Routt has had 2 really horrible games (us and Baltimore) according to PFF. I like Routt vs Jones or White than Biggers. We already seen what happened last year when we tried to play them.

Wright may get suspended too. Johnson-Routt-Wright-Gaitor-Biggers the rest of the year will be painful to watch.


Our defensive line has to step up and put some heat on the QB over the next 8 weeks. I seriously think, with having 8 games left, with all of them winnable, we have a shot at a wild-card, especially with Minnesota falling and Seattle, struggling away from home, and Washington and Dallas crumbling.

Our CBs are putrid, except Leonard Johnson, who has been very good. Gaitor is an unknown with very little experience. Biggers, Wright, and Lewis are terrible. Our defensive Line needs to help them out a bit, and they haven't. Like every good coach says, it all starts up front. We can stop the run, but we can't get to the QB? I understand injuries and that Bowers still isn't 100% confident testing that ankle through cuts and going full speed, but they need to step it up and get to the QB.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1794
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
indifference wrote:
We get Gaitor back in two weeks. If we bring Routt in after he clears our CB play will be significantly better. Routt has had 2 really horrible games (us and Baltimore) according to PFF. I like Routt vs Jones or White than Biggers. We already seen what happened last year when we tried to play them.

Wright may get suspended too. Johnson-Routt-Wright-Gaitor-Biggers the rest of the year will be painful to watch.


Our defensive line has to step up and put some heat on the QB over the next 8 weeks. I seriously think, with having 8 games left, with all of them winnable, we have a shot at a wild-card, especially with Minnesota falling and Seattle, struggling away from home, and Washington and Dallas crumbling.

Our CBs are putrid, except Leonard Johnson, who has been very good. Gaitor is an unknown with very little experience. Biggers, Wright, and Lewis are terrible. Our defensive Line needs to help them out a bit, and they haven't. Like every good coach says, it all starts up front. We can stop the run, but we can't get to the QB? I understand injuries and that Bowers still isn't 100% confident testing that ankle through cuts and going full speed, but they need to step it up and get to the QB.

If we can go 5-3 the rest of the way, what's the chances we get in at 9-7? Hopefully a wildcard birth but I'm skeptical with that secondary. I feel like the offense is dangerous enough to carry us into the playoffs. We still have Vick, Newton, Manning, Rivers, Brees again, and Ryan twice to face. All in all, this team has played against some GREAT QB's this year. It really showed us how bad our CB play really is. I agree with you, we need the defensive line to turn it up and just flat out ball out to help us out. Throw Watson in there at times at RDE for some speed off the edge.
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2611
Location: Leola
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
indifference wrote:
We get Gaitor back in two weeks. If we bring Routt in after he clears our CB play will be significantly better. Routt has had 2 really horrible games (us and Baltimore) according to PFF. I like Routt vs Jones or White than Biggers. We already seen what happened last year when we tried to play them.

Wright may get suspended too. Johnson-Routt-Wright-Gaitor-Biggers the rest of the year will be painful to watch.


Our defensive line has to step up and put some heat on the QB over the next 8 weeks. I seriously think, with having 8 games left, with all of them winnable, we have a shot at a wild-card, especially with Minnesota falling and Seattle, struggling away from home, and Washington and Dallas crumbling.

Our CBs are putrid, except Leonard Johnson, who has been very good. Gaitor is an unknown with very little experience. Biggers, Wright, and Lewis are terrible. Our defensive Line needs to help them out a bit, and they haven't. Like every good coach says, it all starts up front. We can stop the run, but we can't get to the QB? I understand injuries and that Bowers still isn't 100% confident testing that ankle through cuts and going full speed, but they need to step it up and get to the QB.

If we can go 5-3 the rest of the way, what's the chances we get in at 9-7? Hopefully a wildcard birth but I'm skeptical with that secondary. I feel like the offense is dangerous enough to carry us into the playoffs. We still have Vick, Newton, Manning, Rivers, Brees again, and Ryan twice to face. All in all, this team has played against some GREAT QB's this year. It really showed us how bad our CB play really is. I agree with you, we need the defensive line to turn it up and just flat out ball out to help us out. Throw Watson in there at times at RDE for some speed off the edge.


No offense, but I have seen enough of Dakota Watson over the last 3 years to tell me he won't help the pass rush. The best chance for the pass rush to improve from the DE position is for Bowers to get back into football shape, which will happen in time. I think he is playing very well considering he had no training camp this year. If you want to take a shot in the dark, give Aaron Morgan a shot. Watson is much like Heyward, a special teamer and back-up. Important roles, but to expect more I feel is a little unrealistic.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 6802
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really don't know what Watson would do. Every time I saw him in on pass rush situations he was pretty much ineffective.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 6802
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
indifference wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
indifference wrote:
We get Gaitor back in two weeks. If we bring Routt in after he clears our CB play will be significantly better. Routt has had 2 really horrible games (us and Baltimore) according to PFF. I like Routt vs Jones or White than Biggers. We already seen what happened last year when we tried to play them.

Wright may get suspended too. Johnson-Routt-Wright-Gaitor-Biggers the rest of the year will be painful to watch.


