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swinton85
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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 Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: Spread Offense anyone??? |
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We are all aware that the NFL is a totally different animal than the NCAA, but one could only think; with the last two draft picks we went with star collegiate players out of the spread offense system.
Blaine Gabbert: Stats
933 Att. 563 Com. 61% Com %
9,822 Yds. 40 TDs. 18 Ints.
Justin Blackmon: Stats
252 Rec. 3,564 Yds. 40 TDs.
Awards: (2x) Biletnikoff Award and All-American
With guys like Marcedes Lewis, Cecil Shorts, and Kevin Ellliot to stretch the field, and using Mojo in the more versatile role; it seems more intelligent to utilize these weapons.
The point to be made is; with the future of the team coming up from this style of play...why don't we at least give it a try. The team couldn't possibly do any worse than now. Adjust to the players, not players adjust to the team.
Any thoughts...
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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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The spread offense doesn't work in the NFL. NFL defenses are far faster than college ones are, which means that the seams that the spread relies on exploiting just close in a hurry. We also lack the o-line that could hold up to allow us to spread the field and push the ball. And it tips the defense to run vs pass on nearly every play. Unless you have Tom Brady throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker, the spread will not be effective as anything more than a hiccup in the offense, and we already use it in that capacity.
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sadjag
Joined: 02 Mar 2012
Posts: 846
Location: jax
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| iPwn wrote: | | The spread offense doesn't work in the NFL. NFL defenses are far faster than college ones are, which means that the seams that the spread relies on exploiting just close in a hurry. We also lack the o-line that could hold up to allow us to spread the field and push the ball. And it tips the defense to run vs pass on nearly every play. Unless you have Tom Brady throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker, the spread will not be effective as anything more than a hiccup in the offense, and we already use it in that capacity. |
But but... TEBOW!
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Adrenaline_Flux
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 15124
Location: The Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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We should open up the offense more, but if we could run a version of the spread then we would. In general though, like iPwn said, it's just not much of a feasible idea - especially for the Jags.
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JaguarCrazy2832
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 73481
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| sadjag wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | The spread offense doesn't work in the NFL. NFL defenses are far faster than college ones are, which means that the seams that the spread relies on exploiting just close in a hurry. We also lack the o-line that could hold up to allow us to spread the field and push the ball. And it tips the defense to run vs pass on nearly every play. Unless you have Tom Brady throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker, the spread will not be effective as anything more than a hiccup in the offense, and we already use it in that capacity. |
But but... TEBOW! |
But that is a spread option you are talking about
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Mr. V
Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 2604
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| JaguarCrazy2832 wrote: | | sadjag wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | The spread offense doesn't work in the NFL. NFL defenses are far faster than college ones are, which means that the seams that the spread relies on exploiting just close in a hurry. We also lack the o-line that could hold up to allow us to spread the field and push the ball. And it tips the defense to run vs pass on nearly every play. Unless you have Tom Brady throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker, the spread will not be effective as anything more than a hiccup in the offense, and we already use it in that capacity. |
But but... TEBOW! |
But that is a spread option you are talking about |
And Tebow can't make the reads wherever he is, Florida, Denver, or New York.
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Jaguarfan
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Lets trade for Graham Harrell and run the run-n-shoot, after all, he was was good in that offense in college.
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dswinton
Joined: 08 Jan 2011
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Location: Jacksonville,Florida
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't mind running the spread if we land Geno, but I wouldn't mind Barkley either. |
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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| dswinton wrote: | | I wouldn't mind running the spread if we land Geno, but I wouldn't mind Barkley either. |
If you want an idea of what would happen to this team if we went to the spread as a base offense, turn on the Patriots/Giants Superbowl from '07. That was probably the most perfect spread NFL offense you could ever dream of creating, and they got destroyed by a defense that could get at the passer. Brady spent more time in the dirt than he did standing up, and the few times he did have a little time to throw, he couldn't get into any sort of rhythm. When you're out of a shotgun, the time that the QB has to watch the ball go into his hands is vital time missed that would otherwise be being used to read the defense.
A team with "decent spread pieces," if you could even call what we would have that would get lit up like that every time you faced an upper 1/3 defense. Sure, you might be able to drop a lot of points on bad defenses, but I don't see why that's what you would want to strive for when a quality pro offense can do the same thing to bad defenses and would be able to put points on good defenses too.
