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Salary Cap Hell OR How we can get under and sign Wallace
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2054
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Salary Cap Hell OR How we can get under and sign Wallace Reply with quote

We're estimated to be $24m over. One site says we can restructure veteran contracts again and clear $34m, that gives us $10m to play with but we need $6m to sign our draft picks so, really, we'll only have $4m extra.

Free Agents We Need to Sign in 2013: total $19.1m needed

WR Wallace, deal worth $8.4m a yr, exact same as Brown's contract
CB Keenan Lewis, deal worth about $2m yr
OG/OT Ramon Foster, deal worth about $1.5m yr
RB Jonathan Dwyer, deal worth about $1.3m yr
DT Steve McLendon, deal worth about $1.3m yr
RB Isaac Redman, deal worth about $1.3m yr
WR Emmanuel Sanders, deal worth $1.3m yr, take it or leave it
ILB Brandon Johnson, deal worth $1m yr
ILB Stevenson Sylvester, deal worth league minimum, $500k
C/OG Doug Legursky, league minimum, $500k

So, if we sign the above free agents for the amounts listed and use our $4m extra cap space we still need to come up with another $15.1m in cap room.

Proposed Cuts:
OLB Harrison saves $5m
CB Taylor saves $4.1m
DE Keisel saves $3m
K Suisham saves $1.7m
OLB Worilds saves $900k
RB Batch saves $500k

Cutting the above players saves $15.2m but we won't have the cap space to sign the following players to new contracts:

RB Rashard Mendenhall
ILB Larry Foote
NT Casey Hampton
S Ryan Mundy
QB Charlie Batch

We can keep Mendenhall and Taylor if we decide to let Wallace go and become a free agent.

Also, as far as cutting Willie Colon goes, if we cut him before June 1 it only saves $1.2m but if we wait until after June 1st it saves $5.5m against the 2013 cap. So, I would cut Colon after June 1st and then use the $5.5m to sign either an RB or CB free agent.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49729
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Youre delusional if you think Wallace is going to take the same contract as Brown. He'll test free agency and make an extra $20 million with another team.

There is no realistic situation I can see us resigning Wallace. Ill be happy (ish) if we do, but I dont see it.

They need to resign Foote at this point. We have nothing else there thats starting quality.

Mostly everything else I agree with.
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm perfectly okay with Wallace leaving because then we can keep RB Mendenhall and CB Taylor and probably get a third round compensatory pick for Wallace in the next draft.

I wouldn't offer Wallace anything more than AB's contract. Their stats are almost exact, few more receptions for Brown but more TD's for Wallace and I'm sure Colbert will mention the 4 drops Wallace had in one game to Wallace's agent.

Also, if Wallace goes we'll know by draft day and we can use a draft pick, maybe as high as a 3rd, on a WR.

If Foote would be willing to sign for much less than the $3.6m he's getting this year they could certainly get it done but that would mean another player they would have to cut.

Also, just to be clear, we won't be able to resign S Will Allen or S Ryan Mundy either. If we keep Golden then really we'd only need to get one Safety in the draft.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 2216
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, Mike Wallace's value IN this offense is less than Antonio Brown's. I don't want to be that guy, but Mike Wallace may be a system WR where he thrive off offense that coverts big plays just like Randy Moss only Moss is much more talented at younger age.

I'd let him walk, but also let Mendenhall and Taylor walk though. It seem bad, but we have been tied up to bad moneys for a whie now, it's time to cut the fat from cow and keep the steak.

Brighter side; we may get three third round compensatory picks!

