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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
^^^^^

You know, Star really is the best player in the draft so far.

Drafting for need is bad


Just because we don't need another DT, doesn't mean we shouldn't take him.

Rubin is older and not a great pass rusher. Taylor is young and coming off an injury, he had a good rookie campaign but not a great one. Wynn and Hughes have showed flashes.

It's not like we have perennial pro bowlers at DT.

Did anyone else see Star basically rape the USC Interior Oline. The Center of USC is said to be a top prospect.

The dude blows up plays without any real help around him.

I see him being Suh like as a rookie.

I'd take him in a heartbest.

Our run defense and pass rush would both improve dramatically.

He would draw double teams all the time.

Star 13' !!!!!!!


IMO if we are gonna rebuild a D and have a high pick the draft class is more set up for 34 D than a 43 one.

do I want switch back meh. wouldn't mind a hybrid though. That way you could take Star Lotulelei or Jarvis Jones and not have to reach.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiper's newest big board.....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8543675/2013-nfl-draft-new-names-big-moves-big-board

It says insider, but it's free for now. Just an fyi for the mods.

Jarvis is 1
Barkley is 2 (no idea why)
Star is 3
Manti is 4
Damontre Moore???? is 5

Kiper is raving about Moore. I'll have to watch some of him. I'm looking primarily for us to have a DE to take in the 1st this year. Hopefully someone can distance themselves from the pack. If not, it's Star time. We could use some Samoan power on that Dline.
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
Kiper's newest big board.....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8543675/2013-nfl-draft-new-names-big-moves-big-board

It says insider, but it's free for now. Just an fyi for the mods.

Jarvis is 1
Barkley is 2 (no idea why)
Star is 3
Manti is 4
Damontre Moore???? is 5

Kiper is raving about Moore. I'll have to watch some of him. I'm looking primarily for us to have a DE to take in the 1st this year. Hopefully someone can distance themselves from the pack. If not, it's Star time. We could use some Samoan power on that Dline.


Moore is a good one to watch Nug. He went playing 34 OLB in the Big 12 to 43 DE in the SEC and is leading the nation in sacks.

So he has a position change to deal with and harder conference to deal with and is now leading the nation in sacks. A little acclaim is due IMO.

The only thing he lacks IMO as pass rusher is the ability to bend it around the corner.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DawgSoldier wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Kiper's newest big board.....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8543675/2013-nfl-draft-new-names-big-moves-big-board

It says insider, but it's free for now. Just an fyi for the mods.

Jarvis is 1
Barkley is 2 (no idea why)
Star is 3
Manti is 4
Damontre Moore???? is 5

Kiper is raving about Moore. I'll have to watch some of him. I'm looking primarily for us to have a DE to take in the 1st this year. Hopefully someone can distance themselves from the pack. If not, it's Star time. We could use some Samoan power on that Dline.


Moore is a good one to watch Nug. He went playing 34 OLB in the Big 12 to 43 DE in the SEC and is leading the nation in sacks.

So he has a position change to deal with and harder conference to deal with and is now leading the nation in sacks. A little acclaim is due IMO.

The only thing he lacks IMO as pass rusher is the ability to bend it around the corner.


Hmmm.. I'll def have to check him out.

Do you think he is worthy of a top 5 pick, and do you think he has what it takes to be a Pro Bowl DE?

That is what we need right now
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Star is elite than he should be the pick even though we are deep at def. tackle. Jarvis Jones also in the running. Used to like Sam Montgomery until Luke Joeckel o.t. tex. a and m shut him down.

This draft as far as great players is not very good. Lot of solid players though.

Somebody may still rise up though. Jarvis looked great at the beginning of the college season but has trailed off somewhat. Still like him though.
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freakygeniuskid


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Joined: 04 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
Kiper's newest big board.....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8543675/2013-nfl-draft-new-names-big-moves-big-board

It says insider, but it's free for now. Just an fyi for the mods.

Jarvis is 1
Barkley is 2 (no idea why)
Star is 3
Manti is 4
Damontre Moore???? is 5

Kiper is raving about Moore. I'll have to watch some of him. I'm looking primarily for us to have a DE to take in the 1st this year. Hopefully someone can distance themselves from the pack. If not, it's Star time. We could use some Samoan power on that Dline.


I actually really like the Barkley > Smith ranking.

Last year Barkley was supposed to be a prime consideration for us at #4, maybe even a trade up target over Griffin. Then he decides to not declare and all of a sudden he sucks and I never got the reasoning behind that swing in opinion. Smith has had a great year, but it's been in a gimmick offense with some of the fastest receivers in the country playing against some of the worst defenses in the country. Barkley has played with great WR as well, but he's been facing real defenses.

