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| The Fate of Whiz |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52978
Location: Havre, Montana
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 Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | younggun1273 wrote: | | Call me optimistic but maybe we should take a page out of Houston's playbook and ride with our coach. |
I agree with this 100%. This team under Ken Whisenhunt has regularly over-achieved for our talent levels. Why can a coach like that? |
2 reasons:
1. Whiz has refused to make the necessary changes to the team offensive philosophy (Or lackthereof).
2. Whiz doesn't seem willing to concede much of the power he has within the organization (I personally can't blame him for that but it is a problem). |
You really see Whiz as being too controlling over his time as a head coach though? He did hire Todd Haley right out of the gate - and more recently Ray Horton - both definitely not yes men.
Also - on personnel - I'd be curious to see exactly how the Adam Snyder signing went down. Was it mostly a certain scout pushing for him? Was player opinion also taken into account? |
Bolded: But didn't let him call the plays until year 2. Kinda furthers my point.
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SuperFlyTNT
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 422
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | younggun1273 wrote: | | Call me optimistic but maybe we should take a page out of Houston's playbook and ride with our coach. |
I agree with this 100%. This team under Ken Whisenhunt has regularly over-achieved for our talent levels. Why can a coach like that? |
2 reasons:
1. Whiz has refused to make the necessary changes to the team offensive philosophy (Or lackthereof).
2. Whiz doesn't seem willing to concede much of the power he has within the organization (I personally can't blame him for that but it is a problem). |
You really see Whiz as being too controlling over his time as a head coach though? He did hire Todd Haley right out of the gate - and more recently Ray Horton - both definitely not yes men.
Also - on personnel - I'd be curious to see exactly how the Adam Snyder signing went down. Was it mostly a certain scout pushing for him? Was player opinion also taken into account? |
Bolded: But didn't let him call the plays until year 2. Kinda furthers my point. |
Yeah - but it could have been worse than that - he could have just hired a bunch of yes men and kept play-calling duties completely to himself the whole time. If he was that power hungry and unwilling to change I'd be advocating for his firing too.
To me it looks like he needs his staff to earn his trust - same thing with his players, especially rookies. He could stand to trust people faster / more - but sometimes that doesn't work out well either. |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52978
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | younggun1273 wrote: | | Call me optimistic but maybe we should take a page out of Houston's playbook and ride with our coach. |
I agree with this 100%. This team under Ken Whisenhunt has regularly over-achieved for our talent levels. Why can a coach like that? |
2 reasons:
1. Whiz has refused to make the necessary changes to the team offensive philosophy (Or lackthereof).
2. Whiz doesn't seem willing to concede much of the power he has within the organization (I personally can't blame him for that but it is a problem). |
You really see Whiz as being too controlling over his time as a head coach though? He did hire Todd Haley right out of the gate - and more recently Ray Horton - both definitely not yes men.
Also - on personnel - I'd be curious to see exactly how the Adam Snyder signing went down. Was it mostly a certain scout pushing for him? Was player opinion also taken into account? |
Bolded: But didn't let him call the plays until year 2. Kinda furthers my point. |
Yeah - but it could have been worse than that - he could have just hired a bunch of yes men and kept play-calling duties completely to himself the whole time. If he was that power hungry and unwilling to change I'd be advocating for his firing too.
To me it looks like he needs his staff to earn his trust - same thing with his players, especially rookies. He could stand to trust people faster / more - but sometimes that doesn't work out well either. |
It doesn't matter if you "yes men" or "no men" if you don't take their opinions into account. Case in point, Russ Grimm. He wants out of this organization for the sole reason that Whiz doesn't take his thoughts into account. Mike Miller. Ya he calls plays but they're Whiz's plays. Personnel decisions, Ken Whisenhunt.
Fact is, Ken Whisenhunt is power hungry.
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SuperFlyTNT
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 422
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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You're pretty sure of that - Russ wanting out? Is the evidence for that because Russ asked for Jah Reid but we took Rob Housler instead? Is this all based on info from your inside source?