Reason why I'm totally fine with letting them go; that way they could test the water and if it's still brown with algae, they are welcome to come back like Mac Starks. We have been fortunate with Max Starks, it's time to be fortunate with other players.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9957
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Re: Salary Cap Hell OR How we can get under and sign Wallace Reply with quote

Dook wrote:


Free Agents We Need to Sign in 2013: total $19.1m needed

WR Wallace, deal worth $8.4m a yr, exact same as Brown's contract he'll want more and get it elsewhere I"m sure
CB Keenan Lewis, deal worth about $2m yr
OG/OT Ramon Foster, deal worth about $1.5m yr
RB Jonathan Dwyer, deal worth about $1.3m yr
DT Steve McLendon, deal worth about $1.3m yr
RB Isaac Redman, deal worth about $1.3m yr
WR Emmanuel Sanders, deal worth $1.3m yr, take it or leave it I'm with you, but don't be surprised if he leaves it
ILB Brandon Johnson, deal worth $1m yr
ILB Stevenson Sylvester, deal worth league minimum, $500k
C/OG Doug Legursky, league minimum, $500k we tagged him this past season. He'll be getting a lot more than that, and we can't afford not to have him. Triple that salary.

So, if we sign the above free agents for the amounts listed and use our $4m extra cap space we still need to come up with another $15.1m in cap room.

Proposed Cuts:
OLB Harrison saves $5m
CB Taylor saves $4.1m zero chance
DE Keisel saves $3m I agree, but if LeBeau stays, so will Keisel
K Suisham saves $1.7m
OLB Worilds saves $900k no reason to cut him. 900k is cheap, he's shown competency on the left side, and he's a 2nd rounder. He's not going anywhere
RB Batch saves $500k

Cutting the above players saves $15.2m but we won't have the cap space to sign the following players to new contracts:

RB Rashard Mendenhall
ILB Larry Foote
NT Casey Hampton are you out of your frickin' mind? He's DONE. He is terrible this season, aside from 2-3 plays per game. No. Hell no. Good bye snack, you were a great warrior for us and the 2nd best DT we've ever had, but it's time for you to get on with your life's work
S Ryan Mundy no.
QB Charlie Batch

We can keep Mendenhall and Taylor if we decide to let Wallace go and become a free agent.

Also, as far as cutting Willie Colon goes, if we cut him before June 1 it only saves $1.2m but if we wait until after June 1st it saves $5.5m against the 2013 cap. So, I would cut Colon after June 1st and then use the $5.5m to sign either an RB or CB free agent.


regarding Colon, we won't cut him and if he continues to improve as he has the last 2 games, then I wouldn't want to cut him
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree Kethy, keep Worilds and release Johnson.
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waffles7


Joined: 18 Feb 2010
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are just a few random thoughts from me:

1.) I think Harrison must work something out with our front office. I know hes nowhere near the level he was at before but the thought of Worilds and/or Carter out there scares the crap out of me. Carter blows against the run and I seriously am a Worilds hater, I hated the pick since day one and feel he goes absolutely ghost when he is presented the opportunity to shine. On the other hand Im not willing to pay Harrison top dollar either. I'd love to work something out or cut him and sign him back for less if we can come to that agreement so he doesnt have to leave town.

2.) Were arent going to cut Taylor nor is he taking a pay cut he's here for good next year and while he isnt an elite CB and is having somewhat of a down year he's still the best we have until Lewis or Allen and consistantly prove otherwise. Ike maybe a bit over payed to some of you but in my eyes doesnt deserve a pay cut unlike other memebers of this team.

3.) Keisel. He as stepped it up the past 2 games which has been nice to see BUT I am all for giving Heyward more time to show case what he has to offer as this defense begins to turn the chapter. What I seen of Heyward so far I like and while he may not be on Keisel's level just yet I feel he has the potential to be soon. With that said I also dont see the front office letting him go. Great teammate, solid player, and oh and a tremendous beard. Will be interesting to see how that plays out, still wonder if they let Hampton either retire next yr or go somewhere else and plug Ziggy in at NT on their base 3-4 packages.