Our defensive line has to step up and put some heat on the QB over the next 8 weeks. I seriously think, with having 8 games left, with all of them winnable, we have a shot at a wild-card, especially with Minnesota falling and Seattle, struggling away from home, and Washington and Dallas crumbling.

Our CBs are putrid, except Leonard Johnson, who has been very good. Gaitor is an unknown with very little experience. Biggers, Wright, and Lewis are terrible. Our defensive Line needs to help them out a bit, and they haven't. Like every good coach says, it all starts up front. We can stop the run, but we can't get to the QB? I understand injuries and that Bowers still isn't 100% confident testing that ankle through cuts and going full speed, but they need to step it up and get to the QB.

If we can go 5-3 the rest of the way, what's the chances we get in at 9-7? Hopefully a wildcard birth but I'm skeptical with that secondary. I feel like the offense is dangerous enough to carry us into the playoffs. We still have Vick, Newton, Manning, Rivers, Brees again, and Ryan twice to face. All in all, this team has played against some GREAT QB's this year. It really showed us how bad our CB play really is. I agree with you, we need the defensive line to turn it up and just flat out ball out to help us out. Throw Watson in there at times at RDE for some speed off the edge.


No offense, but I have seen enough of Dakota Watson over the last 3 years to tell me he won't help the pass rush. The best chance for the pass rush to improve from the DE position is for Bowers to get back into football shape, which will happen in time. I think he is playing very well considering he had no training camp this year. If you want to take a shot in the dark, give Aaron Morgan a shot. Watson is much like Heyward, a special teamer and back-up. Important roles, but to expect more I feel is a little unrealistic.


Thank you. Pretty much wht I was getting at.

I think the thing with Bowers is not in 100% football shape but also trust and confidence in going full speed coming off that injury. Don't know if he feels confident in going full force bc a more than a few times he looked a little slow getting off the ball but I think that will improve as the year goes on. I like how his snaps are limited to ease him back.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3708
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
indifference wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
indifference wrote:
We get Gaitor back in two weeks. If we bring Routt in after he clears our CB play will be significantly better. Routt has had 2 really horrible games (us and Baltimore) according to PFF. I like Routt vs Jones or White than Biggers. We already seen what happened last year when we tried to play them.

Wright may get suspended too. Johnson-Routt-Wright-Gaitor-Biggers the rest of the year will be painful to watch.


Our defensive line has to step up and put some heat on the QB over the next 8 weeks. I seriously think, with having 8 games left, with all of them winnable, we have a shot at a wild-card, especially with Minnesota falling and Seattle, struggling away from home, and Washington and Dallas crumbling.

Our CBs are putrid, except Leonard Johnson, who has been very good. Gaitor is an unknown with very little experience. Biggers, Wright, and Lewis are terrible. Our defensive Line needs to help them out a bit, and they haven't. Like every good coach says, it all starts up front. We can stop the run, but we can't get to the QB? I understand injuries and that Bowers still isn't 100% confident testing that ankle through cuts and going full speed, but they need to step it up and get to the QB.

If we can go 5-3 the rest of the way, what's the chances we get in at 9-7? Hopefully a wildcard birth but I'm skeptical with that secondary. I feel like the offense is dangerous enough to carry us into the playoffs. We still have Vick, Newton, Manning, Rivers, Brees again, and Ryan twice to face. All in all, this team has played against some GREAT QB's this year. It really showed us how bad our CB play really is. I agree with you, we need the defensive line to turn it up and just flat out ball out to help us out. Throw Watson in there at times at RDE for some speed off the edge.


No offense, but I have seen enough of Dakota Watson over the last 3 years to tell me he won't help the pass rush. The best chance for the pass rush to improve from the DE position is for Bowers to get back into football shape, which will happen in time. I think he is playing very well considering he had no training camp this year. If you want to take a shot in the dark, give Aaron Morgan a shot. Watson is much like Heyward, a special teamer and back-up. Important roles, but to expect more I feel is a little unrealistic.


Thank you. Pretty much wht I was getting at.

I think the thing with Bowers is not in 100% football shape but also trust and confidence in going full speed coming off that injury. Don't know if he feels confident in going full force bc a more than a few times he looked a little slow getting off the ball but I think that will improve as the year goes on. I like how his snaps are limited to ease him back.


I don't think any of us are talking about using Watson as a lineman, or least i'm not. Im talking about using him more as a blitzing back. The few times i saw him in this last game was with his hands in the dirt and going right at a tackle. He brings a lot more speed off the edge than Black. Line Watson over bowers and have them both come off the edge and make that tackle choose, that is how I want them to use Watson. Not this hands in the dirt rushing crap I saw in Oakland. Other than that i haven't seen him get used that much or in the manner i'm speaking of. In the past when we have done that he has been more effective than Black.

Bowers will slowly get back into the flow of it and unfortunately will probably be getting back into the stride of things towards the end of the year. Good news for next year but not too much this year.

I think as the season goes on and if we fall out of the playoff race, I would think we would start seeing a bigger variety of players getting called up to see what they have and to evaluate them in real game time situations.
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