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Manti Te'o
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coors


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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Location: DC via ATL
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as an outsider, if yall had Teo and RayRay as your 2 ILBs, that would be scary for all other teams. I really hope Ray is able to make it back quickly as he is able to, and when he comes back hopefully he's at 100%. Ive always loved Ray, and also have always respected the Ravens defense for how they always have been a high motor squad that runs great schemes and just pound their opponents into submission.

-- coors
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
Dark ops wrote:
Ravens, IMO should move up to take this guy as he could become the "impact" replacement ILB for Ray ( yeah we need other pieces on D, but the impact he could have on the course of the D as an "elite" grade player would outweigh that aspect)


Trouble is, how much would they have to give up to move up the 15 - 20 spots they might need to get him?

That seems like a big move just to get an ILB, no matter how good he might end up being. And Te'o won't be able to do much anyway if the DL in front of him is still playing like garbage.

I'd rather the Ravens built from that DL and worked their way back. DE or DT in the 1st, ILB in the 2nd.

I've said it before, if they could gather some more draft picks through trades, prior to this year's draft, then they might have the ammunition to go after a top 15 pick. But I think the Ravens have too many needs in the draft to go giving up quality picks just to get one player.

This. Te'O is projected to be a top 10 pick, 15 at the least. If we're going to trade up for him, we might as well just go the extra mile and trade up for either Star-Lo or Hankins and have two utterly dominant defensive tackles in a 43 and 2 athletic pass rushing space stuffers at our DE spots in a 34. Te'Os' impact would pale in comparison.
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95lloyd


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:


That said, this is all moot anyway as Te'O isn't likely getting by Steelers or the Bengals in the draft.

That's assuming those teams are drafting before you and I wouldn't bet on that at this point in the season.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

95lloyd wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:


That said, this is all moot anyway as Te'O isn't likely getting by Steelers or the Bengals in the draft.

That's assuming those teams are drafting before you and I wouldn't bet on that at this point in the season.


While I wouldn't bet my 401k on the Ravens to finish ahead of the Steelers in the standings, your timing is interesting.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

95lloyd wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:


That said, this is all moot anyway as Te'O isn't likely getting by Steelers or the Bengals in the draft.

That's assuming those teams are drafting before you and I wouldn't bet on that at this point in the season.

So like I said, Te'O was a moot point as he won't get past the Steelers or Bengals in the draft. Cool Laughing
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say if Ozzie and pull off some magic and trade up for Manti, do it, and do it without any questions asked.

You guys see what the Niners are able to do with 2 stud linebackers, and now imagine if we had Ellerbe (who seems to be developing into one of those) AND Manti Te'o, playing behind a HEALTHY Ngata, Jones, and McPhee (at this point I want Ngata moved to NT because Cody and Ma'ake suck. Either that or switch a 4-3 defense and let Ngata tear up those gaps with McPhee and Art Jones.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I say if Ozzie and pull off some magic and trade up for Manti, do it, and do it without any questions asked.

You guys see what the Niners are able to do with 2 stud linebackers, and now imagine if we had Ellerbe (who seems to be developing into one of those) AND Manti Te'o, playing behind a HEALTHY Ngata, Jones, and McPhee (at this point I want Ngata moved to NT because Cody and Ma'ake suck. Either that or switch a 4-3 defense and let Ngata tear up those gaps with McPhee and Art Jones.


Disagree wholeheartedly with the "do it and do it without any questions asked" -- that's the surefire way to set your team back.

Stick to the script -- right player, right price. Manti is vaulting himself near the top 10, it's going to take way too much to trade up. The fact that your desired lineup consists of a UDFA in Ellerbe, a 6th round pick in Jones, and a 5th round pick in McPhee just goes to show you that it's about finding the right player at the right price, not splurging for a big name guy. Hell, even Ngata we waited on until 12th (though we moved up 1 spot to secure him).
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I say if Ozzie and pull off some magic and trade up for Manti, do it, and do it without any questions asked.

You guys see what the Niners are able to do with 2 stud linebackers, and now imagine if we had Ellerbe (who seems to be developing into one of those) AND Manti Te'o, playing behind a HEALTHY Ngata, Jones, and McPhee (at this point I want Ngata moved to NT because Cody and Ma'ake suck. Either that or switch a 4-3 defense and let Ngata tear up those gaps with McPhee and Art Jones.


Disagree wholeheartedly with the "do it and do it without any questions asked" -- that's the surefire way to set your team back.

Stick to the script -- right player, right price. Manti is vaulting himself near the top 10, it's going to take way too much to trade up. The fact that your desired lineup consists of a UDFA in Ellerbe, a 6th round pick in Jones, and a 5th round pick in McPhee just goes to show you that it's about finding the right player at the right price, not splurging for a big name guy. Hell, even Ngata we waited on until 12th (though we moved up 1 spot to secure him).


Yeah, I bet the Falcons really regret giving up those draft picks for Julio Jones Laughing
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I say if Ozzie and pull off some magic and trade up for Manti, do it, and do it without any questions asked.

You guys see what the Niners are able to do with 2 stud linebackers, and now imagine if we had Ellerbe (who seems to be developing into one of those) AND Manti Te'o, playing behind a HEALTHY Ngata, Jones, and McPhee (at this point I want Ngata moved to NT because Cody and Ma'ake suck. Either that or switch a 4-3 defense and let Ngata tear up those gaps with McPhee and Art Jones.


Disagree wholeheartedly with the "do it and do it without any questions asked" -- that's the surefire way to set your team back.

