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TheOsprey
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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Location: In a van, down by the river.
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 Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SaveourSonics wrote: | | TheOsprey wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | TheOsprey wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | TheOsprey wrote: | | As a talent, I agree that Smith is better than Barkley, but Barkley is more pro ready and comes from a pro style offense. I believe he has more long term success, versus the immediate success you'd have in Smith. To me, Barkley vs. Smith is a lot like Luck vs. RG3 was last year, only on a much lesser scale. |
No one is gonna comment on how ridiculous this sounds? 
Barkley is more pro ready, yet you expect Geno to have more immediate success? Geno has more raw talent, but he won't be better in the longterm?
Neither of those statements make any semblance of sense. |
It's the same as Luck versus RG3. RG3 has more athleticism and therefore is having more immediate success over Luck. Luck on the other hand is more pro ready, but needs certain things around him to get to that level. I see him having more future success on the pro level once those needs are established. |
Both of those QBs were very pro-ready. Just because they don't play in an NFL scheme doesn't mean they aren't pro-ready. RG3 had all of the tools to immediately be good in this league just like Luck did. Makes no sense to say someone is more pro-ready but will struggle more early on. If you're more pro-ready, that literally means you are more ready for the pros from the get-go. |
You and I disagree about RG3. I compare him to Cam Newton, in that his skill set will only take him so far, before he hits a wall, ala Newton. In my opinion, Geno Smith has a better arm than both of those guys, so maybe his ceiling is a bit higher.
To the contrary. You can be as pro ready as you can possibly be, but if you go to a poor team with very little tools, you will struggle early on. Look at the situation Luck inherited. He was the most pro ready QB to enter the draft in many years and he is having growing pains. The Colts lack defense, O-Line, a running game and are very young at the receiver position. RG3 landed on a team with a good D-Line, solid LB's, several veteran WR's who have had success and a decent O-Line. Right now, he has a lot more around him, thus it is helping him have success early on. How do you not understand this? |
Not really sure what any of that last paragraph has to do with the subject at hand. You seem to be rambling on. What does inheriting a bad team have anything to do with Barkley or Geno? Being drafted in the top 5 means you're very, very likely to inherit a bad team. Neither Luck nor Griffin have been bad this season, so I'm not sure why you're trying to convince me that Griffin has everything in his favor.
There is virtually nothing about Griffin that wasn't pro-ready coming into the league. He had great footwork in the pocket, keeps his eyes downfield under pressure, delivers an accurate ball, and can hit any point on the field. Not only that, but he's a very intelligent kid. All of that can be said for Geno Smith as well. To say either Griffin or Geno aren't pro-ready is just ignorant. I'd love to hear how either player was not pro-ready from a direct talent translation. |
Because in my mock, I have Barkley going to Jacksonville. Lately, that is basically like going to a wastleland. I then have Smith going to Kansas City which at least has a running game and a decent defense. In this scenario, I could see Geno having some immediate success, especially if Dwayne Bowe is retained.
I know that neither Luck or RG3 is playing poorly, but if you look at what they have accomplished so far, RG3 is on a different plane right now. Much of that can be attributed to the weapons around him and his athleticism which allows him to gain yards with his feet. It's not a hard concept to follow. You're making this way harder to follow, than it should be.
As far as running, RG3 had great footwork, but when it came to throwing he threw the ball flat footed and would hop, instead of using his legs to follow through. I discussed this alot last year on the Seahawks board. I am glad to say, he doesn't do that now, thanks to the coaching he has received in the NFL. None of us truly knew if he would fix this flaw in the NFL though and if you say you did know, then you're just making things up.
With Geno, he has been a good, but not great QB, before getting involved in Dana Holgorsen's gimmicky offense. Once he did, his numbers shot through the roof. You may not consider this to be a concern, but I know plenty of people that would disagree. I'm not saying Geno can't be a good or even great NFL QB, but the system he comes from is a concern. Most of the NFL's top performing QB's come from pro style systems. Tom Brady and both Manning's are good examples of this. They presented less of a risk. That is what Barkley represents, even though I personally, have major concerns about the lack of velocity that Barkley puts on the ball. |
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Nobody
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 2011
Location: Final Four and counting!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheOsprey wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | TheOsprey wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | TheOsprey wrote: | | SaveourSonics wrote: | | TheOsprey wrote: | | As a talent, I agree that Smith is better than Barkley, but Barkley is more pro ready and comes from a pro style offense. I believe he has more long term success, versus the immediate success you'd have in Smith. To me, Barkley vs. Smith is a lot like Luck vs. RG3 was last year, only on a much lesser scale. |
No one is gonna comment on how ridiculous this sounds?
