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Ken Whisenhunt: Stay Or Go?
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The Fate of Whiz
Stay
60%
 60%  [ 18 ]
Go
40%
 40%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 30

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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
khodder wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
The play calling is bad, the decision making is bad. They need a coach who the players will get behind, a coach that will take control of the locker room.


There are two instances today when we had some issues with playcalling. Passing rather than Running late in the first half and then running on 3rd down and passing on fourth down. Personally I would have passed on the 3rd down and then kept the Falcons on their toes for the fourth down.

In the second instance it was still an exectution issue (Larry needs to haul that pass in).

Tell me where is this huge issue with the playcalling today? The playcalling today was capable of putting 30+ points on the board, the execution failed miserably.

We have a coach the players can get behind, his name is Ken Whisenhunt. You think the players were not behind him as this team made a playoff run ending in a Superbowl lead with 2 minutes to go? You don't think the team was behind him when they turned 1-6 into 8-8 last season?

Players need to execute. Players are the issue here, not the coaching staff.


I still think that Dockett tweet about Gruden was a hint that Whiz lost control


You must have missed it when I said it 2 weeks ago. Darnell Dockett is arguably Whiz's greatest in-locker room supporter. The two are very close. Gruden tweet has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
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younggun1273


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been teetering on whether I think Whis should go but now I think he really should stay. I would love to see this team compete with a QB executing at an average level instead of league worst but that simply isn't going to happen with Skelton and who knows with Lindley. Kolb has looked alright when healthy and is obviously the best chance at winning.

Call me optimistic but maybe we should take a page out of Houston's playbook and ride with our coach.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

younggun1273 wrote:
Call me optimistic but maybe we should take a page out of Houston's playbook and ride with our coach.


I agree with this 100%. This team under Ken Whisenhunt has regularly over-achieved for our talent levels. Why can a coach like that?
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stchamp98


Most Valuable Poster (3rd Ballot)

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Location: Havre, Montana
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
Call me optimistic but maybe we should take a page out of Houston's playbook and ride with our coach.


I agree with this 100%. This team under Ken Whisenhunt has regularly over-achieved for our talent levels. Why can a coach like that?


2 reasons:

1. Whiz has refused to make the necessary changes to the team offensive philosophy (Or lackthereof).
2. Whiz doesn't seem willing to concede much of the power he has within the organization (I personally can't blame him for that but it is a problem).
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of firing Whiz, they can try and hire Norv Turner (if he is fired) as the OC.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
Instead of firing Whiz, they can try and hire Norv Turner (if he is fired) as the OC.


Still the same regime that could ignore the OL again...
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
Instead of firing Whiz, they can try and hire Norv Turner (if he is fired) as the OC.


Still the same regime that could ignore the OL again...


Maybe I'm off base here I really don't see it happening. 1-We're pretty good at a number of spots, believe it not, both talent and money wise. We've got to pick someone in rounds 1-2 and it won't be a pass catcher. Process of elimination suggests OL will be high on the food chain. 2-The backlash from fans/media if we don't go OL (Or give the majority of our picks for Geno Smith) would be intolerable. Whiz is already starting to buckle on a few issues due to the pressure. There's no way he could handle the weight of ignoring the OL again, IMHO.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
Instead of firing Whiz, they can try and hire Norv Turner (if he is fired) as the OC.


Still the same regime that could ignore the OL again...


Maybe I'm off base here I really don't see it happening. 1-We're pretty good at a number of spots, believe it not, both talent and money wise. We've got to pick someone in rounds 1-2 and it won't be a pass catcher. Process of elimination suggests OL will be high on the food chain. 2-The backlash from fans/media if we don't go OL (Or give the majority of our picks for Geno Smith) would be intolerable. Whiz is already starting to buckle on a few issues due to the pressure. There's no way he could handle the weight of ignoring the OL again, IMHO.


I can still see him thinking like this - "Massie has done enough to earn the starting spot, Levi will be back at LT and Snyder was playing with a bad arm arm"...

Ugh
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khodder


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
I can still see him thinking like this - "Massie has done enough to earn the starting spot, Levi will be back at LT and Snyder was playing with a bad arm arm"...

Ugh


All True, and I would not be surprised at all if that was the case. But I still don't think we go through the top 64 picks of this draft without an offensive lineman being picked.

There is alsot he fact that we can just wave goodbye to Levi at no cost. Keep him around until the draft, see Joeckel available, take him, wave goodbye to Levi.
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stchamp98


Most Valuable Poster (3rd Ballot)

Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52980
Location: Havre, Montana
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
Instead of firing Whiz, they can try and hire Norv Turner (if he is fired) as the OC.


Still the same regime that could ignore the OL again...


Maybe I'm off base here I really don't see it happening. 1-We're pretty good at a number of spots, believe it not, both talent and money wise. We've got to pick someone in rounds 1-2 and it won't be a pass catcher. Process of elimination suggests OL will be high on the food chain. 2-The backlash from fans/media if we don't go OL (Or give the majority of our picks for Geno Smith) would be intolerable. Whiz is already starting to buckle on a few issues due to the pressure. There's no way he could handle the weight of ignoring the OL again, IMHO.


I can still see him thinking like this - "Massie has done enough to earn the starting spot, Levi will be back at LT and Snyder was playing with a bad arm arm"...