Stick to the script -- right player, right price. Manti is vaulting himself near the top 10, it's going to take way too much to trade up. The fact that your desired lineup consists of a UDFA in Ellerbe, a 6th round pick in Jones, and a 5th round pick in McPhee just goes to show you that it's about finding the right player at the right price, not splurging for a big name guy. Hell, even Ngata we waited on until 12th (though we moved up 1 spot to secure him).


Yeah, I bet the Falcons really regret giving up those draft picks for Julio Jones Laughing


2010: "Yeah, I bet the Jets really regret giving up those picks for Sanchez"

It's a tried and true method -- you don't sacrifice long term success for short term gain, which is exactly what you'd be doing with trading up that far for Te'o. You get the better player in the short term, but you hurt your team long term by missing out on the picks that fill out your roster -- you know, the McPhee, Jones, Webb, Pitta, etc.

It's much more flashy and "fun" to give away picks to get the big name guy -- but it's not what works best. It's why you don't see the elite teams in the league doing it, and the teams that do and it works out only stay elite for a year or two and then fizzle away.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Sanchez never was and never will be ever on the same level that Julio Jones was and is.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Mark Sanchez never was and never will be ever on the same level that Julio Jones was and is.

But its not about Julio Jones... its about Ozzie.

Many people like to say that the Falcons WON that trade, but they're simply ill-advised. They only won that trade because the Cleveland front office was incompetent and couldn't make proper use of their pieces. If you put Ozzie in that same situation, you'd probably have the Cleveland Browns at least 3rd in the division pushing for a playoff spot.

Julio Jones also has durability issues. Look at it like this, they traded multiple picks for one player (can't remember how many- let's say 4). So now it Jones goes down for six games in a season (which considering his history is very possible) you lose elite production for six games that you have to make up elsewhere on your roster... which is minus 3 potential pieces. Let's say elite production is equal to 5Y for a given team. You're losing 5Y x 6. This is 30Y of value lost in a league that is a close as it gets in parity.

OR you could have a team with 4 impact performers, two of which could give you very good production and two of which can be solid starting options/very good depth... Let's say very good players are equal to 3Y and solid players are 1Y... you could lose one very good player for 6 games and still have 30Y of value going for your squad. Or you could lose both of your solid players and still have more going for you than the production elite player gives you. And the longer each squad is healthy the bigger the value gap between elite production and a package deal of "right player, right price" additions. Over 16 games we're talking a difference of 48 value points towards winning football games.

So generally speaking, I'm not giving up a lot of picks to move up for an elite player, unless he moves into the range where his value exceeds what we'd be losing. Usually a 1st and 3rd is the best package I'd be willing to put together for a player... and he'd have to be pretty special.
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santiagomn8


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why cant we trade up this would be a great year to do so we should get a plethora of picks for all our free agents lost and as everyone points out we get such great value in later rounds so why not trade up for a great defensive player and more importantly a great leader and then trust in ozzie to do his thing and pick up great value in the later rounds
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Ravens could trade up a little, as long as they managed to garner a few more picks to play with. But trading up from 26 (ish) to top 10 would be too costly, and perhaps not smart for the reasons already listed.

They’d have to give up too much to ask a team like the Jets or Cardinals to move back fifteen or sixteen places. Because those teams have clear needs that they have to address in the draft, and they’ll want their top 10 picks in every round to count.

I’d love to have Te’o in a Ravens jersey, but realistically, it ain’t happening. All I want now is that he doesn’t go to an AFC North rival. And with the way he’s playing, that won’t happen unless the Browns pick him early. He probably won’t fall to either the Bengals or Steelers. And if he looks like he might, then the Ravens could trade up because it would only require moving a few spots.

There are other great defensive players in the draft that the Ravens could focus on with their first couple of picks. Players more likely to fall further due to the strength in depth of their position.

Yeah, the Falcons are patting themselves on the back over giving up so much for Julio Jones, but how much is that going to end up costing them in years to come? What happens next year when Jones gets injured, and all they have is Roddy White (because Gonzalez has retired and Turner is seriously on the decline)? Suddenly Matt Ryan won’t be looking quite as elite as people have been proclaiming him and the Falcons will struggle because they don’t have the depth they need.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

santiagomn8 wrote:
why cant we trade up this would be a great year to do so we should get a plethora of picks for all our free agents lost and as everyone points out we get such great value in later rounds so why not trade up for a great defensive player and more importantly a great leader and then trust in ozzie to do his thing and pick up great value in the later rounds

No one has said that we shouldn't or can't trade up. Only that, it has to be the right player at the right price. The value has to be there.

We could use our plethora of picks to trade up from the late 2nd to the early 2nd and get increased value there. We've proven to be pretty good at picking up value at the top of the 2nd, so it might make more sense to go that route than to try and trade our day 1 and day 2 picks (possibly more) for a top 15 prospect.

And honestly, I think this year's ILB class is somewhat similar to last year's running back group in that their are a lot of talented players to be had throughout the draft and while the top prospect is pretty darn good, the 2nd tier isn't really THAT much worse. I never really viewed the difference from Trent Richardson to Doug Martin to be so steep. And just like that class, I think the difference between Te'O and the 2nd tier guys won't be so stark in contrast that it should see us trade up for him. I'm perfectly fine with "settling" for an elite ILB like Arthur Brown/CJ Mosley.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Mark Sanchez never was and never will be ever on the same level that Julio Jones was and is.


If that's what you got out of my post, you missed the point entirely.
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