Then when you went to run the ball, because there's no way you can run out of a spread effectively, you'll see teams stacking the box because they know your threat of passing is very low. And of course any time you're in a passing formation, you'll see the defense in nickel and dime formations that will mitigate the success your passing offense would have on an every down basis. The spread (read: shotgun) works effectively in spot situations because you're trying to do specific things with it, rather than trying to do everything out of it.
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corry
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
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Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| iPwn wrote: | | dswinton wrote: | | I wouldn't mind running the spread if we land Geno, but I wouldn't mind Barkley either. |
If you want an idea of what would happen to this team if we went to the spread as a base offense, turn on the Patriots/Giants Superbowl from '07. That was probably the most perfect spread NFL offense you could ever dream of creating, and they got destroyed by a defense that could get at the passer. Brady spent more time in the dirt than he did standing up, and the few times he did have a little time to throw, he couldn't get into any sort of rhythm. When you're out of a shotgun, the time that the QB has to watch the ball go into his hands is vital time missed that would otherwise be being used to read the defense.
A team with "decent spread pieces," if you could even call what we would have that would get lit up like that every time you faced an upper 1/3 defense. Sure, you might be able to drop a lot of points on bad defenses, but I don't see why that's what you would want to strive for when a quality pro offense can do the same thing to bad defenses and would be able to put points on good defenses too.
Then when you went to run the ball, because there's no way you can run out of a spread effectively, you'll see teams stacking the box because they know your threat of passing is very low. And of course any time you're in a passing formation, you'll see the defense in nickel and dime formations that will mitigate the success your passing offense would have on an every down basis. The spread (read: shotgun) works effectively in spot situations because you're trying to do specific things with it, rather than trying to do everything out of it. |
Nice write up, but do you mean the 07 Pats team that set records for scoring? That may not be the team you want to bring up to counter an argument. |
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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| corry wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | dswinton wrote: | | I wouldn't mind running the spread if we land Geno, but I wouldn't mind Barkley either. |
If you want an idea of what would happen to this team if we went to the spread as a base offense, turn on the Patriots/Giants Superbowl from '07. That was probably the most perfect spread NFL offense you could ever dream of creating, and they got destroyed by a defense that could get at the passer. Brady spent more time in the dirt than he did standing up, and the few times he did have a little time to throw, he couldn't get into any sort of rhythm. When you're out of a shotgun, the time that the QB has to watch the ball go into his hands is vital time missed that would otherwise be being used to read the defense.
A team with "decent spread pieces," if you could even call what we would have that would get lit up like that every time you faced an upper 1/3 defense. Sure, you might be able to drop a lot of points on bad defenses, but I don't see why that's what you would want to strive for when a quality pro offense can do the same thing to bad defenses and would be able to put points on good defenses too.
Then when you went to run the ball, because there's no way you can run out of a spread effectively, you'll see teams stacking the box because they know your threat of passing is very low. And of course any time you're in a passing formation, you'll see the defense in nickel and dime formations that will mitigate the success your passing offense would have on an every down basis. The spread (read: shotgun) works effectively in spot situations because you're trying to do specific things with it, rather than trying to do everything out of it. |
Nice write up, but do you mean the 07 Pats team that set records for scoring? That may not be the team you want to bring up to counter an argument. |
Yeah, them. Using them was sorta my point. A team with a top 5 all time coach, top 3 all time QB, top 2 all time WR (the greatest down field WR of all time), the best slot receiver of all time, and multiple Pro Bowl linemen that set all time records and would be the offense you would assemble if you ever wanted to run a spread and could have any players ever in the history of the NFL, couldn't do anything against an elite pass rush. Our players would see outputs like that against any good defense because our talent and coaching isn't anywhere near the level of those players.
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| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | I AM TRYING TO BE PWNY! AND I AM NOT! AND THIS VEXES ME SORE!!! |
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swinton85
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| iPwn wrote: | | corry wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | dswinton wrote: | | I wouldn't mind running the spread if we land Geno, but I wouldn't mind Barkley either. |
If you want an idea of what would happen to this team if we went to the spread as a base offense, turn on the Patriots/Giants Superbowl from '07. That was probably the most perfect spread NFL offense you could ever dream of creating, and they got destroyed by a defense that could get at the passer. Brady spent more time in the dirt than he did standing up, and the few times he did have a little time to throw, he couldn't get into any sort of rhythm. When you're out of a shotgun, the time that the QB has to watch the ball go into his hands is vital time missed that would otherwise be being used to read the defense.
A team with "decent spread pieces," if you could even call what we would have that would get lit up like that every time you faced an upper 1/3 defense. Sure, you might be able to drop a lot of points on bad defenses, but I don't see why that's what you would want to strive for when a quality pro offense can do the same thing to bad defenses and would be able to put points on good defenses too.