Still think that if you're looking QB in this draft, Barkley is the #1 target. Not saying I want him for us, just saying that if we're sitting at #1 in February, my bet is that it's Barkley people are calling us about, not Smith.

I'd be okay with any of those four defenders at #2, if we were to take Star, I would hope we'd trade Rubin for something good.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but he's been facing real defenses


Like who?
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Quote:
but he's been facing real defenses


Like who?


Was thinking the same thing
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DawgSoldier


Joined: 30 Oct 2007
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Location: Medina OH
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
DawgSoldier wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Kiper's newest big board.....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8543675/2013-nfl-draft-new-names-big-moves-big-board

It says insider, but it's free for now. Just an fyi for the mods.

Jarvis is 1
Barkley is 2 (no idea why)
Star is 3
Manti is 4
Damontre Moore???? is 5

Kiper is raving about Moore. I'll have to watch some of him. I'm looking primarily for us to have a DE to take in the 1st this year. Hopefully someone can distance themselves from the pack. If not, it's Star time. We could use some Samoan power on that Dline.


Moore is a good one to watch Nug. He went playing 34 OLB in the Big 12 to 43 DE in the SEC and is leading the nation in sacks.

So he has a position change to deal with and harder conference to deal with and is now leading the nation in sacks. A little acclaim is due IMO.

The only thing he lacks IMO as pass rusher is the ability to bend it around the corner.


Hmmm.. I'll def have to check him out.

Do you think he is worthy of a top 5 pick, and do you think he has what it takes to be a Pro Bowl DE?

That is what we need right now


Moore and Werner are my top DE's right now. Are they worthy of a top 5 pick? Right now, no....but There is A LOT of events for them to improve there status between now and the draft. The reason I say no isn't I haven't seen enough of them to be comfortable in saying yes.
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pnies20


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 6937
Location: Nashville through Erie, PA
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

freakygeniuskid wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Kiper's newest big board.....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8543675/2013-nfl-draft-new-names-big-moves-big-board

It says insider, but it's free for now. Just an fyi for the mods.

Jarvis is 1
Barkley is 2 (no idea why)
Star is 3
Manti is 4
Damontre Moore???? is 5

Kiper is raving about Moore. I'll have to watch some of him. I'm looking primarily for us to have a DE to take in the 1st this year. Hopefully someone can distance themselves from the pack. If not, it's Star time. We could use some Samoan power on that Dline.


I actually really like the Barkley > Smith ranking.

Last year Barkley was supposed to be a prime consideration for us at #4, maybe even a trade up target over Griffin. Then he decides to not declare and all of a sudden he sucks and I never got the reasoning behind that swing in opinion. Smith has had a great year, but it's been in a gimmick offense with some of the fastest receivers in the country playing against some of the worst defenses in the country. Barkley has played with great WR as well, but he's been facing real defenses.

Still think that if you're looking QB in this draft, Barkley is the #1 target. Not saying I want him for us, just saying that if we're sitting at #1 in February, my bet is that it's Barkley people are calling us about, not Smith.

I'd be okay with any of those four defenders at #2, if we were to take Star, I would hope we'd trade Rubin for something good.


Its weird you say that. I have been thinking about the prospect of trading Rubin. He is above average but I think he's a top 5, 3-4 nose. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a late 1st or early 2nd for him. He's in his prime.

We need to find a way to stop the run. When people like Vic Ballard can average 4 yards/carry its BAD. If trading Rubin and drafting Star turns our run D around, fine. I'd rather take T'eo
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pnies20 wrote:
freakygeniuskid wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Kiper's newest big board.....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8543675/2013-nfl-draft-new-names-big-moves-big-board

It says insider, but it's free for now. Just an fyi for the mods.

Jarvis is 1
Barkley is 2 (no idea why)
Star is 3
Manti is 4
Damontre Moore???? is 5

Kiper is raving about Moore. I'll have to watch some of him. I'm looking primarily for us to have a DE to take in the 1st this year. Hopefully someone can distance themselves from the pack. If not, it's Star time. We could use some Samoan power on that Dline.


I actually really like the Barkley > Smith ranking.

Last year Barkley was supposed to be a prime consideration for us at #4, maybe even a trade up target over Griffin. Then he decides to not declare and all of a sudden he sucks and I never got the reasoning behind that swing in opinion. Smith has had a great year, but it's been in a gimmick offense with some of the fastest receivers in the country playing against some of the worst defenses in the country. Barkley has played with great WR as well, but he's been facing real defenses.

Still think that if you're looking QB in this draft, Barkley is the #1 target. Not saying I want him for us, just saying that if we're sitting at #1 in February, my bet is that it's Barkley people are calling us about, not Smith.