Barkley is more pro ready, yet you expect Geno to have more immediate success? Geno has more raw talent, but he won't be better in the longterm?
Neither of those statements make any semblance of sense. |
It's the same as Luck versus RG3. RG3 has more athleticism and therefore is having more immediate success over Luck. Luck on the other hand is more pro ready, but needs certain things around him to get to that level. I see him having more future success on the pro level once those needs are established. |
Both of those QBs were very pro-ready. Just because they don't play in an NFL scheme doesn't mean they aren't pro-ready. RG3 had all of the tools to immediately be good in this league just like Luck did. Makes no sense to say someone is more pro-ready but will struggle more early on. If you're more pro-ready, that literally means you are more ready for the pros from the get-go. |
You and I disagree about RG3. I compare him to Cam Newton, in that his skill set will only take him so far, before he hits a wall, ala Newton. In my opinion, Geno Smith has a better arm than both of those guys, so maybe his ceiling is a bit higher.
To the contrary. You can be as pro ready as you can possibly be, but if you go to a poor team with very little tools, you will struggle early on. Look at the situation Luck inherited. He was the most pro ready QB to enter the draft in many years and he is having growing pains. The Colts lack defense, O-Line, a running game and are very young at the receiver position. RG3 landed on a team with a good D-Line, solid LB's, several veteran WR's who have had success and a decent O-Line. Right now, he has a lot more around him, thus it is helping him have success early on. How do you not understand this? |
Not really sure what any of that last paragraph has to do with the subject at hand. You seem to be rambling on. What does inheriting a bad team have anything to do with Barkley or Geno? Being drafted in the top 5 means you're very, very likely to inherit a bad team. Neither Luck nor Griffin have been bad this season, so I'm not sure why you're trying to convince me that Griffin has everything in his favor.
There is virtually nothing about Griffin that wasn't pro-ready coming into the league. He had great footwork in the pocket, keeps his eyes downfield under pressure, delivers an accurate ball, and can hit any point on the field. Not only that, but he's a very intelligent kid. All of that can be said for Geno Smith as well. To say either Griffin or Geno aren't pro-ready is just ignorant. I'd love to hear how either player was not pro-ready from a direct talent translation. |
Because in my mock, I have Barkley going to Jacksonville. Lately, that is basically like going to a wastleland. I then have Smith going to Kansas City which at least has a running game and a decent defense. In this scenario, I could see Geno having some immediate success, especially if Dwayne Bowe is retained.
I know that neither Luck or RG3 is playing poorly, but if you look at what they have accomplished so far, RG3 is on a different plane right now. Much of that can be attributed to the weapons around him and his athleticism which allows him to gain yards with his feet. It's not a hard concept to follow. You're making this way harder to follow, than it should be.
As far as running, RG3 had great footwork, but when it came to throwing he threw the ball flat footed and would hop, instead of using his legs to follow through. I discussed this alot last year on the Seahawks board. I am glad to say, he doesn't do that now, thanks to the coaching he has received in the NFL. None of us truly knew if he would fix this flaw in the NFL though and if you say you did know, then you're just making things up.
With Geno, he has been a good, but not great QB, before getting involved in Dana Holgorsen's gimmicky offense. Once he did, his numbers shot through the roof. You may not consider this to be a concern, but I know plenty of people that would disagree. I'm not saying Geno can't be a good or even great NFL QB, but the system he comes from is a concern. Most of the NFL's top performing QB's come from pro style systems. Tom Brady and both Manning's are good examples of this. They presented less of a risk. That is what Barkley represents, even though I personally, have major concerns about the lack of velocity that Barkley puts on the ball. |
RG3 hasn't been much better, if at all. Look at the numbers, his entire game is screens, dumpoffs, and run plays. He rarely throws it downfield. Luck has also been better running the ball.
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Mastercheddaar
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 4918
Location: Northeast Ohio.. Obviously
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: hmmm |
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Good position picks for Cleveland. We need OG, DE, CB help.
That is all
Mastercheddaar
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boondock
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 21248
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:43 am Post subject: |
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I liked rounds 4-6 for the Panthers. Not too much of a fan of the first and second round.