Ugh


For Massie and Levi, I may actually agree. As for the rest, again, I don't think Whiz can handle the backlash that will come from that line of thinking. And again once more, where else are we gonna go? Unless we do swing something for Geno Smith (Which would solve the bigger problem), who are we gonna take? Outside of a guy like Jarvis Jones (Projected to the top 3) and maybe a Damontre Moore (Whom I love), all of the players rated to go in the 5-12 area are OL or 4-3 DTs. He's got to do something....
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
I can still see him thinking like this - "Massie has done enough to earn the starting spot, Levi will be back at LT and Snyder was playing with a bad arm arm"...

Ugh


All True, and I would not be surprised at all if that was the case. But I still don't think we go through the top 64 picks of this draft without an offensive lineman being picked.

There is alsot he fact that we can just wave goodbye to Levi at no cost. Keep him around until the draft, see Joeckel available, take him, wave goodbye to Levi.


If we got Joeckel I'd keep Levi to play RT. He would also backup LT if a rookie gets hurt or Whiz takes it slow with him. Levi is our best run blocker after all.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
Instead of firing Whiz, they can try and hire Norv Turner (if he is fired) as the OC.


Still the same regime that could ignore the OL again...


Maybe I'm off base here I really don't see it happening. 1-We're pretty good at a number of spots, believe it not, both talent and money wise. We've got to pick someone in rounds 1-2 and it won't be a pass catcher. Process of elimination suggests OL will be high on the food chain. 2-The backlash from fans/media if we don't go OL (Or give the majority of our picks for Geno Smith) would be intolerable. Whiz is already starting to buckle on a few issues due to the pressure. There's no way he could handle the weight of ignoring the OL again, IMHO.


I can still see him thinking like this - "Massie has done enough to earn the starting spot, Levi will be back at LT and Snyder was playing with a bad arm arm"...

Ugh


For Massie and Levi, I may actually agree. As for the rest, again, I don't think Whiz can handle the backlash that will come from that line of thinking. And again once more, where else are we gonna go? Unless we do swing something for Geno Smith (Which would solve the bigger problem), who are we gonna take? Outside of a guy like Jarvis Jones (Projected to the top 3) and maybe a Damontre Moore (Whom I love), all of the players rated to go in the 5-12 area are OL or 4-3 DTs. He's got to do something....


Depends where we're picking. Say around 9-10, both Joeckel & Lewan are gone and we think it's too early for a Guard. There are scenarios where we don't go OL with our 1st pick.
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younggun1273


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why can't Levi play right guard? It may be an entirely new position but he is good in the run game, he won't be exposed by speed rushers and it fulfills a need without bringing in someone. He is also the ideal size for the position at 6'6" 325.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
Instead of firing Whiz, they can try and hire Norv Turner (if he is fired) as the OC.


Still the same regime that could ignore the OL again...


Maybe I'm off base here I really don't see it happening. 1-We're pretty good at a number of spots, believe it not, both talent and money wise. We've got to pick someone in rounds 1-2 and it won't be a pass catcher. Process of elimination suggests OL will be high on the food chain. 2-The backlash from fans/media if we don't go OL (Or give the majority of our picks for Geno Smith) would be intolerable. Whiz is already starting to buckle on a few issues due to the pressure. There's no way he could handle the weight of ignoring the OL again, IMHO.


I can still see him thinking like this - "Massie has done enough to earn the starting spot, Levi will be back at LT and Snyder was playing with a bad arm arm"...

Ugh


For Massie and Levi, I may actually agree. As for the rest, again, I don't think Whiz can handle the backlash that will come from that line of thinking. And again once more, where else are we gonna go? Unless we do swing something for Geno Smith (Which would solve the bigger problem), who are we gonna take? Outside of a guy like Jarvis Jones (Projected to the top 3) and maybe a Damontre Moore (Whom I love), all of the players rated to go in the 5-12 area are OL or 4-3 DTs. He's got to do something....


Depends where we're picking. Say around 9-10, both Joeckel & Lewan are gone and we think it's too early for a Guard. There are scenarios where we don't go OL with our 1st pick.


Still leaves Jake Matthews but I'll go with it. Who do we take there? We're not taking a pass catcher, we're not taking a defensive lineman, we're probably not going to the secondary. We're not gonna take a running back but just because I know the jokes will come up, I point out that there isn't a back in Rob Rang's top 40 rankings. Jarvis Jones will be gone, Mingo's stock is the gutter. Teo may or not may be there. It's Damontre Moore (Again, I love the guy) or an offensive lineman. Realistically, those are our choices.
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SuperFlyTNT


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
khodder wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
Call me optimistic but maybe we should take a page out of Houston's playbook and ride with our coach.


I agree with this 100%. This team under Ken Whisenhunt has regularly over-achieved for our talent levels. Why can a coach like that?


2 reasons:

1. Whiz has refused to make the necessary changes to the team offensive philosophy (Or lackthereof).
2. Whiz doesn't seem willing to concede much of the power he has within the organization (I personally can't blame him for that but it is a problem).


You really see Whiz as being too controlling over his time as a head coach though? He did hire Todd Haley right out of the gate - and more recently Ray Horton - both definitely not yes men.

Also - on personnel - I'd be curious to see exactly how the Adam Snyder signing went down. Was it mostly a certain scout pushing for him? Was player opinion also taken into account?
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