I'm asking because I can't tell the inner workings of the staff to that detail as just a regular fan - for all I know since Whiz is at the top he has to mitigate between different requests from his staff. I can't tell if it was him that said I want Rob Housler and you can go another year without getting a guard Russ - or if he was taking into account advice from different people on the staff including Russ and the scouts and had to make a decision.
If you have some solid evidence that Russ thinks Whiz is doing a lousy job and wants out then of course I'd like to see it. |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52978
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperFlyTNT wrote: | You're pretty sure of that - Russ wanting out? Is the evidence for that because Russ asked for Jah Reid but we took Rob Housler instead? Is this all based on info from your inside source?
I'm asking because I can't tell the inner workings of the staff to that detail as just a regular fan - for all I know since Whiz is at the top he has to mitigate between different requests from his staff. I can't tell if it was him that said I want Rob Housler and you can go another year without getting a guard Russ - or if he was taking into account advice from different people on the staff including Russ and the scouts and had to make a decision.
If you have some solid evidence that Russ thinks Whiz is doing a lousy job and wants out then of course I'd like to see it. |
Bolded: Yes but it went deeper than Jah Reid-Rob Housler. From what I was told, when Whiz made Russ and Miller co-offensive coordinators, it was with the promise that Russ would have a say in the offensive gameplanning and offensive personnel and apparently, that hasn't happened.
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SuperFlyTNT
Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 422
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | SuperFlyTNT wrote: | You're pretty sure of that - Russ wanting out? Is the evidence for that because Russ asked for Jah Reid but we took Rob Housler instead? Is this all based on info from your inside source?
I'm asking because I can't tell the inner workings of the staff to that detail as just a regular fan - for all I know since Whiz is at the top he has to mitigate between different requests from his staff. I can't tell if it was him that said I want Rob Housler and you can go another year without getting a guard Russ - or if he was taking into account advice from different people on the staff including Russ and the scouts and had to make a decision.
If you have some solid evidence that Russ thinks Whiz is doing a lousy job and wants out then of course I'd like to see it. |
Bolded: Yes but it went deeper than Jah Reid-Rob Housler. From what I was told, when Whiz made Russ and Miller co-offensive coordinators, it was with the promise that Russ would have a say in the offensive gameplanning and offensive personnel and apparently, that hasn't happened. |
Yeah - that is pretty bad then. That was my biggest objection to any of Whiz' decisions - I wish he would have just picked one successor to Todd Haley as OC after he left. The committee approach requires being very diplomatic and often doesn't work well. |
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HighMotorGuy
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 566
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Surely, Whisenhunt cannot keep his job if we lose against the Rams. Even if he does keep his job, we will most likelyl see the same abomination happen next year. We will draft a WR/RB in the first round AGAIN! and continue bringing in the worst players in the league on value contracts |
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AZCardinalsFan
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 1161
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't want to say it. But now since we have lost 7 in a row. I think this is it for Whiz. I love him and will always have him in my heart, for what did. But this team isnt going anywhere with him anymore.
But I do think if we have gotten a QB on the level as the elite team. We would still be a special teama. But since you cant go out and pick those off of tree's..
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 50171
Location: New New York
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52978
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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People will ask for Whiz to be fired for a hundred different reasons it's proably the Kolb trade that does him in.
And as I said 3 weeks ago, I think it's time. We need a new direction (Or in our case, a direction at all).
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JohnnyV
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2205
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Rod Graves should be included here.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52978
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say.
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Boise&cards Fan
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 3078
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Time to go and get a guy that can bring Arizona a identity. |
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JohnnyV
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2205
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Boise&cards Fan wrote: | | Time to go and get a guy that can bring Arizona a identity. |
And someone who can bring in a QB and make him successful in some kind of system with some consistency IE Seattle and Russel Wilson
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 50171
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Boise&cards Fan wrote: | | Time to go and get a guy that can bring Arizona a identity. |
I think we have an identity. We want to throw the ball 40 times a game and run off of the success that bring us. We want to attack vertically and keep the safeties deep and then run against 6 and 7 man fronts for good yards.
The issue with that is when we cannot throw the ball successfully our entire gameplan goes out the window, and considering we have not had an above average QB since 2009 that is a lot.
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