Jarvis Jones is a 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Panthers run a 4-3, unless something changes this offseason. Hoever, with the current scheme it makes more sense for us to pick up Star Lotulelei in the first, then a FS, T, or WR in the 2nd. Maybe even Tyler Effiert since he's sitting there.
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TheOsprey
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 7921
Location: In a van, down by the river.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| boondock wrote: | I liked rounds 4-6 for the Panthers. Not too much of a fan of the first and second round.
Jarvis Jones is a 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Panthers run a 4-3, unless something changes this offseason. Hoever, with the current scheme it makes more sense for us to pick up Star Lotulelei in the first, then a FS, T, or WR in the 2nd. Maybe even Tyler Effiert since he's sitting there. |
Everyone thought Von Miller was strictly a 3-4 OLB as well, but now we realize that isn't true. Jones could be the same type of player Miller is as a 4-3 SLB. The Panthers need all types of help and a defensive playmaker like Jones could be a big help. With this in mind, there would be a very good chance that Carolina would trade out of this spot with a team coveting Jones. I just could not justify slotting Jones any lower. Personally, I have no idea why so many people are coveting Lotulelei. To me, he is by far, the most overhyped player in the draft. I don't think he's an elite player and I think he'll flop in the NFL. |
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NIKEJWN
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2515
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Not a big fan of this draft at all. I am ok with Allen bc we are put in a tough spot with the top three QBs off the board. WR is a big need so thats fine, but after that it gets very confusing. EJ Manuel is not a 2nd rd pick in my opinion. I am an FSU fan and just do not see him with that capability. He is very inaccurate and just doesnt have that it factor on his arm. He does have good mobility but to take him in rd 2 he should be starting for us and I dont see that. I would much rather us wait and get a QB in rd 3 or 4 someone like a Murray or Glennon. Also someone else mentioned it but LB has to be addressed in the first 3 rds. I dont know who else is avaible but we need one badly. The rest of it is ehhh at best.
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TheOsprey
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 7921
Location: In a van, down by the river.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| I took many suggestions into account and the new revisions are posted on page 1. |
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TommyC376
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 10171
Location: Capital Wasteland
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Eww I stopped reading after Aaron Murry in the 3rd. Dude is trash.
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TheOsprey
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TommyC376 wrote: | | Eww I stopped reading after Aaron Murry in the 3rd. Dude is trash. |
Murray is one of the most polished QB's in the draft. I'd take him over some QB's being mentioned in round 1. |
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TommyC376
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 10171
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| TheOsprey wrote: | | TommyC376 wrote: | | Eww I stopped reading after Aaron Murry in the 3rd. Dude is trash. |
Murray is one of the most polished QB's in the draft. I'd take him over some QB's being mentioned in round 1. |
He is a game manager. Did you see his performance against Tennessee last week? He looked lost. I'm not a fan.
My Favorite QB in this draft is Tyler Wilson followed closely by Geno Smith.
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TheOsprey
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 7921
Location: In a van, down by the river.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TommyC376 wrote: | | TheOsprey wrote: | | TommyC376 wrote: | | Eww I stopped reading after Aaron Murry in the 3rd. Dude is trash. |
Murray is one of the most polished QB's in the draft. I'd take him over some QB's being mentioned in round 1. |
He is a game manager. Did you see his performance against Tennessee last week? He looked lost. I'm not a fan.
My Favorite QB in this draft is Tyler Wilson followed closely by Geno Smith. |
Tyler Wilson is the most overrated QB in the draft. I see Mark Sanchez written all over him. Besides, Wilson will be gone, when you pick. |
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Jetsman82
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 19850
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| As much as I'm not a fan of Wilson, I have to like the thought of trying to get a franchise QB. The rest is pretty good. I don't know a whole lot about a lot of those guys, but on a positional basis, it's good. Perhaps hit OL in the 3rd instead of RB, but either way works. |
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tdfast
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 11186
Location: Edmonton
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice Tampa draft. Get some secondary help and some pass rush. Both are in rough shape now. |
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muncy54
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| If Dallas picks Denard Robinson over Tavon Austin Da'Rick Rodgers Stedman Bailey and Ryan Swope i will personally drive to Texas and smack Jerry...Bit love Chance and i think Hunt could be good in the 2nd needs see him play more tho |
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 34435
Location: "Are you hungry, child?" Yes, she thought, but not for food.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Solid Eagles draft
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