4.) I hate jumping the gun on a player after a game or 2 but every time Dwyer has had the opportunity he has answered the call. I love his style. Not as fast as Mendy but faster than Redman, not as strong as Redman but stronger than Mendy. I love the one cut and go! I think he is the back of the future and while it does suck to let Mendy go with him being a former 1st rounder and all Id save the money and lock Dwyer up for a few seasons and let the backfield of Dwyer-Rainey-Batch continue to grow.

5.) I am a pretty big Ramon Foster fan and have been since his rookie year honestly. I think he is a very solid guard and feel he constantly gets over looked by this coaching staff. I know he isnt great (3Rivers) but he has been serviceable non the less these past 4 seasons so if it is true, Id cut Colon the day we could save 5.5 million and move Foster over to LG, obviously giving DeCastro his job back at RG. Resign Legs to be the man in the middle in time of need too.

6.) Lastly I do want to keep Wallace, I feel some on here over look this season because he isnt putting up his normal 700 yd, 6 TD, 10 20yd+ stats like you want but besides the Cincy game he's been solid. The offense handcuffs his talents a bit as they do Bens but I'll take if if it mean Ben is off his back and not risking injury. Back to Wallace, 460 yds and 4 TDs inst bad. If the money works out I do hope we lock him up long term and I am one who believes we should pay him more than Brown. When I was at the game Sunday I noticed more than once that safety Washignton has playing up top would help slide coverage Wallace's way to eliminate the big play and that as a result freed up Brown, Heath, Sanders, etc....The man is talent and deserves a pay day, Fitzgerald like? No but cant ignore the fact he needs paid and for whoever says they'd be unhappy with him being resigned is a bit crazy if you ask me. Id also like to see Heath locked up too.
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Salary Cap Hell OR How we can get under and sign Wallace Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Dook wrote:


Free Agents We Need to Sign in 2013: total $19.1m needed

WR Wallace, deal worth $8.4m a yr, exact same as Brown's contract he'll want more and get it elsewhere I"m sure
CB Keenan Lewis, deal worth about $2m yr
OG/OT Ramon Foster, deal worth about $1.5m yr
RB Jonathan Dwyer, deal worth about $1.3m yr
DT Steve McLendon, deal worth about $1.3m yr
RB Isaac Redman, deal worth about $1.3m yr
WR Emmanuel Sanders, deal worth $1.3m yr, take it or leave it I'm with you, but don't be surprised if he leaves it
ILB Brandon Johnson, deal worth $1m yr
ILB Stevenson Sylvester, deal worth league minimum, $500k
C/OG Doug Legursky, league minimum, $500k we tagged him this past season. He'll be getting a lot more than that, and we can't afford not to have him. Triple that salary.

So, if we sign the above free agents for the amounts listed and use our $4m extra cap space we still need to come up with another $15.1m in cap room.

Proposed Cuts:
OLB Harrison saves $5m
CB Taylor saves $4.1m zero chance
DE Keisel saves $3m I agree, but if LeBeau stays, so will Keisel
K Suisham saves $1.7m
OLB Worilds saves $900k no reason to cut him. 900k is cheap, he's shown competency on the left side, and he's a 2nd rounder. He's not going anywhere
RB Batch saves $500k

Cutting the above players saves $15.2m but we won't have the cap space to sign the following players to new contracts:

RB Rashard Mendenhall
ILB Larry Foote
NT Casey Hampton are you out of your frickin' mind? He's DONE. He is terrible this season, aside from 2-3 plays per game. No. Hell no. Good bye snack, you were a great warrior for us and the 2nd best DT we've ever had, but it's time for you to get on with your life's work
S Ryan Mundy no.
QB Charlie Batch

We can keep Mendenhall and Taylor if we decide to let Wallace go and become a free agent.