I'd be okay with any of those four defenders at #2, if we were to take Star, I would hope we'd trade Rubin for something good.


Its weird you say that. I have been thinking about the prospect of trading Rubin. He is above average but I think he's a top 5, 3-4 nose. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a late 1st or early 2nd for him. He's in his prime.

We need to find a way to stop the run. When people like Vic Ballard can average 4 yards/carry its BAD. If trading Rubin and drafting Star turns our run D around, fine. I'd rather take T'eo


Sadly trades like that rarely get value.

I doubt we would get a late 1st for him. I wish though
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freakygeniuskid


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Quote:
but he's been facing real defenses


Like who?


Was thinking the same thing


I'm having trouble finding passing defense stats that are legible, if somebody could give me a hand with that I would appreciate it.

From what I've found, it appears that Utah, Washington, Syracuse, and Cal are all better pass defenses than Texas which is the second best WV has faced, and Utah/Washington/Syracuse are all as good as Kansas State which is the best pass defense WV has faced. So basically Barkley has faced four decent pass defenses (five if you include Stanford who is rated lower because of good competition so far), WV has faced two. Not saying either have had GOOD competition, Barkley's just hasn't been quite as atrocious.

Another thing I meant to include in my post is the style of offense. Barkley is playing in a pro-style offense, whereas Geno Smith is playing in the Dana Holgorsen Texas Tech/Houston/OK State air raid offense.

Now I don't want to dismiss Geno Smith, I think he's a good QB prospect and were we in need of one I would be fine getting him, I think his cmp % has been fantastic and is very impressive. I just feel like when you look at the two of them and their total production, offense they played in, competition they have faced, etc. I think Barkley will be the favorite for the top pick come draft time. Could definitely be wrong, that's just my feeling. I think we pulled a Locker on Barkley, where he was a favorite for a top pick, didn't come out, gave everyone time to dwell on his flaws and has now dropped in the public eye, I just don't think that will affect GMs.
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pnies20


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nugpimpen wrote:
pnies20 wrote:
freakygeniuskid wrote:
nugpimpen wrote:
Kiper's newest big board.....


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8543675/2013-nfl-draft-new-names-big-moves-big-board

It says insider, but it's free for now. Just an fyi for the mods.

Jarvis is 1
Barkley is 2 (no idea why)
Star is 3
Manti is 4
Damontre Moore???? is 5

Kiper is raving about Moore. I'll have to watch some of him. I'm looking primarily for us to have a DE to take in the 1st this year. Hopefully someone can distance themselves from the pack. If not, it's Star time. We could use some Samoan power on that Dline.


I actually really like the Barkley > Smith ranking.

Last year Barkley was supposed to be a prime consideration for us at #4, maybe even a trade up target over Griffin. Then he decides to not declare and all of a sudden he sucks and I never got the reasoning behind that swing in opinion. Smith has had a great year, but it's been in a gimmick offense with some of the fastest receivers in the country playing against some of the worst defenses in the country. Barkley has played with great WR as well, but he's been facing real defenses.

Still think that if you're looking QB in this draft, Barkley is the #1 target. Not saying I want him for us, just saying that if we're sitting at #1 in February, my bet is that it's Barkley people are calling us about, not Smith.

I'd be okay with any of those four defenders at #2, if we were to take Star, I would hope we'd trade Rubin for something good.


Its weird you say that. I have been thinking about the prospect of trading Rubin. He is above average but I think he's a top 5, 3-4 nose. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a late 1st or early 2nd for him. He's in his prime.

We need to find a way to stop the run. When people like Vic Ballard can average 4 yards/carry its BAD. If trading Rubin and drafting Star turns our run D around, fine. I'd rather take T'eo


Sadly trades like that rarely get value.

I doubt we would get a late 1st for him. I wish though


Normally I would agree but 3-4 nose is a prime position. It would be just below QB and LT, IMO.

Also, Damontre Moore will end up at 15 if he keeps it up.
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roger murdock


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a draft with this little talent I might even consider guys like War mack and Teo top five even though it goes against everything I believe in draft related. I think they will both be stars nd I'm not seeing many others in this draft. War mack is everything decastro was hyped as and more.
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ReggieCamp


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the top of this draft doesn't look too hot right now. Hopefully, things change, and a few guys start to separate from the pack. Right now, it looks like a muddled mess of good but not great prospects. Assuming we couldn't trade down, I'd probably take Jones right now, but I wouldn't be thrilled with it. He's not exactly lighting it up this year, and he's been fighting injuries.

By the way, thanks for tracking this stuff, Druid.
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