Then when you went to run the ball, because there's no way you can run out of a spread effectively, you'll see teams stacking the box because they know your threat of passing is very low. And of course any time you're in a passing formation, you'll see the defense in nickel and dime formations that will mitigate the success your passing offense would have on an every down basis. The spread (read: shotgun) works effectively in spot situations because you're trying to do specific things with it, rather than trying to do everything out of it. |
Nice write up, but do you mean the 07 Pats team that set records for scoring? That may not be the team you want to bring up to counter an argument. |
Yeah, them. Using them was sorta my point. A team with a top 5 all time coach, top 3 all time QB, top 2 all time WR (the greatest down field WR of all time), the best slot receiver of all time, and multiple Pro Bowl linemen that set all time records and would be the offense you would assemble if you ever wanted to run a spread and could have any players ever in the history of the NFL, couldn't do anything against an elite pass rush. Our players would see outputs like that against any good defense because our talent and coaching isn't anywhere near the level of those players. |
This post was to suggest a better change for the team. As I initially stated, we all know that it won't work in the NFL. I'm trying to get a game plan put together to help our two youngest stars become more acquainted with the league to have better success. Once this happens, then we can run whatever our little hearts desire.
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Adrenaline_Flux
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
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Location: The Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| swinton85 wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | corry wrote: | | iPwn wrote: | | dswinton wrote: | | I wouldn't mind running the spread if we land Geno, but I wouldn't mind Barkley either. |
If you want an idea of what would happen to this team if we went to the spread as a base offense, turn on the Patriots/Giants Superbowl from '07. That was probably the most perfect spread NFL offense you could ever dream of creating, and they got destroyed by a defense that could get at the passer. Brady spent more time in the dirt than he did standing up, and the few times he did have a little time to throw, he couldn't get into any sort of rhythm. When you're out of a shotgun, the time that the QB has to watch the ball go into his hands is vital time missed that would otherwise be being used to read the defense.
A team with "decent spread pieces," if you could even call what we would have that would get lit up like that every time you faced an upper 1/3 defense. Sure, you might be able to drop a lot of points on bad defenses, but I don't see why that's what you would want to strive for when a quality pro offense can do the same thing to bad defenses and would be able to put points on good defenses too.
Then when you went to run the ball, because there's no way you can run out of a spread effectively, you'll see teams stacking the box because they know your threat of passing is very low. And of course any time you're in a passing formation, you'll see the defense in nickel and dime formations that will mitigate the success your passing offense would have on an every down basis. The spread (read: shotgun) works effectively in spot situations because you're trying to do specific things with it, rather than trying to do everything out of it. |
Nice write up, but do you mean the 07 Pats team that set records for scoring? That may not be the team you want to bring up to counter an argument. |
Yeah, them. Using them was sorta my point. A team with a top 5 all time coach, top 3 all time QB, top 2 all time WR (the greatest down field WR of all time), the best slot receiver of all time, and multiple Pro Bowl linemen that set all time records and would be the offense you would assemble if you ever wanted to run a spread and could have any players ever in the history of the NFL, couldn't do anything against an elite pass rush. Our players would see outputs like that against any good defense because our talent and coaching isn't anywhere near the level of those players. |
This post was to suggest a better change for the team. As I initially stated, we all know that it won't work in the NFL. I'm trying to get a game plan put together to help our two youngest stars become more acquainted with the league to have better success. Once this happens, then we can run whatever our little hearts desire. |
If it doesn't work in the NFL then why would it be a better change for the team?
How would running a system like that in the NFL get them acquainted with the league?
Why would that help us run whatever our hearts desire?
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iPwn
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, running a difference offense isn't going to help them grasp a pro style offense any quicker. It'll actually impede that growth. You learn by repetition and practice, not by trying something else that isn't a long term solution.
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| samgurl775 wrote: | | It's alright iPwn, you're my #1. |
| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | I AM TRYING TO BE PWNY! AND I AM NOT! AND THIS VEXES ME SORE!!! |
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swinton85
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| iPwn wrote: | | Yeah, running a difference offense isn't going to help them grasp a pro style offense any quicker. It'll actually impede that growth. You learn by repetition and practice, not by trying something else that isn't a long term solution. |
Without confidence we have nothing, and our main player doesn't have confidence yet. A temporary transition to the spread will help him to gain some of this "unseen" confidence. What we have going now, the pro style, has the team looking like novices. It wont hurt to see what the results would be, but staying the same and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
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