Also, as far as cutting Willie Colon goes, if we cut him before June 1 it only saves $1.2m but if we wait until after June 1st it saves $5.5m against the 2013 cap. So, I would cut Colon after June 1st and then use the $5.5m to sign either an RB or CB free agent.


regarding Colon, we won't cut him and if he continues to improve as he has the last 2 games, then I wouldn't want to cut him


Wallace will want more than the $8.4m? Yeah, he turned down the one for $10m a year so that's probably correct unless he has a down year. Still, we can probably swing the $10m a year deal but we couldn't sign Legursky, Sylvester, and maybe ILB Johnson.

WR Sanders won't take the $1.3m a year deal? Probably not and it wouldn't bother me a bit. His receptions per game avg is something like 2.5. He's not worth anything more than league minimum. I think Gilreath can easily give us at least 2.5 receptions per game.

Legursky can do okay against certain teams and others he's just outmatched. I wouldn't give him much more than league minimum, mostly because we just can't. If he goes then Beachum and a draft pick will have to be our backup OG's, maybe promote Ryan Lee from the practice squad.

Zero chance we cut Taylor? Then zero chance we keep Wallace. I'm just showing it's possible.

I can't see them keeping Keisel when we're over the cap and have a 1st rounder behind him waiting to get on the field. To me, Keisel is the most obvious cut, even moreso than Harrison.

No reason to cut Worilds? There are many ways we can do it but we have to make room and $900k is $900k. We could maybe keep Worilds if we cut CB Brown and got a new cheaper long snapper.

I think you misunderstood the bottom list of players which includes Hampton, we WON'T be able to sign them. I just posted them so people can get an idea of which position players we'll need to look at in the draft.

I know they won't cut Colon but I would cut him after June 1st and use the $5.5m to sign a free agent. Foster can start at LG.
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kysteeler


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 847
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a good look at what would need to be done.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/08/an-early-look-at-the-steelers-2013-salary-cap-situation/
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2054
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

waffles7 wrote:
Here are just a few random thoughts from me:

1.) I think Harrison must work something out with our front office. I know hes nowhere near the level he was at before but the thought of Worilds and/or Carter out there scares the crap out of me. Carter blows against the run and I seriously am a Worilds hater, I hated the pick since day one and feel he goes absolutely ghost when he is presented the opportunity to shine. On the other hand Im not willing to pay Harrison top dollar either. I'd love to work something out or cut him and sign him back for less if we can come to that agreement so he doesnt have to leave town.

2.) Were arent going to cut Taylor nor is he taking a pay cut he's here for good next year and while he isnt an elite CB and is having somewhat of a down year he's still the best we have until Lewis or Allen and consistantly prove otherwise. Ike maybe a bit over payed to some of you but in my eyes doesnt deserve a pay cut unlike other memebers of this team.

3.) Keisel. He as stepped it up the past 2 games which has been nice to see BUT I am all for giving Heyward more time to show case what he has to offer as this defense begins to turn the chapter. What I seen of Heyward so far I like and while he may not be on Keisel's level just yet I feel he has the potential to be soon. With that said I also dont see the front office letting him go. Great teammate, solid player, and oh and a tremendous beard. Will be interesting to see how that plays out, still wonder if they let Hampton either retire next yr or go somewhere else and plug Ziggy in at NT on their base 3-4 packages.

4.) I hate jumping the gun on a player after a game or 2 but every time Dwyer has had the opportunity he has answered the call. I love his style. Not as fast as Mendy but faster than Redman, not as strong as Redman but stronger than Mendy. I love the one cut and go! I think he is the back of the future and while it does suck to let Mendy go with him being a former 1st rounder and all Id save the money and lock Dwyer up for a few seasons and let the backfield of Dwyer-Rainey-Batch continue to grow.

5.) I am a pretty big Ramon Foster fan and have been since his rookie year honestly. I think he is a very solid guard and feel he constantly gets over looked by this coaching staff. I know he isnt great (3Rivers) but he has been serviceable non the less these past 4 seasons so if it is true, Id cut Colon the day we could save 5.5 million and move Foster over to LG, obviously giving DeCastro his job back at RG. Resign Legs to be the man in the middle in time of need too.

