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Ken Whisenhunt: Stay Or Go?
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The Fate of Whiz
Stay
60%
 60%  [ 18 ]
Go
40%
 40%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 30

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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oliverisking wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Can't see Whiz lasting here more than another year. No QB and no OL? That's hard to fix in a single year and yet he had many years before to do something about it. The Kolb trade didn't work out. He kept ignoring the OL. He drafted RBs and WRs instead. He built this offense from the outside-in. That's not how you built a good offense. You need to build from the inside-out. His offensive prowess is absolutely terrible. He's making Kolb/Skelton run a Warner-like offense and we've yet to see Steeler football since he took over.



Agreed 9 carries for 7 yrds, Skelton threw 55 times our staff acts like we still have kurt


9 carries for 7 yards? Ya, I'd be throwing it too. What else are we gonna do, really?
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khodder


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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
oliverisking wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Can't see Whiz lasting here more than another year. No QB and no OL? That's hard to fix in a single year and yet he had many years before to do something about it. The Kolb trade didn't work out. He kept ignoring the OL. He drafted RBs and WRs instead. He built this offense from the outside-in. That's not how you built a good offense. You need to build from the inside-out. His offensive prowess is absolutely terrible. He's making Kolb/Skelton run a Warner-like offense and we've yet to see Steeler football since he took over.



Agreed 9 carries for 7 yrds, Skelton threw 55 times our staff acts like we still have kurt


9 carries for 7 yards? Ya, I'd be throwing it too. What else are we gonna do, really?


18 carries for 14 yards. When you are run blocking as poorly as we were yesterday you throw the football.
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stchamp98


Most Valuable Poster (3rd Ballot)

Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 52979
Location: Havre, Montana
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
oliverisking wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Can't see Whiz lasting here more than another year. No QB and no OL? That's hard to fix in a single year and yet he had many years before to do something about it. The Kolb trade didn't work out. He kept ignoring the OL. He drafted RBs and WRs instead. He built this offense from the outside-in. That's not how you built a good offense. You need to build from the inside-out. His offensive prowess is absolutely terrible. He's making Kolb/Skelton run a Warner-like offense and we've yet to see Steeler football since he took over.



Agreed 9 carries for 7 yrds, Skelton threw 55 times our staff acts like we still have kurt


9 carries for 7 yards? Ya, I'd be throwing it too. What else are we gonna do, really?


18 carries for 14 yards. When you are run blocking as poorly as we were yesterday you throw the football.


Pretty much. You can only get hit for TFL so many times before you just say to hell it, I'm gonna throw every play.

On this, I will side with Whiz/Miller. Typical "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
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oliverisking


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
oliverisking wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
Can't see Whiz lasting here more than another year. No QB and no OL? That's hard to fix in a single year and yet he had many years before to do something about it. The Kolb trade didn't work out. He kept ignoring the OL. He drafted RBs and WRs instead. He built this offense from the outside-in. That's not how you built a good offense. You need to build from the inside-out. His offensive prowess is absolutely terrible. He's making Kolb/Skelton run a Warner-like offense and we've yet to see Steeler football since he took over.



Agreed 9 carries for 7 yrds, Skelton threw 55 times our staff acts like we still have kurt


9 carries for 7 yards? Ya, I'd be throwing it too. What else are we gonna do, really?


18 carries for 14 yards. When you are run blocking as poorly as we were yesterday you throw the football.


http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=321029022 counting 9 champ
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oliverisking


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not champ khodder, my bad
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Cusi10


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fire whiz if reid is fired.

hire reid and let him and kolb do work.

done.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LSH runs yesterday;

0, 1, -5, 5, -2, -3, 11, 0.

On 6 of 8 runs we gained 1 or less.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a question to go with this one...

If Ken stays, does the front office give him enough of a leash to draft a first round QB?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyV wrote:
Here's a question to go with this one...

If Ken stays, does the front office give him enough of a leash to draft a first round QB?


Have to. Otherwise, why would he even stay? If I were Whiz and they handcuffed me like that, I'd just quit.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyV wrote:
Here's a question to go with this one...

If Ken stays, does the front office give him enough of a leash to draft a first round QB?


Not sure, but I do know this. Drafting a first round QB and then firing the head coach after that players rookie season is one of the worst things you can do in the NFL.
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younggun1273


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
The way this team looks, they look destined to finish below 8-8 but if we can't win more than two games, he really should be fired. That would mean this team ended up going 2-10, 1-11, or 0-12 to end the year.

Whiz has to own up to not developing any QBs and Grimm has to own up to not fielding a competent offensive line in his tenure here. How long has this team struggled to create lanes in the run game and protect the QB? We can blame it on not drafting players for him, but this is a business that does not care for excuses. Grimm and Whiz have not delivered so it may be time to go.


Grimm should receive ZERO excuses with his salary.


This doesn't have anything to do with anything.


Oh please.

Grimm is in his 6th year in the desert. The offensive line is still the largest weakness on the team, for the 6th straight year. No one has developed well under Grimm in 6 years. I know the Bidwills love him and you are intent on making excuses for him but he hasn't coached up the guys the has or put them in a position to do well.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

younggun1273 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
The way this team looks, they look destined to finish below 8-8 but if we can't win more than two games, he really should be fired. That would mean this team ended up going 2-10, 1-11, or 0-12 to end the year.