6.) Lastly I do want to keep Wallace, I feel some on here over look this season because he isnt putting up his normal 700 yd, 6 TD, 10 20yd+ stats like you want but besides the Cincy game he's been solid. The offense handcuffs his talents a bit as they do Bens but I'll take if if it mean Ben is off his back and not risking injury. Back to Wallace, 460 yds and 4 TDs inst bad. If the money works out I do hope we lock him up long term and I am one who believes we should pay him more than Brown. When I was at the game Sunday I noticed more than once that safety Washignton has playing up top would help slide coverage Wallace's way to eliminate the big play and that as a result freed up Brown, Heath, Sanders, etc....The man is talent and deserves a pay day, Fitzgerald like? No but cant ignore the fact he needs paid and for whoever says they'd be unhappy with him being resigned is a bit crazy if you ask me. Id also like to see Heath locked up too.


If we keep Harrison then there are a lot of our own free agents that we just won't be able to sign. Remember, we still have the draft, we can use a 1st or 2nd round pick on a pass rusher.

Now, also remember the Colon thing, we'd have to cut Harrison by May 1st to get under the cap but after June 1st if they cut Colon they'd have $5.5m to sign Harrison (if he's still available) or some other free agent.

I don't think we'll cut CB Ike Taylor either but keeping him pretty much means we can't keep WR Wallace. Also, if we did lose CB Taylor we can use a 1st or 2nd round pick on a CB or maybe use the $5.5m from the Colon thing to sign a free agent CB.

Also, Lewis has more passes defensed than Taylor so if he's behind him in talent it's not much.

Keisel is a cap cut, not a performance cut. We're in a hole and some tough decisions have to be made to get us above ground just for the 2013 season.

RB Mendenhall might be gone and Dwyer might become our starting RB mostly for cap reasons. I hope we keep Mendenhall, just because I think we need two very good RB's but it depends on the Wallace deal or not.

I think OG Foster deserves a bit more appreciation than he gets from Steeler fans. He's not great but for an UDFA he's pretty good.

We can sign Wallace, whether he takes the $8.4m deal or fights for an gets $10m a year, we can do it, it mostly depends on him but it will take some tough choices from us as well.
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2054
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kysteeler wrote:
Here is a good look at what would need to be done.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/08/an-early-look-at-the-steelers-2013-salary-cap-situation/


His site says we're only $13m over the cap for 2013 though so that's why he's able to keep so many players.

I dunno, hope we're only $13m over though 'cause that would change a lot of things.
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kysteeler


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 847
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dook wrote:
kysteeler wrote:
Here is a good look at what would need to be done.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/08/an-early-look-at-the-steelers-2013-salary-cap-situation/


His site says we're only $13m over the cap for 2013 though so that's why he's able to keep so many players.

I dunno, hope we're only $13m over though 'cause that would change a lot of things.


He's usually pretty accurate with the information that is give to us. I know last year some of the projections on the cap number were a little off in the beginning. If it's 24 of 13 were still way over the cap. I would go with the lower number given the number of FA we have this year, but who knows..
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the higher number from the Steeler Fury website. I went with that because it seemed like the worst case scenario.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: Salary Cap Hell OR How we can get under and sign Wallace Reply with quote

Dook wrote:


I think you misunderstood the bottom list of players which includes Hampton, we WON'T be able to sign them. I just posted them so people can get an idea of which position players we'll need to look at in the draft.


ah, ok. gotcha, and in that case, agreed.
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JDLefebvre


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Youre delusional if you think Wallace is going to take the same contract as Brown. He'll test free agency and make an extra $20 million with another team.



I don't know why everyone can't get this huge fact through their heads!!

Wallace could drop every pass thrown to him the rest of the year and his past along with his young age will be more than enough to get him his huge payday..... elsewhere!!!!!
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