Whiz has to own up to not developing any QBs and Grimm has to own up to not fielding a competent offensive line in his tenure here. How long has this team struggled to create lanes in the run game and protect the QB? We can blame it on not drafting players for him, but this is a business that does not care for excuses. Grimm and Whiz have not delivered so it may be time to go.


Grimm should receive ZERO excuses with his salary.


This doesn't have anything to do with anything.


Oh please.

Grimm is in his 6th year in the desert. The offensive line is still the largest weakness on the team, for the 6th straight year. No one has developed well under Grimm in 6 years. I know the Bidwills love him and you are intent on making excuses for him but he hasn't coached up the guys the has or put them in a position to do well.


1 offensive lineman in 6 years taken before round 4. As JohnnyV was kind enough to share, our current starting LT was cut from a team in the CFL.

That's all I need to refute this.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
The way this team looks, they look destined to finish below 8-8 but if we can't win more than two games, he really should be fired. That would mean this team ended up going 2-10, 1-11, or 0-12 to end the year.

Whiz has to own up to not developing any QBs and Grimm has to own up to not fielding a competent offensive line in his tenure here. How long has this team struggled to create lanes in the run game and protect the QB? We can blame it on not drafting players for him, but this is a business that does not care for excuses. Grimm and Whiz have not delivered so it may be time to go.


Grimm should receive ZERO excuses with his salary.


This doesn't have anything to do with anything.


Oh please.

Grimm is in his 6th year in the desert. The offensive line is still the largest weakness on the team, for the 6th straight year. No one has developed well under Grimm in 6 years. I know the Bidwills love him and you are intent on making excuses for him but he hasn't coached up the guys the has or put them in a position to do well.


1 offensive lineman in 6 years taken before round 4. As JohnnyV was kind enough to share, our current starting LT was cut from a team in the CFL.

That's all I need to refute this.


Sad but true. You can make the point Champ that Lyle has regressed under Grimm. We gave Lyle an extension expecting him to improve. He hasn't. Levi never really improved either.

Grimm deserves heat and may be a sacrificial lamb, but we just don't have the talent. That's it.

But on top your post Champ about resources, you're dead on. I've heard too many people say this offense is behind because we haven't invested the picks like the defense.

HELLO? Ryan Williams, Kevin Kolb, Rob Housler, Michael Floyd, Andre Roberts, Beanie Wells...all cost us a 3rd round pick or higher.

Just because we have ignored the oline, doesn't mean we've ignored the offense. They just haven't developed yet or have faded out.

Now our offensive free agents, there's a major disaster.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Lyle has regressed but to regress he had to have once played well and for Lyle, an undrafted free agent, to have played well, Grimm had to been a part of that. Course, nobody wants to see that.

Younggun said I always stick up for him but the reality is I said 2-3 weeks ago that if we fired him I wouldn't care. I truly wouldn't care if we did. All I'm saying is, ousting Grimm doesn't get to the root of our problem. It cuts the ugly brown leaf off the top but it doesn't fix the root. The root of our problem is talent or in our case, the EXTREME lack thereof. That's on Whiz and Graves and Keim. That's got little to do with Grimm, especially after I know for fact how badly he wanted a tackle in 2011 when we went with Rob Housler instead (Definitely the right choice in hindsight but the point remains).
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younggun1273


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
younggun1273 wrote:
The way this team looks, they look destined to finish below 8-8 but if we can't win more than two games, he really should be fired. That would mean this team ended up going 2-10, 1-11, or 0-12 to end the year.

Whiz has to own up to not developing any QBs and Grimm has to own up to not fielding a competent offensive line in his tenure here. How long has this team struggled to create lanes in the run game and protect the QB? We can blame it on not drafting players for him, but this is a business that does not care for excuses. Grimm and Whiz have not delivered so it may be time to go.


Grimm should receive ZERO excuses with his salary.


This doesn't have anything to do with anything.


Oh please.

Grimm is in his 6th year in the desert. The offensive line is still the largest weakness on the team, for the 6th straight year. No one has developed well under Grimm in 6 years. I know the Bidwills love him and you are intent on making excuses for him but he hasn't coached up the guys the has or put them in a position to do well.


1 offensive lineman in 6 years taken before round 4. As JohnnyV was kind enough to share, our current starting LT was cut from a team in the CFL.

That's all I need to refute this.


He was cut from the CFL in 2004. This team signed him 2010. They have had him around for 3 seasons to evaluate him so they must have seen something they liked if he has been around this long.

Mike Gandy, Al Johnson, Alan Faneca and Adam Snyder all have played worse for Grimm than before they got here and he hasn't coached up the guys he had, whether he wanted them or not. Even with Deuce Lutui as a holdover, he couldn't get him to play better. Sendlein is regressing. This team has never been able to run the ball, despite that being the identity this team has been trying to establish since 2007.

Just saying I have yet to see improvement or growth from the unit that is consistently the weakest part of the team. I've been patient for 6 years, but the results have yet to come.
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